State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[ChipnDale79]

Seriously. I mean this forum blew up about boo bash and look at all the dates selling out. There are 330 million people (possible customers) in this country and more than 200 million of them have no clue what Disney world is like or used to be like. They just know it’s a rite of passage for American families to go once with their kids. Disney will always have these people to pull from. People will absolutely pay this, hotels will still be full, and Disney will make huge profits. To the people who threaten to sell their dvc and not renew their annual pass, Disney doesn’t care. There are 5 people ready to take your place.

My only argument is about the people ready to take their place. The only way that happens is if Disney is at 100% capacity all the time, and that's just not the case. If i decide not to vacation at Disney, no one is taking my spot in line, its just a lost spot in line for Disney. Will they make up for it on increased spending by other guests, sort of. They were going to make that money if i was there or not, mine was just more money for them.

But you're dead on with the other comments.

 

[mom2rtk]

My only argument is about the people ready to take their place. The only way that happens is if Disney is at 100% capacity all the time, and that's just not the case. If i decide not to vacation at Disney, no one is taking my spot in line, its just a lost spot in line for Disney. Will they make up for it on increased spending by other guests, sort of. They were going to make that money if i was there or not, mine was just more money for them.

But you're dead on with the other comments.

Exactly. I have often asked where this big line of people waiting to get in was located. Because unless they were visiting on one of just a couple of peak holidays during the year, they could get in already (pandemic notwithstanding).

 

[Br'er Rabbit is the Best]

Exactly. I have often asked where this big line of people waiting to get in was located. Because unless they were visiting on one of just a couple of peak holidays during the year, they could get in already (pandemic notwithstanding).

It’s not a 1 for 1 and no business will ever be at 100% capacity every day outside of NFL stadiums but the general point remains. For every guest who gets priced out and leaves, a new guest takes their place. And there is a big long line of people buying DVC resale. There’s a big long line of people trying to buy annual passes. I just looked at hotels in October and for the week I’m going the cheapest available hotel is animal kingdom lodge at $450 a night. People make fun of Bob’s unprecedented demand comment but it’s 100% true. And this is with the borders closed! Imagine how bad it will be once foreigners are allowed back in the country. Now there’s an even bigger pool of people to take your place.

 

[cakebaker]

I havent been to Universal in 25 years, neither has my wife. We've been to Disney many times since then, and have contemplated going to Universal and/or Sea World. Universal really interests me because of Harry Potter, and now one of my sons is into it. We havent gone to Universal because Disney made it hard for us to leave the bubble, the longer you stay the cheaper the park ticket is. Now that my kids are getting older and will ride some of the bigger rides, and because Disney is popping their bubble, I can now see us spending time at Universal.

We don’t go to WDW because it’s a better value $$$ wise, we go because we like it. If it ever happens that we don’t anymore, Universal won’t replace it, because they can’t. But no doubt, if one likes what Universal sells, it’s a good alternative vacation.

I’m hoping Remy turns out to be right and they push out FP+ in the interim, then we’ll see how it all shakes out before losing our minds. We won’t be returning until Disney is fully back, tentatively next summer, so we have time.

 

[New Mouse]

It’s not a 1 for 1 and no business will ever be at 100% capacity every day outside of NFL stadiums but the general point remains. For every guest who gets priced out and leaves, a new guest takes their place. And there is a big long line of people buying DVC resale. There’s a big long line of people trying to buy annual passes. I just looked at hotels in October and for the week I’m going the cheapest available hotel is animal kingdom lodge at $450 a night. People make fun of Bob’s unprecedented demand comment but it’s 100% true. And this is with the borders closed! Imagine how bad it will be once foreigners are allowed back in the country. Now there’s an even bigger pool of people to take your place.

People buy dvc resale for many reasons, mainly that DVC direct prices are too high. They currently have 3 resorts available direct and other than at select properties there is no line of people.

Id also add that destroying your brand and decades of goodwill for short term profit does not bode well for the long term.

 

[Moliphino]

People who don't bother to learn the basics does not a flawed system make and those that do aren't cheating, gaming or making use of loopholes. You can call it pounding the app and make it sound like some super secret hack, but it's just refreshing a screen to see if availability pops up. We never hunted and modified- it wasn't neccesary- but those again, are not hacks or loopholes. One could be blissfully unaware of any great strategies and still use the system effectively.

Seriously, because some people don't even take a few minutes to figure out when they can and should book, it's a flawed system? Those people aren't going to be effective with any system they come up with.

The people who don't bother to figure it out are probably the same ones who didn't use the paper fastpasses because they just assumed you had to pay for them. If you don't bother to do any research for a trip it's your own fault if you have a worse experience.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

It’s not a 1 for 1 and no business will ever be at 100% capacity every day outside of NFL stadiums but the general point remains. For every guest who gets priced out and leaves, a new guest takes their place. And there is a big long line of people buying DVC resale. There’s a big long line of people trying to buy annual passes. I just looked at hotels in October and for the week I’m going the cheapest available hotel is animal kingdom lodge at $450 a night. People make fun of Bob’s unprecedented demand comment but it’s 100% true. And this is with the borders closed! Imagine how bad it will be once foreigners are allowed back in the country. Now there’s an even bigger pool of people to take your place.

I wonder how many rooms would be available if the remaining All Stars and POR/POFQ were open. So is it unprecedented demand or lack of rooms open.

 

[CSLucas]

People buy dvc resale for many reasons, mainly that DVC direct prices are too high. They currently have 3 resorts available direct and other than at select properties there is no line of people.

Id also add that destroying your brand and decades of goodwill for short term profit does not bode well for the long term.

From my limited perspective, there is definitely a line of people waiting to buy DVC. I have been on a waitlist for my last 2 direct add-ons, and on this last one (about a month ago), the ONLY resorts with availability for my UY were Riviera and Animal Kingdom (granted, the wait list didn't take too long, but still..).
I get your point (and I do agree that long-term some course corrections will probably have to be made), but unfortunately modern business is driven by the next quarter reports, and the fact is that Disney is in huge demand right now. Will that change? Maybe. As others have mentioned, we don't go because it's good value. Just about ANYWHERE else in the world is better value. We go because our children adore it, and when we outgrow it there will be another family with young children who adore it. And, if in a few years some of that wears off and they find themselves hurting, it's pretty easy to open up some of the perks to values and moderates or to reevaluate pricing models.

Edited to say: I am FAR from a Disney apologist - I am pretty open about the fact that I really do not enjoy Disney, but we are in it for the kids. I have never viewed Disney as being benevolent or out to make people have wonderful happy vacations (my first certainly wasn't!), but they do sell the concept of happiness, and people will keep buying.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

The people who don't bother to figure it out are probably the same ones who didn't use the paper fastpasses because they just assumed you had to pay for them. If you don't bother to do any research for a trip it's your own fault if you have a worse experience.

Exactly. I have an all inclusive booked for December. I've done a bit of research and I know for certain restaurants I need to reserve them in the lobby prior at 8:30 am and it's smart to arrive around 8 am (unless you have butler service). That was with a quick google search and reading some reviews on trip advisor. I also looked on their site and found out a few more things. I'm not cheating the system because I know this information.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

There are plenty of people who have never been to Disney and don't know how it was in the "good ole days." Those people will start going now. When they go they may love it and if they go back year after year they will eventually think Disney is being ruined and remember their version of the "good ole days."

 

[ChipnDale79]

It’s not a 1 for 1 and no business will ever be at 100% capacity every day outside of NFL stadiums but the general point remains. For every guest who gets priced out and leaves, a new guest takes their place. And there is a big long line of people buying DVC resale. There’s a big long line of people trying to buy annual passes. I just looked at hotels in October and for the week I’m going the cheapest available hotel is animal kingdom lodge at $450 a night. People make fun of Bob’s unprecedented demand comment but it’s 100% true. And this is with the borders closed! Imagine how bad it will be once foreigners are allowed back in the country. Now there’s an even bigger pool of people to take your place.

I mean i get what you're saying, but we still have resorts that are still closed, we've got 2 value resorts that are sitting empty. that's what, 3500-4000 hotel rooms itself? Let's see how things look when resorts are 100% open.

I bet if all those resorts were open, AK wouldnt be your cheapest option. Then again, October is different also, its the start of the 50 year celebration.

 

[Disneylover99]

There are plenty of people who have never been to Disney and don't know how it was in the "good ole days." Those people will start going now. When they go they may love it and if they go back year after year they will eventually think Disney is being ruined and remember their version of the "good ole days."

And there are some people that go year after year without ever using/figuring out fp, ADR’s, etc…. and they love it! Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

[Marionnette]

[

It’s not a 1 for 1 and no business will ever be at 100% capacity every day outside of NFL stadiums but the general point remains. For every guest who gets priced out and leaves, a new guest takes their place. And there is a big long line of people buying DVC resale. There’s a big long line of people trying to buy annual passes. I just looked at hotels in October and for the week I’m going the cheapest available hotel is animal kingdom lodge at $450 a night. People make fun of Bob’s unprecedented demand comment but it’s 100% true. And this is with the borders closed! Imagine how bad it will be once foreigners are allowed back in the country. Now there’s an even bigger pool of people to take your place.

All of that is short-term due to revenge travel. When the borders re-open, the traffic flows both ways. Domestic travel is at a high right now because there aren't too many places we can go. But if I have a choice between a week at Disney or a week in Italy (or Japan, Greece etc) for the same amount of scratch, I'm going to be looking hard at what I'm going to get in return for my dollars.

Customer retention is not something that should be easily dismissed. That's what gets you through the lean times. When you have a loyal customer base, you cater to them. That doesn't mean that you don't also seek out new customers as well. But you need to offer all of them a level of customer service that makes them feel like they are important to you. Because it's the unhappy customer that takes to the internet and blasts you for all to read while the happy customer tells all their friends and neighbors what a great experience your business provides.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

And there are some people that go year after year without ever using/figuring out fp, ADR’s, etc…. and they love it! Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

My first trip I didn't know anything about anything. I took my 3 year old. I didn't even know Disney had restaurants! LOL I thought QS was it. We had a great time. I didn't find out about ADR's and character meals and FP until 4 weeks before my next trip which was years later. I made a few ADRs for character meals and we were hooked. Heck my XH went EVERY summer as a kid and had no idea there were actual restaurants and character meals in the parks. They packed lunches and snacks and barely even had QS in the parks. And he has always loved Disney.

 

[CSLucas]

I mean i get what you're saying, but we still have resorts that are still closed, we've got 2 value resorts that are sitting empty. that's what, 3500-4000 hotel rooms itself? Let's see how things look when resorts are 100% open.

I bet if all those resorts were open, AK wouldnt be your cheapest option. Then again, October is different also, its the start of the 50 year celebration.

To me, this just further shows that Disney isn't really interested in expending a lot of resources chasing down every last dollar - they are more interested in putting those resources towards areas with higher profit margins. As someone pointed out earlier, it's basic math - you can have half of capacity paying twice as much and suddenly you have way less overhead and the same amount of revenue

 

[ChipnDale79]

To me, this just further shows that Disney isn't really interested in expending a lot of resources chasing down every last dollar - they are more interested in putting those resources towards areas with higher profit margins. As someone pointed out earlier, it's basic math - you can have half of capacity paying twice as much and suddenly you have way less overhead and the same amount of revenue

Those resorts arent open because of staffing issues. Disney wants every resort filled to capacity all the time.

They arent going to let those resorts sit empty for another year.

 

[cakebaker]

The people who don't bother to figure it out are probably the same ones who didn't use the paper fastpasses because they just assumed you had to pay for them. If you don't bother to do any research for a trip it's your own fault if you have a worse experience.

And they’ll be the ones who don’t understand whatever replaces FP+. The idea that people are going to walk around dazed and confused because they don’t know how to obtain a FP and that Disney shouldn’t reintroduce it because of that is ridiculous.

Maybe they should do away with bus service. Some guests don’t understand it either and it’s been around longer than FP. I still remember the argument on a bus when one person announced to their group that it didn’t matter what bus you were on, they all went to the MK eventually. It was a bus to Disney Springs.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I still remember the argument on a bus when one person announced to their group that it didn’t matter what bus you were on, they all went to the MK eventually. It was a bus to Disney Springs.

Im surprised they didnt think it went to Islands of Adventure

 

[cakebaker]

And there are some people that go year after year without ever using/figuring out fp, ADR’s, etc…. and they love it! Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Those of us who go a lot forget just how amazing that first trip can be.

We took a first timer a few years ago. We’re all whining about the crowds, the bad weather, some incident when Disney wasn’t stellar and he was oblivious to it all. He was, and it’s a phrase I always cringe when using...just happy to be there. Btw, he’s scheduled for a future trip with us as soon as Disney is fully back. We had to talk him out of going on our trip this month with his now wife, who’s never been.

 

[CSLucas]

Those resorts arent open because of staffing issues. Disney wants every resort filled to capacity all the time.

They arent going to let those resorts sit empty for another year.

But staffing issues are just the other side of the same coin - it's Disney being unwilling to devote those resources to those hotels because they can get a much higher return on those resources if they invest them elsewhere.
I don't think they will let them sit empty forever, no. But they also have made the decision that the rate of return on values doesn't make it worth the resources it would take to get them open.