Never thought I'd do it- Cancelled.

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Even if you don`t count us uber fans, I don`t think that most people see Disney as just another theme park. I think the immense popularity of Disney parks, which has constantly defied rising prices, shows that most see Disney as the best -- at least for families. Some see Universal as a worthy rival in terms of quality, but Universal never had the same heavy attendance. Except on weekends, that was always clear to me from the 10-15 wait times for most rides at UOR. Meanwhile, even with their high capaity -- four parks and two water parks and many other things to do at WDW -- Disney is usually slammed.

At least under Iger, I really believe that Disney delivered when it came to the quality of the parks. We started going every year from 2007-2019 and I saw a steady improvement in the attractions. New attractions benefited from high budgets, and leveraged impressive new tech. The addition of several new lands kept us coming back. The only drawback, to me, was that Disney became victims of their own success, with packed parks all year long. That was great for Disney`s bottom line, but, for us frequent visitors, it became a challenge to beat the crowds. Hell, a lot of us made a game of ``beat the crowds``.

Disney has been the industry leader for many years. Regional parks like Six Flags are hilariously cheaper to visit (I pay a comparative pittance for a season pass with meal plan at my local Six Flags park) but Disney still has much higher attendance (yes, Six Flags run amusement parks, not theme parks, but I doubt that most visitors draw such a clear distinction).

My point is that Disney is far more expensive than other park operators, yet still draws by far the biggest crowds. Those are not the results of a company whose parks are seen as just another theme park, in terms of both quality and nostalgia value. Parks all over North America have the same flat rides and hire the same companies to build their coasters. Disney builds unique themed lands and heavily themed rides with elaborate sets and multi-million dollar animatronics. There are few points of comparison.

Not to be contrarian here but really you're still coming at it from being quite a fan here, well if I remove quite a fan I'll put frequent visitor. I'm far from the only one who thinks this way, there's been a lot of posters over the time I've been here who talk about how people they know do a one and done Disney trip out of pure obligation because it's Disney. They don't go because the love Disney, they don't go because Disney to them is filled with magic and whatever. They go because it's seen as the thing to do with kids. It's hard I think for people to look on the other side but really a lot of people just aren't enamored with Disney and certainly would never dream of going yearly like you have. Even for me normally it's about every 6 years to WDW and most of that is a fluke.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy Disney so does my husband but the truth really is for many people Disney is not some glorious place. It's just a theme park. I understand your points of comparison but you're still coming at it from a viewpoint of enjoying going back frequently. If you talk to people who don't hold a high interest in going most are going to shrug and be like "well yeah it's Disney but it's just a theme park". They don't hold it to some high esteem or standard like others. On the point of Disney building all these rides, you might notice a complaint arising that Disney is just replicating rides from other parks or not being inventive enough anymore (boat ride after boat ride, Tron, Rat, Railway being the same thing but different theme as Great Movie Ride, etc). FWIW I love them boat rides lol.

It's always going to be hard to compare attendance. US has 2 Disney parks destinations and countless other amusement parks. By design amusement parks like Six Flags, ones owned by Cedar Fair Entertainment, etc are spread out as they are regional destinations largely. Of course each park is going to have less attendance overall even if you try and compare all the other things. If you spread out Disney to be more regional (well if that had been done decades and decades ago) you'd likely see the same. DLR and WDW would not have the attendance if there were say 2,3,4 more of them scattered throughout the U.S. Wouldn't have much to do with what is at each park and more to do with proximity to get one's fix.

I think I've just spent more time around people who don't go all the time to Disney that I'm presented with a different viewpoint. That said it's something other shares as well. Disney has crafted the art of guilting people into this nostalgic thing. I mean a childhood isn't a childhood unless you've visited a Disney park right? It's okay though honestly. I don't I guess take that to heart. I love Disney but I understand my love for it isn't something shared by everyone.

 

[shawthorne44]

Some see Universal as a worthy rival in terms of quality, but Universal never had the same heavy attendance. Except on weekends, that was always clear to me from the 10-15 wait times for most rides at UOR. Meanwhile, even with their high capaity -- four parks and two water parks and many other things to do at WDW -- Disney is usually slammed.

There is a problem there. Yes, there is four parks and two water parks, while USF has two parks and one water parks. But, look at what is offered within those parks. That one USF waterpark has more attractions than both Disney waterparks combined. Do a similar count on the three non-MK Disney parks combined and compare to both USF parks combined. USF comes out ahead. With Disney having only half the entertainment open, USF is even more ahead. You have to include the attraction dense MK to make Disney come out ahead. What you pointed out with short wait times at USF is a sign of strength of planning and not low attendance. Think back to FPP planning advice. Epcot there was only two worthwhile Tier 1 FPP and two for Tier 2. So the advice was to get RD the Tier 1 ride that you didn't get.

 

[Davey Jones II]

In reference to the two posts above:

Beyond my observations, there are actual numbers. Disney`s attendance numbers have been way ahead for a long time.

And yes, some people are one and done. But there are also a huge number of repeat visitors. You don`t remain the industry leader without that.

As for ride count, I haven`t compared that but, pre-pandemic at least, Disney always offered so much more than rides. To me, the only Universal park that is really a theme park -- as opposed to a nicely decorated collection of attractions -- is IOA.

While I enjoyed my days at Universal, their parks never made the same kind of emotional connection for me.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In reference to the two posts above:

Beyond my observations, there are actual numbers. Disney`s attendance numbers have been way ahead for a long time.

And yes, some people are one and done. But there are also a huge number of repeat visitors. You don`t remain the industry leader without that.

I'm just telling it like it is, like it or not, there are quite a few people who don't share the love of Disney parks like people do on here. My comment was a response to someone who said in a nutshell if Disney continues to do xyz they'll just be seen as just a theme park. My response is it already is seen as just a theme park to a good amount of people. This statement shouldn't be as controversial as it appears it is becoming. Disney holds a special place in my heart but I also understand that does not hold true of others.

 

[DCLMP]

In reference to the two posts above:

Beyond my observations, there are actual numbers. Disney`s attendance numbers have been way ahead for a long time.

And yes, some people are one and done. But there are also a huge number of repeat visitors. You don`t remain the industry leader without that.

As for ride count, I haven`t compared that but, pre-pandemic at least, Disney always offered so much more than rides. To me, the only Universal park that is really a theme park -- as opposed to a nicely decorated collection of attractions -- is IOA.

While I enjoyed my days at Universal, their parks never made the same kind of emotional connection for me.

I agree with that. I love going to Universal for two or three days before visiting WDW or going on a cruise. I'm not sure I would fly all the way to Florida just for Universal. Maybe if I lived closer I would. I really do like the Universal resorts though. They are a much better value than WDW and nicer in a lot of ways. Like you said I don't feel the emotional connection to Universal, but I grew up near Anaheim going to DL as a child so that may be why.

 

[Davey Jones II]

I'm just telling it like it is, like it or not, there are quite a few people who don't share the love of Disney parks like people do on here. My comment was a response to someone who said in a nutshell if Disney continues to do xyz they'll just be seen as just a theme park. My response is it already is seen as just a theme park to a good amount of people. This statement shouldn't be as controversial as it appears it is becoming. Disney holds a special place in my heart but I also understand that does not hold true of others.

As I said...of course there are one and done guests, and people who see it as just another vacation destination. But Disney still gets a LOT of repeat business. You can`t keep filling your parks all year just with first timers.

Given all the hassle, planning and expense of a Disney trip, all those people are returning for a reason.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As I said...of course there are one and done guests, and people who see it as just another vacation destination. But Disney still gets a LOT of repeat business. You can`t keep filling your parks all year just with first timers.

Given all the hassle, planning and expense of a Disney trip, all those people are returning for a reason.

You're talking about something I'm not talking about.

This is what I said

Not to be a realist but TBH that's exactly what a decent amount of people do think, I mean always have thought, I mean long before the pandemic and long before the Chapek. When you actually talk to people NOT highly in love with Disney you usually find a "meh, I mean it's a theme park and all"

I'm not saying people don't love it when they go (there are people who do) but there's quite a lot of people who never did nor ever will see it with the same lights as many of the diehard fans here. People here on this Board typically overestimate the amount of love Disney gets from non-Disney lovers. To many it really is just another theme park, albeit a very pricey one (and long has been to them).

You're coming at it from a perspective of people who already enjoy Disney, who already go back to Disney as a repeat visitor. That's not whom I'm speaking about. All your reasonings are just not of the demographic of whom I'm talking about. I suppose I may need to stress this point "When you actually talk to people NOT highly in love with Disney you usually find a "meh, I mean it's a theme park and all" The conversation wasn't about that Disney has repeat visitors it was about looking at if Disney kept doing what they were doing it would end up seeming like just a theme park to people, my response is it already is to a good amount of people coming from the perspective of non-Disney lovers. Again I don't know why this is becoming as controversial as it appears to be.

 

[twodogs]

What you're describing is literally every other day..Day 2 and day 4 are literally every other day.

We were talking about daily housekeeping as in "Disney isn't doing housekeeping every day", I don't think anyone is under the impression we're talking about full housekeeping or at least I certainly wasn't nor was I referring to top to bottom housekeeping services. Most complaints surround trash removal.

Disney advises:
During Your Stay

Your room will receive light housekeeping service every other day (unless you choose to decline the service). This service will include:

• Removal of trash and used towels
• Replenishment of towels and amenities throughout room and bathroom
• Wiping and cleaning of the vanity and counter surfaces
• Vacuuming, if needed

In addition, housekeeping tools will be cleaned between rooms.

I'm guessing you going through housekeepers individually means they were doing something against protocol.

Disney IS doing housekeeping but not top to bottom housekeeping.

I agree with you that they are doing SOME housekeeping, but for those who have not read this entire thread, I wanted to make the distinction between towels and trash, and pre-COVID housekeeping.

I do not think I asked the housekeepers to go against protocol. I asked for and was told I would receive FULL housekeeping when I checked in. The front desk failed to convey this to housekeeping (per my conversation with the housekeeping manager on duty), so my only option was to discuss directly with the housekeeping staff. I did this, and they were happy to clean the room. I feel that leaving a tip was always the right thing to do for the housekeepers, both pre-COVID and now.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I do not think I asked the housekeepers to go against protocol.

The only reason I said that was because it was not listed as what they would do on their website like stating "if requested.." so if the front desk couldn't accommodate a request and you had to ask each one individually that's where I was coming from. IDK if the other poster who mentioned they were able to request daily housekeeping just did that through the front desk or not or had to flag a housekeeper down. I could see where housekeeping has been advised to stick with Disney's written policy though. Your added information about front desk conveying stuff was not in your other comment so all I had was you saying "I asked for full daily housekeeping and received it, but I had to go through the housekeepers individually each day and tipped generously."

So not going into the tipping conversation because well that tends to never end well but rest assured I was not commenting on that aspect although at first I did read it like you might have been passing more to them to get them to clean your room more fully but then realized my mind was still thinking about Vegas (well old Vegas where you know you slipped some money and got something out of it lol..just a light comment there) as I had just gotten back from there.

for those who have not read this entire thread, I wanted to make the distinction between towels and trash, and pre-COVID housekeeping.

And that's why I also made the distinction too in my comment because they are doing housekeeping, trash, replacement of amenities, switching out towels, and light cleaning are part of housekeeping. Someone could have read your comment and thought wait they aren't doing anything?? But they are just not full bedmaking, covers tucked in, every day stuff. We're sorta both right here , no they aren't doing full service as a norm but they are actually doing specified stuff every other day unless someone declines.
______________

The thing about the gift card stuff though is just that several years prior to the pandemic Disney had already reduced housekeeping services in exchange for a guest getting something out of it. Less housekeeping can't be seen here as just a pandemic cut or an unacceptable nature just because Disney had already been doing this. The pandemic hastens the need to clean rooms less thoroughly and less frequently but they started the gift card thing in summer of 2017 for declining housekeeping starting at the Value resorts. They no longer do the gift card but I doubt anyone expected them to do that forever. That's what prompted me to respond when a poster said that for the housekeeping stuff they should look at offering something, like $5 for mobile ordering. Because well Disney actually did do that just it's old news at this point.

 

[twodogs]

The only reason I said that was because it was not listed as what they would do on their website like stating "if requested.." so if the front desk couldn't accommodate a request and you had to ask each one individually that's where I was coming from. IDK if the other poster who mentioned they were able to request daily housekeeping just did that through the front desk or not or had to flag a housekeeper down. I could see where housekeeping has been advised to stick with Disney's written policy though. Your added information about front desk conveying stuff was not in your other comment so all I had was you saying "I asked for full daily housekeeping and received it, but I had to go through the housekeepers individually each day and tipped generously."

So not going into the tipping conversation because well that tends to never end well but rest assured I was not commenting on that aspect although at first I did read it like you might have been passing more to them to get them to clean your room more fully but then realized my mind was still thinking about Vegas (well old Vegas where you know you slipped some money and got something out of it lol..just a light comment there) as I had just gotten back from there.


And that's why I also made the distinction too in my comment because they are doing housekeeping, trash, replacement of amenities, switching out towels, and light cleaning are part of housekeeping. Someone could have read your comment and thought wait they aren't doing anything?? But they are just not full bedmaking, covers tucked in, every day stuff. We're sorta both right here , no they aren't doing full service as a norm but they are actually doing specified stuff every other day unless someone declines.
______________

The thing about the gift card stuff though is just that several years prior to the pandemic Disney had already reduced housekeeping services in exchange for a guest getting something out of it. Less housekeeping can't be seen here as just a pandemic cut or an unacceptable nature just because Disney had already been doing this. The pandemic hastens the need to clean rooms less thoroughly and less frequently but they started the gift card thing in summer of 2017 for declining housekeeping starting at the Value resorts. They no longer do the gift card but I doubt anyone expected them to do that forever. That's what prompted me to respond when a poster said that for the housekeeping stuff they should look at offering something, like $5 for mobile ordering. Because well Disney actually did do that just it's old news at this point.

Thank you for your thoughtful response, and I hope that our comments collectively help folks who are trying to see what they can expect to be offered, as well as what they may be able to request, depending on the front desk staff and policies at the time of their visit. I think I just long for the days when paying $800+ per night meant that someone other than me would make the beds!! Then I would really feel like I was on vacation! At this point, Disney does not seem on board with bringing it fully back, even at these prices, so we have taken some other vacations recently like Hawaii, where full housekeeping twice daily is still a thing. And I appreciate it so much!

How were the hotels in Vegas (off topic alert!)?

 

[Marthasor]

The only reason I said that was because it was not listed as what they would do on their website like stating "if requested.." so if the front desk couldn't accommodate a request and you had to ask each one individually that's where I was coming from. IDK if the other poster who mentioned they were able to request daily housekeeping just did that through the front desk or not or had to flag a housekeeper down. I could see where housekeeping has been advised to stick with Disney's written policy though. Your added information about front desk conveying stuff was not in your other comment so all I had was you saying "I asked for full daily housekeeping and received it, but I had to go through the housekeepers individually each day and tipped generously."

So not going into the tipping conversation because well that tends to never end well but rest assured I was not commenting on that aspect although at first I did read it like you might have been passing more to them to get them to clean your room more fully but then realized my mind was still thinking about Vegas (well old Vegas where you know you slipped some money and got something out of it lol..just a light comment there) as I had just gotten back from there.


And that's why I also made the distinction too in my comment because they are doing housekeeping, trash, replacement of amenities, switching out towels, and light cleaning are part of housekeeping. Someone could have read your comment and thought wait they aren't doing anything?? But they are just not full bedmaking, covers tucked in, every day stuff. We're sorta both right here , no they aren't doing full service as a norm but they are actually doing specified stuff every other day unless someone declines.
______________

The thing about the gift card stuff though is just that several years prior to the pandemic Disney had already reduced housekeeping services in exchange for a guest getting something out of it. Less housekeeping can't be seen here as just a pandemic cut or an unacceptable nature just because Disney had already been doing this. The pandemic hastens the need to clean rooms less thoroughly and less frequently but they started the gift card thing in summer of 2017 for declining housekeeping starting at the Value resorts. They no longer do the gift card but I doubt anyone expected them to do that forever. That's what prompted me to respond when a poster said that for the housekeeping stuff they should look at offering something, like $5 for mobile ordering. Because well Disney actually did do that just it's old news at this point.

If you are referring to me, I didn’t request full housekeeping at VGF. I expected what was described on WDW’s website (which is what we received at YC in June), but was very surprised when they came to our villa and did full housekeeping everyday (This was a cash reservation).

It doesn’t surprise me that PP had to go through housekeeping to get her request fulfilled. I have been staying at WDW multiple times a year for almost 20 years and if you have any needs or requests related to housekeeping, you need to go through housekeeping which is the case, typically, with any major hotel. Especially at WDW, relying on one department to convey your message to another is often a Sysyphean task. I’ve found the left hand barely speaks to the right at WDW.

 

[Davey Jones II]

You're talking about something I'm not talking about.

This is what I said


You're coming at it from a perspective of people who already enjoy Disney, who already go back to Disney as a repeat visitor. That's not whom I'm speaking about. All your reasonings are just not of the demographic of whom I'm talking about. I suppose I may need to stress this point "When you actually talk to people NOT highly in love with Disney you usually find a "meh, I mean it's a theme park and all" The conversation wasn't about that Disney has repeat visitors it was about looking at if Disney kept doing what they were doing it would end up seeming like just a theme park to people, my response is it already is to a good amount of people coming from the perspective of non-Disney lovers. Again I don't know why this is becoming as controversial as it appears to be.

We could keep up this game of ping pong indefinitely, until one of us gets tired of it and stops posting. I just don`t believe that Disney would get a lot of repeat visitors if ``meh`` was the typical reaction after a Disney vacation. There are a ton of cheaper vacation alternatives.

That being said, I know that this thread may suggest that the loyalty of repeat visitors is eroding. But that remains to be seen in the long run.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We could keep up this game of ping pong indefinitely, until one of us gets tired of it and stops posting. I just don`t believe that Disney would get a lot of repeat visitors if ``meh`` was the typical reaction after a Disney vacation.

That being said, I know that this thread may indicate that the loyalty of repeat visitors may be getting eroded. But that remains to be seen in the long run.

You're not talking about the same thing I am, not sure why you want this to be a competition of who blinks first. Moving along now.

 

[pixiedust2u]

We could keep up this game of ping pong indefinitely, until one of us gets tired of it and stops posting. I just don`t believe that Disney would get a lot of repeat visitors if ``meh`` was the typical reaction after a Disney vacation. There are a ton of cheaper vacation alternatives.

That being said, I know that this thread may suggest that the loyalty of repeat visitors is eroding. But that remains to be seen in the long run.

To support your point…. Though both DH and I did the WDW thing a few times in our childhood and as young adults, we had a good 10 year stretch in young adulthood when we didn’t go and were focused on other things in life. However I always knew I’d return with my kids. We did just that in 2019, and with our 4 & 2 year old did it big. Leading up to the trip I felt a little overwhelmed and also was worried I’d feel nickel and dined and stressed. However, as I proclaimed many of times after that trip it was worth every single penny and every second spent planning. It was THE most magical trip. And although our initial plan was to do it big and then not return for a few years…. We got roped into the magic and returned in 2020 and 2021.
OP I think your point is, there are point is there are families like ours who thought we were going on a “theme park vacation” and got SO much more. We were hooked. And the question remains… with Disneys current state of cutbacks, limited entertainment, genie + issues with the app, 7 am wake up lack of flexibility etc…. Will a family like ours go for the first time and think “wow that was magical when can we return?! And keep returning year after yesr” Or will they be left thinking “meh that was a lot of
stress and money” and be a one and done….

only time and stats will tell!

 

[Mousefan mom]

After all these years, and so many great trips, magical moments, and a lifetime of memories, I never thought I would get to the place where I'm just not excited and looking forward to WDW; but that is where I am right now. Yesterday I did the unthinkable and canceled our February reservation and our 8-night stay at the Yacht Club. I'm just having a hard time getting excited about spending 9K for just the room and park tickets. In addition, this Genie, Genie+, iLL$, slave to a smartphone, no Magical Express, more cutbacks, more add ons for extra money, closures, limited experiences, masks, the uncertainty of the near future of this nearly 2-year pandemic, I have just lost interest.

I guess I'm just getting old and not feeling the magic this time around. I'm sure I'll get flamed and there are some who will say, "Good, fewer people for me." I would say, "Your Welcome." To each their own. I'm not attacking Disney, just that I think they are starting to move in a different direction than I am going. I guess I'll just take some of that money, pack up the truck, attach the boat, and head from N.E. Ohio and find a nice cabin on the lake somewhere in Kentucky, NY, Tenn, or somewhere that's a several-hour drive away and enjoy a quiet and relaxing vacation this time around.

We were booked a long stay in Summer--and never thought I'd do it, but checked out early and asked for a refund. We have began to vacation in other places now--and I'm finding we can do some pretty fantastic vacations for a fraction of the cost of Disney. I was on today after months, thinking of going back at the end of the year--but still seeing the same things (high prices, long lines, no daily room service, many of the restaurants still not opened, etc.). We just had an amazing vacation in Las Vegas with our kids--and we were so impressed there was so much to do with kids out there...we had the same level of happiness we have always had on our Disney trips, just an FYI....pretty mountains and canyons too!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thank you for your thoughtful response, and I hope that our comments collectively help folks who are trying to see what they can expect to be offered, as well as what they may be able to request, depending on the front desk staff and policies at the time of their visit. I think I just long for the days when paying $800+ per night meant that someone other than me would make the beds!! Then I would really feel like I was on vacation! At this point, Disney does not seem on board with bringing it fully back, even at these prices, so we have taken some other vacations recently like Hawaii, where full housekeeping twice daily is still a thing. And I appreciate it so much!

How were the hotels in Vegas (off topic alert!)?

Oh I get it! I know people have talked in the past about hotel pricing, I understand charging a premium but they do take "premium" to a next level lol. I too also wonder what will never come back. It does make me glad that they at least did room renovations on resorts before the pandemic because I'm sure some would have never been done otherwise.

Vegas hotels were great. Back in March we stayed at the Wynn. A few weeks ago we stayed at Bellagio one night and the Encore 2 nights. Honestly I couldn't comment about housekeeping at least from a few weeks ago because we didn't feel the need for the short time we were there but I believe we had it done at the Wynn in March once. I did see the housekeepers though on the floor. Back in March they had a security strip at the Wynn reflecting the room had been cleaned prior to you checking in. A few weeks back the Bellagio nor the Encore did but we know cleaning was done. Both the Wynn and Encore (which are the same entity really) provided 2 individually packaged masks in the room upon arrival. Talk about security, in order to go to the guest elevators you have to scan your key card or show it to the security personnel. At the Encore I believe it was you had to scan your keycard once you got on the elevator to press a floor number and presumably it would only allow you to the floor your room was on. My husband went back to Vegas for work and stayed at Hilton Grand Vacations on the Strip but because he was there 2 nights I doubt he did housekeeping but Hilton doesn't do daily housekeeping you contact them from what I understand how frequently you want it.

I mentioned this on another thread a poster was a tinge annoyed that Disney didn't have trash liners in the Value room. I did say that more hotels than not in recent years as far as we've stayed in haven't had trash liners. Trash liners were not in Bellagio, Wynn or Encore. I do feel for people on the Disney front they do charge quite a lot and you know I mean it's a Disney hotel that's one of the reasons people are staying there because it's Disney ya know

 

[V.B.]

To support your point…. Though both DH and I did the WDW thing a few times in our childhood and as young adults, we had a good 10 year stretch in young adulthood when we didn’t go and were focused on other things in life. However I always knew I’d return with my kids. We did just that in 2019, and with our 4 & 2 year old did it big. Leading up to the trip I felt a little overwhelmed and also was worried I’d feel nickel and dined and stressed. However, as I proclaimed many of times after that trip it was worth every single penny and every second spent planning. It was THE most magical trip. And although our initial plan was to do it big and then not return for a few years…. We got roped into the magic and returned in 2020 and 2021.
OP I think your point is, there are point is there are families like ours who thought we were going on a “theme park vacation” and got SO much more. We were hooked. And the question remains… with Disneys current state of cutbacks, limited entertainment, genie + issues with the app, 7 am wake up lack of flexibility etc…. Will a family like ours go for the first time and think “wow that was magical when can we return?! And keep returning year after yesr” Or will they be left thinking “meh that was a lot of
stress and money” and be a one and done….

only time and stats will tell!

I think that's the crux of the matter. Disney has plenty of the people who decide they are going to Disney and just show up filling the parks at the moment, along with the yearly/few times a year visitors who are also going back. The AP holders can tell the difference and will be noticing the over flowing garbage bins and insane price increases from years gone by, cut backs on EMH, etc (and many are saying they won't go back for a long time). As said, time will tell if those families will decide it's enough to go once every five or so years, or just won't go back. Right now, crowds are huge and it's anybody's guessing game if that will continue with how they are going.
One thing I WILL say is that I'm in the group that going on vacation and waking up at 7 am to MAYBE get a ILL would wear on me. I was ready to head to Disney with my family after myself not going for over 20 plus years and have decided that the early wake up times, chaos of Genie+ and the crazy price increases aren't worth it. I have enough stress in my life to not add a vacation to the list of stresses. There is a whole world out there to explore. So... I'm one that you can add to the list of Disney has priced and gouged me out.

 

[agavegirl1]

I've actually read the whole thread. DH and I have a reservation for October, along with stays at Universal and other places along the way. We are taking a month off and going to Florida. We started discussing dropping the Disney portion of the trip and going to the Keys instead. I just can't justify the Genie+ and LL$ to him when the costs are already through the roof for a Moderate resort. We only go to Orlando every 3-4 years and every time there are more hoops and fewer amenities. We may add Sea World days and a day at Busch Gardens. There are plenty of other things to do in Florida. We haven't yet cancelled the reservation but the more I read, the more I'm inclined to say skip it. Thanks for your input everyone. It really made me think.

 

[Bruggok]

Great discussion everyone. Went Dec 17-26, 7 days of ropedrop >> afternoon nap/pool >> back to park for dinner/fireworks/fun until after park close. Here are some thoughts:

1. Myself, my wife, and my 9 year old were all boosted or 2 shot vaccinated. We always N95 or surgical masked indoors, usually outdoors in crowded areas, and had many indoor QS/TS meals where no one sat close to us. We frequently washed hands with soap and used our own hand sanitizer.

Last Christmas we went with same precautions, far smaller crowd, and came back fine. This May we went and came back fine. This Christmas my kid caught a cold and my wife caught flu 8 days into 10 day trip - fever, bronchitis, and mild pneumonia with slightly lower PO2, all symptoms hit fast. Covid home test negative (PCR test appt was ~Jan 7th).

In short, even if you don’t get covid, common cold and flu seem rampant and spread easily with crowds on planes and at WDW. If your health is not the best, it’s ok to postpone/cancel until things settle down.

2. Like many seasoned visitors, we didn’t want to support Genie+/ILL. For 6 of 7 park days we were fine without. As others noted, do E rides at ropedrop/fireworks to park close and “lesser” rides in between. For Christmas holidays WDW increased morning EMH from 30 min to 1 hr, which benefitted us and effectively ruined offsite guest ropedrop. We will see if WDW scale morning EMH back to 30 min after holidays.

Early on I bashed deluxe resort Mon EP/Wed MK 2 hr post-close EMH, but it helped us satisfy E ride cravings. We paid for Genie+ 1 day when we didn’t ropedrop due to Chef Mickeys, and it was useful, but honestly not $48 useful. By 5pm we’ve ridden or booked what we wanted, so remaining choices were all undesirable.

In short, hitting most rides at least once without Genie+/ILL was very doable. Much of that was facilitated by earlier open/later close plus 1 hr AM EMH during holiday season. I found it ironic that WDW’s gutting of FP+ caused my family to go from casual 3 FP rides and done in the past to now aggressively planning how we can minimize wait times and maximize ride #s without Genie+.

3. My biggest complaint is that WDW dining prices went up, but menu options were cut significantly, servers have too many tables, and food took excessively long to come out. Basically WDW filled nearly every table in TS restaurants and time slots at WS places, upped the price, cut entree choices down to 4-6, but the cooks/servers were still understaffed. At several places I saw severs bus tables and swept floors, which suggests a serious worker shortage.

4.Despite people here complain of rude CMs and guests, the worst I saw were simply indifferent CMs, not rude. Didn’t see outright rude/confrontational guests either except a few who cut in line. Main issue here was that the Parks were not sufficiently cleaned after hours. At morning ropedrop we saw trash at the sides of walkways and on mulch; restrooms had non working stalls, paper towel dispensers, and dirty. Saw some cleaning staff busily doing a great job, but also too many workers who worked abnormally slowly. Saw a wait time on a stick holder looking at his cell phone for a long time. WDW must be desperate for workers and are now hiring ones Chic-Fil-A would reject.

CMs at DVCs I found consistently friendly and helpful. The park ones are low energy even in the morning, worn out, and/or don’t care. It was like night and day.

5. Buses were amazing! We had no rental car for a week of our onsite stay, but buses came so often that now I’d be happy to stay at all bus places like CSR, AKV, all-stars, etc. I don’t know if this is just a holiday thing, but WDW keep up the good work on buses!

 

[goofy4prez]

We were booked a long stay in Summer--and never thought I'd do it, but checked out early and asked for a refund. We have began to vacation in other places now--and I'm finding we can do some pretty fantastic vacations for a fraction of the cost of Disney. I was on today after months, thinking of going back at the end of the year--but still seeing the same things (high prices, long lines, no daily room service, many of the restaurants still not opened, etc.). We just had an amazing vacation in Las Vegas with our kids--and we were so impressed there was so much to do with kids out there...we had the same level of happiness we have always had on our Disney trips, just an FYI....pretty mountains and canyons too!

I'm so glad you found there is life outside of WDW and found it to be enjoyable. I'm not into gambling and never have given Vegas a thought. But after knowing several people who have gone and also are not into gambling and drinking and loved it, I may have to give it a thought.

As for us with WDW, we did very little when it came to vacations other than Disney World for the last 15 years. When this whole pandemic started and we had an Alaska Disney Cruise canceled in 2020 and with us canceling our WDW/Disney Cruise in 2021, I took that money and bought a brand new 21-foot Chaparral boat and had a blast last summer. We already have some plans for this year with the boat as well. With us canceling this year's Disney cruise and WDW in February, I just bought myself a killer home theatre set up. I've discovered there is vacation life outside of WDW. I'll always have a love for Disney, but it just won't ever be the same for me. While the changes may be good for many, it has left me behind and uninterested. Perhaps a trip to Disneyland with less planning less stress and etc. But with the way this world is right now, that won't be anytime soon either.

I have started very few threads in all the years I've been on the DIS, wow did this one take off. I've enjoyed the thoughts and opinions of everyone who has contributed. I have read each and every post. It's also refreshing to see that almost all of the posts have been respectful of the other person's thoughts and opinions as well. I hope and pray you all have a Happy, Safe, and Healthy New Year!