Potential Buyer, Availability (sorry for the length)

[scoobdoo]

Maybe with the Riviera resale restrictions I should push them to a different WDW resort?

Your parents have a deep love of RIV and have spoken about handing the contract down through the generations. Why would resale restrictions ever come into play here?

 

[RoseGold]

Your parents have a deep love of RIV and have spoken about handing the contract down through the generations. Why would resale restrictions ever come into play here?

Because OP is the generations and doesn't want it. Will it matter to his parents? No, they won't be here. But it matters to OP.

And LOL at someone getting wild after a timeshare presentation for a "deep love of RIV."

 

[Sandisw]

Because OP is the generations and doesn't want it. Will it matter to his parents? No, they won't be here. But it matters to OP.

And LOL at someone getting wild after a timeshare presentation for a "deep love of RIV."

But if the parents are paying for it, and want it, then can’t the OP just sell when they are gone?

Resale value shouldn’t matter because the parents are gifting it to them…so anything they get is profit since they didn’t buy it to start, but the parents get to enjoy the resort they love.

 

[RoseGold]

But if the parents are paying for it, and want it, then can’t the OP just sell when they are gone?

Resale value shouldn’t matter because the parents are gifting it to them…so anything they get is profit since they didn’t buy it to start, but the parents get to enjoy the resort they love.

Of course they can do whatever they want.

If they buy RIV, it will be a factor to OP, which is what his question was. Of course it's better to inherit non-restricted points, if he plans to sell them. Maybe his parents care about that, maybe they don't. Maybe they think he is going to keep it forever.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Hello All (sorry for the book below)

My parents (Retired and soon-to-be) fell in love with Riviera on a recent stay and got very hooked by a lovely salesperson (DVC Guide?). I happened to be joining them on the trip the day after they went on their tour and there was a true glimmer in their eyes that I had not seen in a long time, including tears in my mother's eyes when talking about making this investment as something that could be passed down to my kids (I'm an only child)((I also don't have any kids yet)). There is one problem with this - they are, self-admittedly, not "Disney People." They certainly enjoy going, love the restaurants and resorts, but they definitely don't visit the parks enough where I think that membership is a no-brainer. They've also only ever stayed at Wilderness Lodge and now Boardwalk, and have toured Riviera. The other wrinkle to this is that my wife is definitely not a "Disney Person." She will go and have fun, but I don't think a yearly trip is going to be in the cards for us. While I wouldn't consider myself a "Disney Person" ... it certainly scratches an itch. I don't think I can in good conscious say that I wouldn't enjoy myself considering I just flew down for two days of park hopping, Savi's workshop, Rise twice, Guardians once, 4 Genie + reservations stacked in line with park hopping times, walking back to Boardwalk in the rain (twice) after the boats shutdown, riding the Skyliner for fun, etc. I can lean-in to just about anything.

All that being said, I saw how excited my parents were and, as the person who will inevitably be tasked with running the reservations etc. if they actually DO become members, I set about reading threads here and articles elsewhere about the process, the Riviera Resale Restriction (something my parents never mentioned when I was with them), etc. Their idea as members would be 200 points a year so that we (all four of us) could spend a week together in two studios (or some combination) at Riviera, and eventually take our kids with us.

Given everything above, one of the things that I (and they) find most intriguing is the non-WDW properties. While I do not see us going to WDW every year, I can certainly see a 4-year rotation of WDW, Aluani, Vero Beach, and Hilton Head making sense. The Hilton Head property is, in particular, interesting to me as my wife and I recently moved to North Carolina, and would be able to drive to the property for weekend getaways.

With all that being said, a smattering of questions:

First and foremost, what is availability of the 3 non-WDW properties like at the 7 month mark? Will we be effectively locked out of (or severely limited at) these properties since we will only have a 7-month window?

Should I just try and convince my parents to buy resale at either HHI or Vero (thereby preventing them from ever booking Riviera through DVC for which my mom will kill me)?

Maybe with the Riviera resale restrictions I should push them to a different WDW resort?

I know from reading threads that using DVC points for non-Disney properties (using II or anything else) is usually a financial waste, is that people's experience? If they didn't want to go to WDW one year how easily are rentals accomplished to get some cash back?

Honestly, any and all opinions or commentary regarding the above is appreciated. I read a post in an unrelated thread that suggested 100 points a year to someone, which really clicked in my brain as a great idea to accomplish what they want to do (makes the DCV rotation every 2 years instead of every year), but idk.

Anyway, thanks for my rant. This has honestly been helpful even if no one responds - it will help when I discuss with them and the DVC Guide.

Your parents were sold a lifestyle dream dependent upon THEIR vision for the future becoming reality for themselves AND YOU. How often do you vacation with them now, w/ or w/o wife? Do you envision yourselves looking forward to using your vaycay time in that way going forward?

If you haven't, maybe start there.

If that's resolved in your mind, it's good of you to try to guide them to protect their interests, but it sounds more like your concern is you going forward (nothing bad about that!)

They've visited often enough to know what they like about WDW. If it isn't a financial burden & they understand RIV restrictions/point values/banking-borrowing, then where they buy is their choice. You'll inherit that with all brown furniture & DVD collection. (LOL)

Son (still visits WDW every few yrs-POLY) & I discussed all this as I purchased DVC for my retirement dreams. We now both own the contract that I chose (OKW) w/understanding he & DIL will let me know if they'd like a vaycay alone or with me...as their plans & lives evolve. I paid for the contract & maintain dues. It's my gift to them. When I'm gone, I'm removed from the contract & he can do with it as he likes. All openly discussed & agreed upon.
He loves that I'm living my dream & sharing it with him as we've done since he was born.

 

[Ozznato]

Hi all,

To answer a few of the more recent questions that have popped up, yes it is my parent's decision, but I am trying to help them make the most informed decision they can. It also has an eye towards the realities of the matter. While they intend to use it as something to pass down to grandkids for 50 years, what if they need the money in 5? I think the average person holds a DVC contract for like 8 years, with the range running 5-15 years? It is easy to think about this as a 50-year investment, but that may not be the case. They need to be aware of the risks that come with that.

There is certainly self-interest here, I won't deny it, but if their expectation is to buy this membership to essentially pay for their vacations for the rest of their life, and they were NOT planning on going to a Disney property every year, well then its really not a good fit for them anyway, is it?

People are right, it is their money and they should use it as they see fit. But they should actually know what they're getting.

This thread has been great, has helped them assess their options, and has really made them engage in the exercise of planning out what their use looks like. The flexibility is one of the biggest things they are looking for with this membership, and they have the ability to get what they want essentially half off on the resale market (though they will be sacrificing Riviera). OR, they could choose to give up their flexibility, and buy Riviera resale at half the price of Riviera direct for the actual use they want.

If they could just purchase Riviera Direct for 100 points, I would have them do it, and I wouldn't say a peep, because it would reflect a price point, desire, and flexibility that aligns with what they want. Unfortunately, that is not an option, so we've had to work the issue.

 

[Sandisw]

Hi all,

To answer a few of the more recent questions that have popped up, yes it is my parent's decision, but I am trying to help them make the most informed decision they can. It also has an eye towards the realities of the matter. While they intend to use it as something to pass down to grandkids for 50 years, what if they need the money in 5? I think the average person holds a DVC contract for like 8 years, with the range running 5-15 years? It is easy to think about this as a 50-year investment, but that may not be the case. They need to be aware of the risks that come with that.

There is certainly self-interest here, I won't deny it, but if their expectation is to buy this membership to essentially pay for their vacations for the rest of their life, and they were NOT planning on going to a Disney property every year, well then its really not a good fit for them anyway, is it?

People are right, it is their money and they should use it as they see fit. But they should actually know what they're getting.

This thread has been great, has helped them assess their options, and has really made them engage in the exercise of planning out what their use looks like. The flexibility is one of the biggest things they are looking for with this membership, and they have the ability to get what they want essentially half off on the resale market (though they will be sacrificing Riviera). OR, they could choose to give up their flexibility, and buy Riviera resale at half the price of Riviera direct for the actual use they want.

If they could just purchase Riviera Direct for 100 points, I would have them do it, and I wouldn't say a peep, because it would reflect a price point, desire, and flexibility that aligns with what they want. Unfortunately, that is not an option, so we've had to work the issue.

DVC does work best for those visiting at least every other year so it can still make sense.

I do agree that you should let them know all the ins and outs and that does include the restrictions that will come with resale if buying RIV. However, so far, it has not played a huge role in value and its held its own.

Buying a resort that is in active sales, typically sees about a 30% drop in value off the bat...think new car....So, if one were to buy 150 at RIV with today's incentives, it is around $189. Take the typical drop that other resorts saw when sales were still going on and you have a resale value...it would be worth about $133. Current market well within that range. What does that mean?

It means that RIV currently is doing what other new resorts in terms of value against direct before it was sold out. Now, none of us know what will happen in the future and there have been some sales lower than that.

Personally, I have always advised people not to use resale value as part of the equation because you just never know. While things have been stable with DVC, something could happen tomorrow that changes things and no matter what resort one buys, it could be worth less than you paid.

But, if resale value and selling for a certain number needs to happen...than DVC, even resale, may not make the best sense. Of course, buying resale could cushion you more against the drop because you are starting lower, but there is no guarantee.

I do own RIV, both direct and resale, and its worth it to own there. I have sold other contracts to end up with it. I will end with DVC is just too much $$$, no matter what one decides, to buy a resort that is not your first choice, if you have one, because of a worry about resale value down the line that might end up lower down the line...

Good luck!!!

 

[Nursemanit]

I can not get over the whole "buying to leave to your kids" - Unless you have so much money that your long term care is covered for a prolonged end of life, you could be adding timeshare bills to the cost of your care.

If you want to leave a vacation legacy to your kids put 30k in an irrevocable trust

 

[Sandisw]

I can not get over the whole "buying to leave to your kids" - Unless you have so much money that your long term care is covered for a prolonged end of life, you could be adding timeshare bills to the cost of your care.

If you want to leave a vacation legacy to your kids put 30k in an irrevocable trust

Every situation is different. My adult kids were happy to be made owners for some of our contracts and inherit the others..assuming we still own those.

We also will have approximately 10 years of money set aside for MFs once we pass if things stay owned.

Now if they had said they didn’t want them at all, we would not have added them and then would simply sell when we are too old to use or they would liquidate when gone.

But we certainly would still own..and own as many points for our own enjoyment.

However, I completely agree that adult children should be asked if they are interested after one is gone. If they are not, then go in assuming it can be sold either before or after one passes.

 

[Ozznato]

I can not get over the whole "buying to leave to your kids" - Unless you have so much money that your long term care is covered for a prolonged end of life, you could be adding timeshare bills to the cost of your care.

If you want to leave a vacation legacy to your kids put 30k in an irrevocable trust

Exactly what I would probably do as well. But, they are not as financially saavy and also have "tangible" mindsets. They'd rather give X than give money for Y. Plus, again, they get the benefit of using it themselves.

 

[Ozznato]

DVC does work best for those visiting at least every other year so it can still make sense.

I do agree that you should let them know all the ins and outs and that does include the restrictions that will come with resale if buying RIV. However, so far, it has not played a huge role in value and its held its own.

Buying a resort that is in active sales, typically sees about a 30% drop in value off the bat...think new car....So, if one were to buy 150 at RIV with today's incentives, it is around $189. Take the typical drop that other resorts saw when sales were still going on and you have a resale value...it would be worth about $133. Current market well within that range. What does that mean?

It means that RIV currently is doing what other new resorts in terms of value against direct before it was sold out. Now, none of us know what will happen in the future and there have been some sales lower than that.

Personally, I have always advised people not to use resale value as part of the equation because you just never know. While things have been stable with DVC, something could happen tomorrow that changes things and no matter what resort one buys, it could be worth less than you paid.

But, if resale value and selling for a certain number needs to happen...than DVC, even resale, may not make the best sense. Of course, buying resale could cushion you more against the drop because you are starting lower, but there is no guarantee.

I do own RIV, both direct and resale, and its worth it to own there. I have sold other contracts to end up with it. I will end with DVC is just too much $$$, no matter what one decides, to buy a resort that is not your first choice, if you have one, because of a worry about resale value down the line that might end up lower down the line...

Good luck!!!

Thanks for this response! This is one of the little pickles we're in. While the value down the line is a factor, all of it is being balanced by actual use. My parents enjoyed what they saw at RIV, and would love to own there, but they, definitively, want the ability to book at different resorts (especially once they are both retired and their schedules are extremely flexible so they can play around with availability). The problem is that the only way to get all of that is buy purchasing a RIV Direct contract, with a minimum purchase price of 150 points. Given the price and what that will mean for frequency of trips etc, we've come to the realization that 150 points, purchased Direct, is a financial cost that is out of sync with their desired use.

They could afford a 4-day, including the weekend, trip every year at RIV with the money they are saving by buying a 100 point resale contract instead of a 150 point direct contract. It kinds of hit the nail on the head for them.

Again - if a 100 point RIV direct was available, I'd tell them to do it.

 

[RoseGold]

You can buy 100 direct RIV if you're already an owner. A backdoor would be to buy resale, buy the 100 points, and then sell the resale.

Honestly, it sounds like Poly2 in a couple years might be even better if they want shiny and new. RIV is already 3 years old. They could swap out the resale then, or sell completely and be done with Disney. Or, just keep the Boardwalk and decide you're happy with that.

 

[Ozznato]

You can buy 100 direct RIV if you're already an owner. A backdoor would be to buy resale, buy the 100 points, and then sell the resale.

Honestly, it sounds like Poly2 in a couple years might be even better if they want shiny and new. RIV is already 3 years old. They could swap out the resale then, or sell completely and be done with Disney. Or, just keep the Boardwalk and decide you're happy with that.

I didn't even think about this!! How clever!

 

[Ozznato]

You can buy 100 direct RIV if you're already an owner. A backdoor would be to buy resale, buy the 100 points, and then sell the resale.

Honestly, it sounds like Poly2 in a couple years might be even better if they want shiny and new. RIV is already 3 years old. They could swap out the resale then, or sell completely and be done with Disney. Or, just keep the Boardwalk and decide you're happy with that.

This just really got in my brain as so clever. Has this been folks experience here? Buying resale gets you "access" to direct offers, which they can then buy and swap? Anyone done this?

Also, is there theorehtically any restriction on the use of a 100 point resale contract? Like the DVC guide indicates that the minimum they are selling is 150 to "be a member," but that's just for the blue card extras correct? There should be no issue with actually using a 100-point resale contract, even if thats all you have, right?

 

[Sandisw]

This just really got in my brain as so clever. Has this been folks experience here? Buying resale gets you "access" to direct offers, which they can then buy and swap? Anyone done this?

Also, is there theorehtically any restriction on the use of a 100 point resale contract? Like the DVC guide indicates that the minimum they are selling is 150 to "be a member," but that's just for the blue card extras correct? There should be no issue with actually using a 100-point resale contract, even if thats all you have, right?

I started that way. Bought resale at BRV, so I could add on less than the 160 needed when BLT went on sale..and get owner pricing…I sold the BRV about 6 months later.

But lots of people do do it and can be a great way to end up with what you want and cost far less than the extra 50 points you would need to buy direct when 100 points is all you want.

 

[CarolynFH]

There should be no issue with actually using a 100-point resale contract, even if thats all you have, right?

Nope, there’s no issue with using it. Many owners are able to fulfill their desires with only one small contract.

 

[RoseGold]

Being an existing owner lets you buy a little earlier with a better discount. The discount of VGF was actually incredible, but that was for like 300 points. But you can sell (or not) your resale once you buy direct, obviously.

When you're doing this math, don't forget closing. This can be significant cost for smaller contracts. The board sponsor has very good estimates, if you pick a sample contract. I'm using a Beach Club 100 point contract, as an example.

Deals can be negotiated, these are typical for DVC.
Closing (buyer) $809
commission to broker (seller) 9%-ish ($1646) maybe a couple hundred in junk fees too.

If you have 300 points, maybe this isn't that significant in the bigger picture. But on that 100 point contract, that's $8/point on the buy and $17/point on the sell.

Buying direct from Disney is a little cheaper in closing because most people don't get title insurance. But it's still over $500, I think it was 6 or 700 quoted to me on 75 point VGF contract.

The way to make this work is to buy well so that you get a loaded contract with some "free" points you didn't pay dues on. The board sponsor listings are good about listing this clearly. Dues are paid in January, so 2022 dues are already paid, the question is whether you are reimbursing for the points or not. We are at the point in the year where I would expect to see contracts with free points.

And don't forget RIV resale, which will be increasingly in play and not exactly a hot ticket. If they know they want to stay at RIV, this might not be a bad choice. I'd be lowballing RIV resale, if I were this in love with RIV.

As for OP, none of these choices are going to work for you, so they should buy what they want. You're just going to have to sell this thing. So, you'd like it if they bought anything but RIV, but this really won't matter much. You'll be able to sell it, even RIV, you'll be fine. If they get a few decades of use out of it, great. A slick salesman painted them a picture that doesn't exist. Sorry.

 

[RoseGold]

I can not get over the whole "buying to leave to your kids" - Unless you have so much money that your long term care is covered for a prolonged end of life, you could be adding timeshare bills to the cost of your care.

If you want to leave a vacation legacy to your kids put 30k in an irrevocable trust

Plenty of people buy DVC in trust, which is pretty much the same thing.

I don't think DVC is necessarily a bad financial decision for some, but it isn't sounding great for a bunch of non-Disney people. IMO, this isn't the right product for people who don't go to Disney at least yearly. I wouldn't buy it for offsite, unless you're obsessed with one of those resorts in particular, which doesn't sounds like OP.

 

[PrinceRaki]

(I know that point increases will make this more difficult, but I'm trying to get the concepts down).

Points do not increase like cash rates. There is a fixed amount of points per resort. Yearly they may reallocate them between room categories or seasons eg if summer goes up, winter goes down.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Points do not increase like cash rates. There is a fixed amount of points per resort. Yearly they may reallocate them between room categories or seasons eg if summer goes up, winter goes down.

Good catch. I'm surprised no one caught that earlier.