Should I say anything or stay out of it? (high school student/VP issue)

[Disney Addicted]

I don't want to be the parent that always jumps to their child's defense. I don't. I know my son had to go to the VP's office due to language but it hurts when he came home so upset. (1st year of high-school. 1st time in trouble.)

Background: Yesterday in french class they played a game of concentration & bluffing (teacher's description - I have no idea what kind of game that is). Student B was out of the game and, against the rules, told the other kids still in the game who or what Student C was in the game. The other kids kicked student C out of the game. According to my son the teacher saw the cheating and walked away to the next group of kids, ignoring the cheating.

My son has a strong sense of fair play and was outraged the teacher did nothing. So he told Student B he was a "cheating bastard". When Student B started uttering threats in return (I'm going to beat you up after school, kick your ***) the teacher told both kids to leave the class.

I spoke with my son yesterday. I can understand being upset with cheating but made it clear he can't call someone names over it. He has lost computer time and earned the entire yard to rake up (corner lot lots of leaves).

He feels the VP told him he was completely at fault for saying anything to being with. That he started the issue. That he should have kept quiet. He feels there is never any point in going to a teacher (or any adult in the school system) because no one really listens or wants to hear the truth. Telling the truth gets you in trouble. It's better to shut up.

He really said that! I feel concerned about it and wonder if I should let the VP know that's what he walked out of the meeting with. Or should I just stay out of it?

I asked if the VP discussed a better way of handling a situation when he feels someone cheated but no. What he got out of it is that he should keep quiet if that happens. I'm not sure I agree... Yes, there's times to keep quiet. But I also feel cheaters need to be told they've been caught out.

 

[Baby Ninja]

My heart goes out to you. My inner momma bear would want to rampage through the school like a rabid animal!

My daughter (14) is very analytical and sounds a lot like your son. If someone isn’t playing fair she’ll be the first to speak up and/or defend a friend. I couldn’t be more proud of the person she’s becoming and how high she holds her values. We’ve encountered a somewhat similar challenge and in my opinion your son knows best in this situation. Have a candid discussion with him outlining he did the right thing by voicing what he believed was right, and praise him for understanding the difference. Minus the name calling he did everything right. This age group is preparing for adulthood the VP’s role was to correct the behaviour by providing examples as you’ve mentioned. “Looking away” and “remaining silent” is not how we positively solve problems out here in the “real world”. It’s hard to tell if our teachers now a days aren’t properly trained, or if they simply don’t care.

Your son is the one that has to spend the majority of his day at school and if he feels your interference will cause him grief by speaking out then I’d stay out of it. He may get taunted at school by other students, and sadly, some teachers (I’ve heard) may penalize students when they’ve been made to look bad (ego problems). Adding mom to that may only make it worse, and I’m sure you don’t want him dreading school daily and potentially having grades slip.

It sounds like you and your son have a healthy/open relationship so keep the communication lines open. If things continue or get worse definitely step in, if this blows over then I’d keep this in your pocket until PTI’s and discuss one on one with the teacher. Take the opportunity to ask hard questions about their teaching style then eloquently bring up this situation. Perhaps with the VP too. I’m not sure about you, but 1/3 of my city taxes go to the public school system and if they think I have no say what happens at school, they are in for a rude awakening! (AKA rabid momma bear).

Take a few deep breaths and be proud of the young man you have. He’ll tell you what he needs from you, so be open to whatever that answer may be. Sending you some love and hugs.

 

[ottawamom]

Unfortunately the VP is probably right but I would be going in to have a chat about it (my husband calls me an Apache attack helicopter mom). It would be good for the two of you (you and VP) to be on the same page regarding your son. A school can label a student very early on and you don't want that to happen in a negative way. Let the VP get to know you and your son through you and he/she can become a valuable ally for the school years ahead. Just my thoughts (from experience).

 

[ellbell]

As a mom of four ranging in age from 18 to 7 I've come to realize that the teachers and principals very rarely base anything on being fair. My oldest was jumped at school when his back was turned and his hands were full one year in June (video ended up on youtube so I saw exactly what happened) at a school with a zero tolerance policy and I asked what they were going to do to protect him from it happening again and they flat out told me they couldn't guarantee his safety. I ended up pulling him from class for the rest of the year and he failed a class because of it. The kid who jumped him missed 3 days and that was the end of his punishment.

Teach your kid to stand up for what he believes in because one day it isn't going to matter about who believes him or not. What is right is what matters and let him know you support him but teach him the right way to do it.

 

[FigmentSpark]

How did you find out he was down to see the VP? Via your son or a call from the school?

Was there a school punishment?

If the school didn't call you and they didn't set a punishment, I'd stay out of it, especially since your son doesn't think there will be any change. My guess is the VP was 'doing his job' in talking to the kids, but probably saw it as a 'stuff happens'. It was name calling/swearing. He had to say something in case the other boy's mom called to complain.

Now, if you want to complain that the other boy got nothing for threatening your son, that's another matter. Is your son worried about that threat or was it just something said between classmates that won't come to anything. That is certainly a concern whether your son 'started it' or not. It escalated to a threat situation.

I don't think I would be putting huge punishments on my kid when he already feels the world (his world) is against him. I would have him write out his side of the story, in detail, so if it comes up in the future, you have it.

I would also teach him that the world isn't fair, but you have to give people a chance. Talk about things like motivation of the teacher. And about his reputation with the teacher and in the school. This is the reality of society. He may one day need that teacher or that VP to give him a letter of reference for college. Or a better mark on a test on the day he had the flu. Maybe the teacher had just had conflicts in the earlier classes and has her own teenager at home or a parent that's got dementia or a rocky marriage. Maybe she just couldn't face another conflict. Or maybe she just thought they'd work it out for themselves... but they didn't.

But again, if you do decide to see the VP, make sure that he knows you see a huge difference between calling a name and receiving a threat to your person. One is rude, while the other is illegal. If he balks at that, suggest bringing criminal charges against the boy and the VP for doing nothing.

 

[ForMyBoys]

My heart goes out to you. My inner momma bear would want to rampage through the school like a rabid animal!

My daughter (14) is very analytical and sounds a lot like your son. If someone isn’t playing fair she’ll be the first to speak up and/or defend a friend. I couldn’t be more proud of the person she’s becoming and how high she holds her values. We’ve encountered a somewhat similar challenge and in my opinion your son knows best in this situation. Have a candid discussion with him outlining he did the right thing by voicing what he believed was right, and praise him for understanding the difference. Minus the name calling he did everything right. This age group is preparing for adulthood the VP’s role was to correct the behaviour by providing examples as you’ve mentioned. “Looking away” and “remaining silent” is not how we positively solve problems out here in the “real world”. It’s hard to tell if our teachers now a days aren’t properly trained, or if they simply don’t care.

Your son is the one that has to spend the majority of his day at school and if he feels your interference will cause him grief by speaking out then I’d stay out of it. He may get taunted at school by other students, and sadly, some teachers (I’ve heard) may penalize students when they’ve been made to look bad (ego problems). Adding mom to that may only make it worse, and I’m sure you don’t want him dreading school daily and potentially having grades slip.

It sounds like you and your son have a healthy/open relationship so keep the communication lines open. If things continue or get worse definitely step in, if this blows over then I’d keep this in your pocket until PTI’s and discuss one on one with the teacher. Take the opportunity to ask hard questions about their teaching style then eloquently bring up this situation. Perhaps with the VP too. I’m not sure about you, but 1/3 of my city taxes go to the public school system and if they think I have no say what happens at school, they are in for a rude awakening! (AKA rabid momma bear).

Take a few deep breaths and be proud of the young man you have. He’ll tell you what he needs from you, so be open to whatever that answer may be. Sending you some love and hugs.

Well said and I echo this advice.

 

[pigletto]

First of all (((((((Disney Addiced))))))))). I had an eerily similar week with my 14 year old and I can relate more than you know, I’m just not ready to write about it.

I think what bothers me most is that he did the right thing, but his delivery wasnt appropriate so nobody acknowledged that he did the right thing. I see it in my own son so often ,we raised our kids to be ethical human beings and not just stand for injustice. Watching my kid realize that it was less about doing the right thing and more about the “optics” was so hard this week. I lost a lot of sleep over our situation this week. It’s been bad.

I’ve come to this conclusion... we do the right thing desptite the consequences. Not everyone will get it. And sadly, there are MANY adults who want want is easiest, not what is fair. It’s hard to watch them realize that, but they have to as they will be faced with it their whole lives.

Mostly I just wanted to say that I get it, and more than anything , just be proud that you’re raising a child who thinks doing the ethical thing is important, because so many people aren’t. I wouldn’t be too hard on him, because he’s right .. it wasn’t fair.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

I posted this in the air miles thread by mistake:

We went through this a handful of times over my son's 15-year hockey career (age 5-20). He played AAA his whole life. I had a few of Mama Meltdowns over that time and only really two times did I regret not taking more time to remove myself and think through the situation. But when your kid is upset and semi-crying as a teenager, I couldn't deal. Especially since he's not an overly sensitive type.

Anyways, you are not alone in being conflicted as to when to step in a be a voice for your child. It's a tough bridge to cross...

 

[bababear_50]

J.M.H.O. (Just My Honest Opinion)
Sending parent HUGS to you.
I would be on the phone to have a polite conversation with the V.P.
Listen with an open mind and then express your thoughts and concerns.
This will convey to admin that you and your son have a very open/ honest relationship and that you will be monitoring any future situations.
Hugs
Mel

 

[pigletto]

J.M.H.O. (Just My Honest Opinion)
Sending parent HUGS to you.
I would be on the phone to have a polite conversation with the V.P.
Listen with an open mind and then express your thoughts and concerns.
This will convey to admin that you and your son have a very open/ honest relationship and that you will be monitoring any future situations.
Hugs
Mel

I forgot to mention that I too spoke with the VP this week. She was lovely, and we are all on the same page. But I’m also sure she called me because I told my son if he was called down to the office over this incident I wanted to be in the loop. So when he was, he told them his parents has said they want to be present. They got his permission to speak to him first and then call one of us. Without too much detail, our situation was delicate and he was being railroaded and it did require us to be an advocate for him. If he’d done something stupid and deserved to be in trouble I would have stood back. I think sometimes we worry too much about being seen as overbearing, I can assure you I don’t ever want to be on the bad side of a teacher or school and never have been. We’ve never had to go in for anything, This was different and he needed us. And if you feel your son needs you, I wouldn’t hesitate to call and calmly discuss the matter.

 

[Sue M]

First of all (((((((Disney Addiced))))))))). I had an eerily similar week with my 14 year old and I can relate more than you know, I’m just not ready to write about it.

I think what bothers me most is that he did the right thing, but his delivery wasnt appropriate so nobody acknowledged that he did the right thing. I see it in my own son so often ,we raised our kids to be ethical human beings and not just stand for injustice. Watching my kid realize that it was less about doing the right thing and more about the “optics” was so hard this week. I lost a lot of sleep over our situation this week. It’s been bad.

I’ve come to this conclusion... we do the right thing desptite the consequences. Not everyone will get it. And sadly, there are MANY adults who want want is easiest, not what is fair. It’s hard to watch them realize that, but they have to as they will be faced with it their whole lives.

Mostly I just wanted to say that I get it, and more than anything , just be proud that you’re raising a child who thinks doing the ethical thing is important, because so many people aren’t. I wouldn’t be too hard on him, because he’s right .. it wasn’t fair.

Had to hit reply because an AD covered your entire post, sheesh.

 

[Sue M]

OP- I feel your fustration. Granted, your son handled it the wrong way. But so did the teacher, ignoring blatant cheating. What is that teaching the students? And seems like the VP lost a teachable moment of explaining to your son a better way of handling this type of situation. Did anything happen with the other boy who uttered the threats? The other boy should have had consequences and probably parents called in, imo.

It’s good you discussed with him other ways he could have handled these situations. It’s only his first year in High School and there are so many new people and experiences he will have to learn to deal with. And as others said, not everything will be fair. I probably would hold back from a school meeting for now. You may have a parent/teacher night coming up in awhile? I’d go to that and see what the teacher says about your son, and feel out the situation then.

 

[seashoreCM]

Question for the future and for eavesdroppers:

Would it be better if your DS or DD said nothing at the moment of the cheating or whatever. Then come home and and discuss it with you, say, at the dinner table. The purposes are, (1) To allow time to cool off, (2) To think about methods of bringing the problem to the attention of the school, (3) To think about good solutions, (4) To come up with a good presentation, (5) Provide time to possibly conclude that the problem is not worth pursuing.

Then, if you want to pursue it, make an appointment with the principal or go to a scheduled parent teacher meeting.

 

[shameless3]

According to my son the teacher saw the cheating and walked away to the next group of kids, ignoring the cheating.

Just my thoughts, but perhaps your son thought the teacher saw the cheating when in fact he/she did not see it happen. I'm not a teacher but work closely with schools and know that alot is happening in a classroom at one time, particularly if there are several groups/activities going on at the same time.