July direct sales

[Sandisw]

My understanding is also, that IF DVD is able to squeeze in 5 vs 4 or 3 guests, then more of the annual operating costs is to be paid by the owners of that resort, regardless of how many is actually occupying the room. This might only impact resorts which has a hotel side and not purely DVC.

One way they determine the DVC owners share of common expenses at a resort that has a hotel side is using occupancy.

So, in theory, that can play a role.

 

[Brian Noble]

We prefer the villa set up.

I say it often: I did not get into timeshares to stay in glorified hotel rooms.

Most other timeshare developers do not even build stand-alone studios except in urban locations where space is at a premium. Even some of those are 1BR suites--for example Marriott's Custom House in Boston isn't really a villa, but it isn't really a hotel room either. And the location is fantastic.

And most owners in those other systems do not seem to prefer smaller units. In Wyndham, for example, the smaller units are almost always the last to book at most resorts.

Things are different with DVC though. Very different.

I think part of it is that DVC has a structural problem in how they assigned points to different villa sizes, and 1BRs are over-pointed vs. studios. At Marriott Grande Vista, another Orlando-area resort, a studio is about 75% the cost of a 1BR. At most DVC resorts a studio is right around half. Disney uses square feet (more or less), while Marriott does not---the MGV studios are about ~410 sq. ft., while the 1BRs are more than double at ~880.

This may be because DVC was pretty early to the points-based game, and others were able to learn from their mistakes.

Some folks also think that DVC owners are fundamentally different than owners in other systems (they are more value-conscious), or that DVC stays are different from other timeshares (more go-go-go than other vacations). I don't think either of those is necessarily true. When we go to non-Disney timeshares, we aren't sitting around in the unit all day. We are at the beach, the local amusement park, hiking, kayaking, seeing the sights, or whatever.

 

[CarolynFH]

1. They get to shift risk at aging resorts that are harder to book to DVC members that are guaranteed to come each year (keep up those quarterly travel numbers).

The DVC members don’t even have to come - whether the DVC villas are filled or not, DVC owners still pay dues, so upkeep and maintenance are still covered:

2. The cost of upkeep and maintenance becomes shared between the resort and DVC members (These resorts from the 80's and 90's are becoming increasingly more expensive to maintain).

 

[Jwaire]

The DVC members don’t even have to come - whether the DVC villas are filled or not, DVC owners still pay dues, so upkeep and maintenance are still covered:

True and they get to rent our rooms if we haven't booked. However, part of mitigating risk is we come back every year. They can count on us.

The last thing Wallstreet wants to hear is your park attendance is down during prime summer months when you just spent $2+ billion dollars building Pandora, Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story Land.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It may be a "winning" strategy, perhaps, but if that is the direction of DVC, count me out...

We prefer the villa set up. In fact, if everyone loved just basic hotel rooms so much, then Disney wouldn't have needed to build Art of Animation the way they did or convert so much of All-Star Music to Family Suites. And that's just the cash rooms...

I agree - for a hotel room I'd just pay cash and not bother with DVC.

Back to one of your earlier posts, I didn't mind so much them using the existing building at VGF but it needed to be gutted and re-done in a villas style and preferably adding a few 1 & 2BR's or at a very minimum being studios - ones that had the kitchenette with a fridge - these beverage coolers and changing the fridges out for ones without a freezer section are a complete downgrade. Even better a super studio with a king bed and even better yet - add a washer/dryer too. Adding the hotel rooms to the existing DVC was not a plus IMO.

Now at PVB it would be nice if it was added as it would finally be doing what was in the original proposal of a resort with all traditional DVC villa types. But at least the current PVB has full on DVC studios.

 

[RichVIII]

As the costs have skyrocketed, it is easy to see why most DVC folk have become so point conscious. I have always felt that the average family with at least have 150 points is far more satisfied in using their membership. While on the Mouse has this data. To have any flexibility in booking, a chance at something larger than a studio, you at least need 150 points. My 4th contract (and at a new resort) was only 50 points and I hate it since I have to be so carefully planned with it. Those who purchased a long time ago and have lots more points, easily can use points for bigger rooms. I know 1BRs are not the best use of points but we love the space and purchased far further back.

 

[BeachClub2014]

As the costs have skyrocketed, it is easy to see why most DVC folk have become so point conscious. I have always felt that the average family with at least have 150 points is far more satisfied in using their membership. While on the Mouse has this data. To have any flexibility in booking, a chance at something larger than a studio, you at least need 150 points. My 4th contract (and at a new resort) was only 50 points and I hate it since I have to be so carefully planned with it. Those who purchased a long time ago and have lots more points, easily can use points for bigger rooms. I know 1BRs are not the best use of points but we love the space and purchased far further back.

This. Studios are fine for a quick trip, but the full kitchen, laundry, and space in a 1-bedroom is so much nicer. They were the primary driver for us first buying DVC.

 

[Cyberc1978]

This. Studios are fine for a quick trip, but the full kitchen, laundry, and space in a 1-bedroom is so much nicer. They were the primary driver for us first buying DVC.

As with everything else in life, nobody does Disney the same. When we visit the parks or enjoy the resorts it’s rarely for an entire week. This is mostly because we stay in studios and even though they are nice they lack the space. The 1br which would be very fine space wise is just too costly. We therefore move offsite to a 2br when we are done with the Disney bubble.

 

[DanCali]

This. Studios are fine for a quick trip, but the full kitchen, laundry, and space in a 1-bedroom is so much nicer. They were the primary driver for us first buying DVC.

That's probably the biggest change for us buying into DVC as long-time owners with Westin and Marriott. With the other systems the premium to go from a studio to a 1BR is more around 20% (Westin/Sheraton) or 30-40% (Marriott) so the larger rooms are the most desired and the first to be grabbed by owners. And even the studios are a lot larger than they are at DVC - more around 500 sq ft, some with a full-size fridge and cooktop. However, with the DVC points charts pricing 1BRs at a 100%+ premium vs Studios many owners' preferences change drastically as they seek to stretch out the value of their points.

With our WDW travel style of short weekend trips and spending most time outside of the room this matters less, and we'll often book studios, even though we're not really used to having 4 in a smallish studio. But it is nice that at least some studios sleep 5, which you don't see in other timeshare systems. Personally, I would love a reallocation of having more expensive studios and less expensive 1BRs (e.g., instead of 15-->30 change it to 18-->27), but if it hasn't happened in 30 years, it won't...

For out stay at Aulani next summer, we did book a 2BR OV but are splitting the week with a few nights at the Marriott nextdoor (it's nice to have that option). Costwise, it's not even close... If I needed to rent the 69 points/night for Aulani 2BR OV from another owner that would cost me around $1300/night. If I needed to rent the Marriott Vacation Club points for the Ko Olina stay (2BR Oceanview Penthouse - top floor) from another owner it'd cost me around $900/night for weekends and $650 for weeknights. That difference adds up quickly!

 

[Cyberc1978]

I would love a reallocation of having more expensive studios and less expensive 1BRs (e.g., instead of 15-->30 change it to 18-->27), but if it hasn't happened in 30 years, it won't...

They tried that a few years back and got a lot of push back from the DVC community. DVD can’t or at least that is the thinking based upon the POS that if you increase points for studios in one season then you need to lower it in another for the same type unit.

Additionally total number of points for the resort must remain the same based on a specific year or at least within a small margin.

 

[RuntheMouse]

This. Studios are fine for a quick trip, but the full kitchen, laundry, and space in a 1-bedroom is so much nicer. They were the primary driver for us first buying DVC.

There’s only 2 of us traveling so studios are fine for us. We do splurge on 1 bedrooms for marathon weekend. We even grabbed a 1 bedroom in HH the week after to recover.

 

[DanCali]

They tried that a few years back and got a lot of push back from the DVC community. DVD can’t or at least that is the thinking based upon the POS that if you increase points for studios in one season then you need to lower it in another for the same type unit.

I read in some threads that they tried it with studios vs bungalows at PVB. I can see how that would get severe pushback from owners when the only option at that resort is a studio or bungalow at 7x the cost. But did they actually try it for studios vs. 1BRs? I don't know if that would be as unpopular, but if it's not allowed then it's not allowed.

If that was something they wanted to do, they certainly had the opportunity with new resorts like RIV and VDH, but even at those resorts the premium from studio to 1BR is ~100% (maybe just a bit less on average with the preferred views at VDH).

 

[BeachClub2014]

Yes, 1-bedrooms are significantly more points than a studio, but the amenities and availability make them worth it. Love them 1-bedroom villas!

 

[DanCali]

Yes, 1-bedrooms are significantly more points than a studio, but the amenities and availability make them worth it. Love them 1-bedroom villas!

For sure - not complaining about the amenities of 1BR vs Studio. Just the premium of 100% in points required to get there!

There are also vast differences in the Marriott system between amenities at studios ("guest rooms") and 1BRs, but the extra cost with points is just 30%-40% more. The studios at Sheraton/Westin are more functional (having a full-size fridge and cooktops in the kitchenette) and there it's just a 20% difference. Even DVC's own cash rates generally reflect just a 30%-40% premium between studios and 1BRs (see example below for some random summer 2024 dates I picked at RIV). So why is it a 100% premium with DVC points? It is what it is, and everyone is used to that, but seems totally out of whack with any other comparison I come up with...

 

[BeachClub2014]

For sure - not complaining about the amenities of 1BR vs Studio. Just the premium of 100% in points required to get there!

There are also vast differences in the Marriott system between amenities at studios ("guest rooms") and 1BRs, but the extra cost with points is just 30%-40% more. The studios at Sheraton/Westin are more functional (having a full-size fridge and cooktops in the kitchenette) and there it's just a 20% difference. Even DVC's own cash rates generally reflect just a 30%-40% premium between studios and 1BRs (see example below for some random summer 2024 dates I picked at RIV). So why is it a 100% premium with DVC points? It is what it is, and everyone is used to that, but seems totally out of whack with any other comparison I come up with...


View attachment 787250

Believe me; I definitely wish that they were less points!

 

[Jwaire]

Personally, I would love a reallocation of having more expensive studios and less expensive 1BRs (e.g., instead of 15-->30 change it to 18-->27), but if it hasn't happened in 30 years, it won't...

That'd be a huge increase on the majority of the membership, which mostly stays in studios.

Last I looked the average studio per night (factoring out the value season, holiday season and value/limited hard-to-get rooms) at BLT, BRV, CCV, BCV, BWV was ~17 points per night.

RIV comes in around ~18.

SSR, AKV and OKW between 13 and 14.

You start putting studios at 18 points per night starting, there's no point in having DVC. Just pay cash.

 

[DanCali]

That'd be a huge increase on the majority of the membership, which mostly stays in studios.

Last I looked the average studio per night (factoring out the value season, holiday season and value/limited hard-to-get rooms) at BLT, BRV, CCV, BCV, BWV was ~17 points per night.

RIV comes in around ~18.

SSR, AKV and OKW between 13 and 14.

You start putting studios at 18 points per night starting, there's no point in having DVC. Just pay cash.

But does the majority stay in studios because they prefer studios over 1BRs? Or is it mainly because 1BRs cost 100% more? I suspect it's the latter... Everything being equal, most would prefer a 1BR over a studio, unless maybe it's one of the resorts where the studio sleeps 5 and the 1BR 4, and that arrangement was a strong preference.

Take for example, RIV in the summer. Preferred View studio is 21 pts on weekdays and a Preferred View 1BR is 48. pts. That a 130% premium in points! Now suppose the studio was 30 pts and the 1BR was 39 pts, making the premium just 30%... If you assume a cost of $12.50/pt/year ($8.50/pt/year in dues and $4/pt/year to account for the upfront cost amortized over 50 years) that's $375/nt for the studio and $490/nt for the 1BR. If you compare these costs to the screenshot from my prior post, which also excludes taxes, that's still half the cost, so "just pay cash" would probably not be appealing to most. But it would be more appealing to snag a 1BR for 39pts/night if I'd be paying 30 pts/night for the studio as an alternative. And such a reallocation puts things much more in line with the cash rates.

 

[SkampyOne]

But does the majority stay in studios because they prefer studios over 1BRs? Or is it mainly because 1BRs cost 100% more? I suspect it's the latter... Everything being equal, most would prefer a 1BR over a studio, unless maybe it's one of the resorts where the studio sleeps 5 and the 1BR 4, and that arrangement was a strong preference.

Take for example, RIV in the summer. Preferred View studio is 21 pts on weekdays and a Preferred View 1BR is 48. pts. That a 130% premium in points! Now suppose the studio was 30 pts and the 1BR was 39 pts... If you assume a cost of $12.50/pt/year ($8.50/pt/year in dues and $4/pt/year to account for the upfront cost amortized over 50 years) that's $375/nt for the studio and $490/nt for the 1BR. If you compare these costs to the screenshot from my prior post, which also excludes taxes, that's still half the cost, so "just pay cash" would probably not be appealing to most. But it would be more appealing to snag a 1BR for 39pts/night if I'd be paying 30 pts/night for the studio as an alternative. And such a reallocation puts things much more in line with the cash rates.

Will let eithers chime in with their preference, but for me, I prefer the studios because I'm typically travelling by myself, and doing 1-3 night stays so really don't need the bells and whistles of a 1BR. If it's going to cost $500/night, I'll book a hotel room offsite instead.

 

[Sandisw]

But does the majority stay in studios because they prefer studios over 1BRs? Or is it mainly because 1BRs cost 100% more? I suspect it's the latter... Everything being equal, most would prefer a 1BR over a studio, unless maybe it's one of the resorts where the studio sleeps 5 and the 1BR 4, and that arrangement was a strong preference.

Take for example, RIV in the summer. Preferred View studio is 21 pts on weekdays and a Preferred View 1BR is 48. pts. That a 130% premium in points! Now suppose the studio was 30 pts and the 1BR was 39 pts... If you assume a cost of $12.50/pt/year ($8.50/pt/year in dues and $4/pt/year to account for the upfront cost amortized over 50 years) that's $375/nt for the studio and $490/nt for the 1BR. If you compare these costs to the screenshot from my prior post, which also excludes taxes, that's still half the cost, so "just pay cash" would probably not be appealing to most. But it would be more appealing to snag a 1BR for 39pts/night if I'd be paying 30 pts/night for the studio as an alternative. And such a reallocation puts things much more in line with the cash rates.

I believe that DVD uses a square footage model to determine the number of points for the different rooms sizes, at least that is how I read it..it’s Exhibit A in most of the POS.

But, they have to keep in line what the POS already says and the maximum allocation chart that exists. Plus, points are determined by the 2 bedroom lock off so any shift has to align with that.

Sleeping difference aside, the 1 bedroom provides almost double the space, not to mention full kitchen and laundry. so IMO, it makes sense to have the difference it does.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I believe that DVD uses a square footage model to determine the number of points for the different rooms sizes, at least that is how I read it..it’s Exhibit A in most of the POS.

But, they have to keep in line what the POS already says and the maximum allocation chart that exists. Plus, points are determined by the 2 bedroom lock off so any shift has to align with that.

Sleeping difference aside, the 1 bedroom provides almost double the space, not to mention full kitchen and laundry. so IMO, it makes sense to have the difference it does.

We need to stop extolling the virtues of 1-bedroom villas; I don't want any more competition for reservations!