Is it Eisner's Fault?

[mrtoadslastride]

Thanks for the info Voice! The obvious question then is would the core parts of Disney (the studios, and the parks) be any worse off if they were owned by another company? I have seen this debated on the boards before with no clear answer. Who would be big enough to swallow Disney, Microsoft, AOL-TW? I am not necessarily against Disney being purchased, I don't think Universal has been hurt (although the new attractions they just announced may prove me wrong). I would be against a merger, those deals never seem to work out as you usually just multiply each companies problems - see Compaq/HP. It usually takes the new company a couple of years to eliminate redundant systems as well.

 

[PKS44]

The problem is attitude- innovation was the force behind Disney success-
a desire to do something new and impossible that HAD captured the market and its imagination...now we get cost cutting and copies. Retreads and see the results.

I like Aladdin the ride, but it is not innovative. Is it helping the parks?
I enjoyed AKL, but it felt like a weak, uninspired ripoff of WL, not something truly new. How much are they getting to stay there? Under $200 a night? For a deluxe????
I enjoyed Test Track, but it felt underdeveloped. Epcot attendence is falling.
Sequels...nuff said.
WWTBAM-4 nights a week-why bother coming up with 3 hours of new programming? Oops now you've got less than nothing!)
AK-underdeveloped by design-under attended as a result...
DCA-ditto

The focus has become create profits-instead of create wonder. As a result, you will see neither.
The bogus argument that this is a result of a downturned economy is hard to justify if you look to Japan...in the midst of an economy that for the last 10 years makes our economy look booming-OLC builds an incredibly expensive park and are raking in the dough! Innovation first- profits will follow.
Somehow investing money in successful parks instead of failed internet ventures and bad cable networks seems to me to be better management -maybe it is just a Japanese thing...JMO...
Paul

 

[Peter Pirate]

But while I'm sure I'm on that list, I too take offense. I have my distinct worries about Disney as evidenced many times by posts, I just happen to have a different, more positive approach to what I see (good or bad). If I saw things under the same light as many of my Car three friends, I would lose all desire to go to Disney, talk about Disney or think about Disney...Thant's just the way I am. So my positive outlook keeps me happy versus a negative outlook which would have me out of the Disney camp altogether. Not to mention that without a few of us vocal car 1 & 2 'ers there'd be very little actual disscussion going on here...

By the way, if I am on that list I'm hiring Scoop...

 

[barreloflaughs]

Once upon a time I worked for a big garbage company.

They were the best damn garbage company in the world. Our customers loved us. Wall Street loved us. Everyone was very happy.

One day the executives of the company decided they didn't want to be just a garbage hauler anymore. They decided they wanted "To be the world's leading environmental services company". They spent a great deal of time and money expanding their garbage company into every imaginable aspect of the environmental business....consulting, site remediation, water treatment, asbestos removal, design and construction....you name it, they bought it. They didn't know how to run these companies but it didn't matter....we had our vision..."To be the world's leading environmental services company".

To make a (very) long story short.....they failed.... miserably....their stock plummeted and all hell broke loose. No one was happy anymore....the executives whose egos led us down the path fell by the wayside and the company was sold to one of their smaller competitors who converted us back into......

a big, sucessful garbage company.

There are a lot of things about this little story which make me think of the Walt Disney Co. under the reign of Eisner. I think his ego has corrupted the vison of the company....he has led the company into business ventures where they have 'no business' being and the 'core business' (imagination/theme resorts/feature animation/customer service) has suffered as a result. I think it will get worse before it gets better...and I only hope that the end result is a Walt Disney Co. which again focuses on their former strengths.

barrel of laughs

 

[Peter Pirate]

Now that post wasn't funny at all!

But you do bring interesting points forward, the problem being the growth Disney desired was the only choice to keep themselves independent. Now the argument as to whether Disney is truly independet now or would a takeover really change things is a different topic...But to current management (and shareholders) obviously being independent is very important.

 

[mrtoadslastride]

Great post Barrel!!!

Peter, I agree that Disney had no choice if they wanted to stay independent, but for the parts of the company we all love (parks and studio) would there situation be any worse if they had been gobbled up by a larger corporation. I would argue that by growing to the point Disney has, the parks have in essence been gobbled up by a larger company (just one of their own making).

Could Disney made it as just the parks and studios if they followed the model of Apple Computer? While there market share is not near what it used to be they still pump out great products that have a magic of their own. Apple has also managed to remain media darling, unlike Disney, even while there market share is shrinking.

 

[DisDuck]

Rose-Colored Glasses firmly in place so as to reduce sun glare while driving Car#1. If you I see makes me happy. If what I experience makes me smile. If my nephew and nieces (coming along for my June trip) think its 'cool' and magically. Then who cares about Eisner & Company. What I have found over the years of my travels to WDW and DL/DCA and my presence on DIS is that most of what we observe is subjective not objective.


Let you know the magic after I get back.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Welcome back DisDuck...I'm very happy all is well.

As for you opinions, I'm always happy to fall in line with them and once again, I think I will!

 

[mrtoadslastride]

When I go to the parks I go with my rose colored glasses firmly in place and I enjoy every minute. However, the reason I jumped into car 3 is because I fear for a time when the magic is completely gone. When enough Dinorama's have been added, and the price gouging becomes unbearable. At that point my 40 year investment in DVC will be flushed down the toilet, and I will not return to WDW.

PS. Glad your surgery went well!!!

 

[Bstanley]

Oh man, I wish I'd been paying attention yesterday! I missed this whole sub-thread spin-off thing!

Speaking as a schizophrenic Eisner apologist I should've been in on this thread all day long!

I Imagine I would be considered an apologist for the big ME because I really do believe that he 'rescued' Disney from the jaws of almost certain destruction and turned it into a financial powerhouse that made movies I loved to watch with my kids, parks we loved to visit, resorts we loved to stay at, attractions we loved to go on, blah blah blah. I'm not naive enough to think he did it all by himself - his partner for the first 10 years was a true gem for example (and there were other superb people involved), but I still give the big ME much credit for all that happened from 1984 to 1997.

And that's where I go schizo...

From 1998 till now I figure he's been in a slump, batting maybe .250 instead of .500, I mean there are still things being done that I liked - movies, parks, attractions, resorts, etc... But there have been some REAL stinkers, especially lately.

I tend to agree with "barreloflaughs". There was a time when I think ME was sufficiently intrigued by the 'Disney' side of the business to focus on it, pick the best people to run it, etc... But now he seems more interested in being a Media Mogul.

I am still glad he came to Disney when he did - I still think he did great things for many years - I am just not sure about the future.

 

[DisOrBust]

Correct me if I am wrong...But is not TDS mostly "owned and operated" by another company? As well as DLP? So why would it be a horrible event IF Disney was bought and "broken up"? Just maybe the "core Business" as mentioned would benefit and imagineering could begin again. It would be away for the "core business" to get the monkey off its back (ie ABC), just a thought......

I know you all think another "spinner" is a cheap excuse for a "new" attraction at WDW and it very well maybe. However, I as a mom of a short 4yo appreciate an attraction SHE can go on. For her it is "splash mountain". Without these "cheap spinners" my 4yo would not be getting much for HER price of admission. Sometimes I think you executive types forget the "little people" in the world and WHO the parks were intended for in the first place! Try to think like a 4yo..would you rather ride on a majic carpet in Agrabah with your favorite princess or on a coaster getting barb-b-qued by a dragon!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Speaking as a schizophrenic Eisner apologist I should've been in on this thread all day long!

Welcome to the club!!! You will find there is no sanity when it comes to Disney!!!

I Imagine I would be considered an apologist for the big ME because I really do believe that he 'rescued' Disney from the jaws of almost certain destruction and turned it into a financial powerhouse …

As did I when I first came to these boards. And then that little voice kept chirping in my ear. And I found that my worst Disney fears were true!! Ei$ner is inept! Pure and simple. And he always has been.

From 1998 till now I figure he's been in a slump, batting maybe .250 instead of .500

If you listen to that little voice (that some call another) you will see that the people truly responsible for the good things have been leaving. And at the same rate that they leave, Ei$ner has more and more control. And that just happens to coincide with the really rotten Ei$ner stuff. There’s no one there to hold him in check any longer. Or tell him no. The emperor really doesn’t have any clothes and there’s no one to tell him he’s naked.

No. Ei$ner hasn’t changed at all. He’s still the same old anti-Walt kind of guy he’s always been. It's just that we're seeing more and more of his... his... (I guess you'd call it)... Vision!


SCOOP!!! I heard you the first time!!!!

 

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by thedscoop
...as long as OKW exists, your money was well spent...just remember, my friend, all is well at the Gurgling Suitcase!

We really enjoy the Boardwalk, but we haven't tried OKW yet. We are going to try out VWL this fall. Whichever part of Disney DVC falls under is certainly doing a great job managing it!!!The whole "Welcome Home" thing seems a little corney until you experience it yourself. I guess if the I get disenchanted (and admittedly it would take alot for this to occur) with the parks to the point of not wanting to visit them I can always use my WDW trips to hit the Links!!!

 

[Another Voice]

Cruise lines, broadcast networks, publishing companies, music labels, cable channels, sports teams and Broadway musical have nothing to do with keeping the company independent. None of those businesses were started or purchased for that purpose – not even close. The expansion of Disney is fueled solely by someone trying to play Major Media Mogul - Master of The Universe.

Keeping Disney independent was accomplished by locking up oodles of stock with the Bass Brothers, Shamrock, Saudi oil sheiks and large institution (non-voting) mutual funds. That was a lesson Roy Disney learned in the pre-Eisner days when Disney try to fend off takeovers by buying Gibson Greetings and Arvida. It didn’t work then and everyone knew it. And being big didn’t save TimeWarner from being eaten by AOL when the time came.

Long before Eisner, Disney was the only studio to remain independent. That was in the days when it was just a cartoon studio and an amusement park in Anaheim All the others, big or small, have changed hands many times. It didn’t matter what other businesses they owned or the size of their balance sheet – those things don’t matter. Size has nothing to do with “saving the company”. It’s a matter of people believing that the current management can do a better job than someone else.

 

[Bstanley]

Mr. Landbaron, Sir.

That's it then, I guess it boils down to:

1) The big ME 'understood' Disney and:
a) had excellent help from 1984 until 1997 and mostly good things were done.
b) had lousy help from 1998 til now and mostly bad things were done.

OR

2) The big ME NEVER 'understood' Disney and:
a) had excellent help from 1984 until 1997 and mostly good things were done IN SPITE of him.
b) had excellent help from 1998 til now and mostly bad things were done BECAUSE of him.


Hmmm, I'm just not ready to believe #2. Although I do enjoy listening to other 'voices'.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

2) The big ME NEVER 'understood' Disney and:
a) had excellent help from 1984 until 1997 and mostly good things were done IN SPITE of him.
b) had excellent help from 1998 til now and mostly bad things were done BECAUSE of him.

Not quite. The first two sentences are PERFECT!!! The last however should read:

b) Fired (or made them quit) most of his competent staff and started calling ALL the shots and mostly bad things were done BECAUSE of him.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

That "buck stops here" thing becomes kinda sticky once applied across the board.

No. Not really. But sometimes it takes some time for someone to show his true colors. Now that he's torn away his support system and the true believers in the "Walt" philosophy, we're left with what Ei$ner stands for. Disney®. And that says it all!!

 

[Bob O]

Im glad disdick is doing well!!!
No need to "out" the eisner apologists/worshippers" as they did a good job of outing themselves!!!
Disney has proven by their actions that bigger isnt better!! They are alot bigger but is that adding anything to the bottom line!!! being creative and producing products that people want to see/buy is most important and thats where they are failing. Be it with the movies they have released(pixar excluxed because some want to believe a myth that they are created by disney) or tv shows/products for their stores they are failing. The parks are doing well because of what they have but little has been added to increase their quality(unless of course you live for spinners and other rides that can be found in the most basic of theme parks)(also exclude TDS). And due to eisners lousy dealing disney has alot of debt and has shown no willingness to spruce up the parks unless paid for by a sponsor. The parks will do good based on the legacy left by Walt but if eisner has his way even that may well diminish in time as he bleeds them as the cash cow for his failed endeavors!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Scoop!!! How can I quote you if you don't say anything? Or are you conceding the point? In that case there is room in the car, but I’m still driving!!!

 

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
No. Not really. But sometimes it takes some time for someone to show his true colors. Now that he's torn away his support system and the true believers in the "Walt" philosophy, we're left with what Ei$ner stands for. Disney®. And that says it all!!

How do we know if he is showing his true colors, or if he has allowed "his" success go to his head? In other words did he at one time believe in what Walt stood for and just over time lose it as he came to believe that he had the Midas touch and as he tried to become the Mogul. Perhaps it doesn't really matter as the outcome either is the same, I am just curious.

I guess if one believes that originally he understood the "Magic" then one may hold out hope that it is still possible for him to get it again. On the other hand if you believe he never got it then the only solution is for him to go.