State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[cakebaker]

I think that’s unfair. I’ve only been once with Fastpass+, am a computer wiz, and I tried refreshing every now and then and got nothing useful for our party. It wasn’t obvious, and what you were doing definitely falls under power user.

only reason we loved it was because we had 12 fast passes from DVC. Those were awesome.

We rarely spent time refreshing the screen, it wasn't neccessary for us and it's not for anyone else either. Knowing good strategies is not a flawed system. If you like to ride as much as possible or re-ride popular rides, it's on you to find out if there's a way to have a better chance of doing that.

 

[ForWhomTheMouseTolls]

So how did it work?

 

[Marionnette]

.

Yes that in it's simplest form is how it works. But many people don't necessarily know the exact time the booking windows open, or necessarily that it's 60 days from the first day of your resort stay as opposed the 60 days from the park day, or the different ways to continually hunt and modify daily, or to continually "pound the app" (and the fact that there is an actual hashtag for it) or to the special daily time drops for those in the know.

So I stand by my assessment. It's a broken system that is to the advantage of the most studied/knowledgable and the only people who think it's fine are the ones who know how to game every element that the average person doesn't know about to get ahead, similar to the tax system.

So in your book, any system that doesn’t automatically pick and reserve a return time for a fixed number of attractions per guest is basically flawed? Just asking because that seems to be what you’re implying. Guest A knows to book 60 days in advance and gets all the headliners at MK for his 3 FP+. Guest B doesn’t know he can do that and waits until he arrives at the park and ends up with the teacups, Monsters Laugh Floor and Phiharmagic. Therefore the system is flawed and needs to be tossed?

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Is it evil to say this is good news?

Lol I can’t speak to whether it’s Disney’s “stellar” IT or a sign of something with the test, but I’d be so ok if it failed and they took it as a sign to bring back old FP+ for now and work out the issues.

 

[Tink-aholic]

Yes that in it's simplest form is how it works. But many people don't necessarily know the exact time the booking windows open, or necessarily that it's 60 days from the first day of your resort stay as opposed the 60 days from the park day, or the different ways to continually hunt and modify daily, or to continually "pound the app" (and the fact that there is an actual hashtag for it) or to the special daily time drops for those in the know.

So I stand by my assessment. It's a broken system that is to the advantage of the most studied/knowledgable and the only people who think it's fine are the ones who know how to game every element that the average person doesn't know about to get ahead, similar to the tax system.

I will disagree on one point: those who weren't "in the know" didn't know that FP+ could be used more advantageously. Yes, that sentence is redundant, but that is the point. The alternative was to wait in longer lines and have less time to enjoy the parks/lesser attractions/eat/shop. People who didn't know better still used the FP+ system to their benefit. I went plenty of times and the only time I ever saw them run out of FP+ spots were for brand-new Super Headliners (like FOP). Then, everyone still had the opportunity to wait in line.

However, people who don't know how to score a Boarding Group on RoTR will not get a chance to experience that attraction at all. That is the one that seems to fit your complaints better, IMO.

 

[TommyJK]

Lol you are on a Disney forum so I’m assuming you’ve already been down all these rabbit holes. But there are far more complicated systems that you NEED to know before even entering the park. The fastpass system, imo was relatively easy to understand in comparison. Because we are talking about a fastpass ride reservation system, where you literally pick Space Mountain 60 days out at a specific time. And then you ride it when you get there. And you are comparing that to the most complicated tax system in the world as if everyone here who understand the fastpass concept is some rocket scientist. I’ll take the compliment, but at the end of the day, this was a very ridiculous way to present your feeling about a system that CAN be complicated, but no where near as complicated as you are exxagerating it to be. But, to each their own I guess.

That's exaclty it. I'm on a Disney forum with people who have been a bazillion times and live and breathe everything about the parks and know every ounce there is to know. It's an echo chamber of the most dedicated. Like if you don't get the fast pass for your group then you should try to book for 1 person, then adding the other members of your party one at a time as that can often work when you couldn't do the party all at once. Or to book single separate, but overlapping times so they are different but you all ride together in the window overlap. Or to strategically start with picking your FPs for the later days first and work backwards becasue the majority book in the opposite manner. Again, all technically fine but a huge advantage for those in the intricate know vs. those trying for the first time.

 

[monstermash23]

Is it evil to say this is good news?

Not in my book

 

[monstermash23]

That's exaclty it. I'm on a Disney forum with people who have been a bazillion times and live and breathe everything about the parks and know every ounce there is to know. It's an echo chamber of the most dedicated. Like if you don't get the fast pass for your group then you should try to book for 1 person, then adding the other members of your party one at a time as that can often work when you couldn't do the party all at once. Or to book single separate, but overlapping times so they are different but you all ride together in the window overlap. Or to strategically start with picking your FPs for the later days first and work backwards becasue the majority book in the opposite manner. Again, all technically fine but a huge advantage for those in the intricate know vs. those trying for the first time.

Agreed that this is an echo chamber, but that’s about it. A lot of my point was totally missed here with this reply you made and even if you did address it, I still would completely disagree with your take here for many reasons, including what I’ve already stated and what others have stated too. But we are free to disagree and I won’t beat at a dead horse. Considering this dropped on my end and moving on.

 

[Disneylover99]

I think that’s unfair. I’ve only been once with Fastpass+, am a computer wiz, and I tried refreshing every now and then and got nothing useful for our party. It wasn’t obvious, and what you were doing definitely falls under power user.

only reason we loved it was because we had 12 fast passes from DVC. Those were awesome.

This is my take.……if you were doing this on your first trip, then you’re doing great. You were booking rides/attractions. Maybe I see things differently as I like to go over Christmas/New Years week. Everything is useful during that time. We do a happy dance when we get fp’s for Mickey’s Philiharmagic or Figment. Lol.

If you find nothing useful for your party, it sounds like you’re going at a less busy time, and maybe fp’s are not as necessary for many attractions then.

 

[Gumble]

Just seen the update regarding Disneyland Paris trialing payment for fast passes and am so disappointed. I am from the UK and watched the introduction of payment for fast passes at Universal with dismay years ago but never thought Disney would stoop that low... Then came paying for parking at your hotel and the cancellation of the Disney express service from the airport. I have visited WDW and Paris over the last 30 years regularly but if paying for fast passes comes in, my next trip booked for 2022 will be my last. Its a bridge too far and creates an us and them situation... Those that can afford to pay and those that can't. I'm sure that Walt never intended that this would be the case. This is the first time I have ever posted on any bulletin board but felt I had to express my disgust at the sheer greed.

 

[CSLucas]

That's exaclty it. I'm on a Disney forum with people who have been a bazillion times and live and breathe everything about the parks and know every ounce there is to know. It's an echo chamber of the most dedicated. Like if you don't get the fast pass for your group then you should try to book for 1 person, then adding the other members of your party one at a time as that can often work when you couldn't do the party all at once. Or to book single separate, but overlapping times so they are different but you all ride together in the window overlap. Or to strategically start with picking your FPs for the later days first and work backwards becasue the majority book in the opposite manner. Again, all technically fine but a huge advantage for those in the intricate know vs. those trying for the first time.

I will agree with this, and also add that first-time park-goers are at a huge disadvantage because they simply don't know how long it takes to get around the parks. Yes, there are maps. Those maps don't account for massive crowds at certain places at certain times, or what to do when they suddenly close down major areas of parks (looking at you, Epcot). It would have been awesome if someone had told me to book the ride we wanted and then 2 "throw-away ones" close to that time and then pick up ones in another area of the park later. And yes, the system is of course easy to learn once you've been to Disney once, but I'd bet anything that Disney is seeing a good number of families who decide after the first trip that it just wasn't worth the hassle and never make it over that hurdle. We left Disney with no intention of EVER coming back (we even left a day early and just forfeited the rest of our hotel stay at Beach Club and our park tickets). The only reason we returned was that we were gifted a trip as a thank-you. There is a HUGE difference between being a first-timer and a repeat guest.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

Universal doesn't give it to all their guests though. Just the ones paying 400 500 600 a night rooms. In
other words deluxe. We are going in Nov and/or Dec. I picked a random Wednesday not near a holiday and
the lowest fast pass room was 400. All other hotels nearby are in the 100-150 range.

What i don't understand though looking at the crowds and lines at Universal are a lot of people paying
these high fast pass prices or just standing in long lines? For Universal to continue to raise the price tells
me. When they were first offered weren't they around 40 or 50 bucks?

They will let you buy one for an additional $109 or ... for us it was the same price as a room so we did that.
I really disliked FP because we are people that go 2 or 3 days all the good rides went to people who were 5+ and so on. When I did get a popular ride I was crisscrossing the park to get there...

Also read that paris is resuming Annual pass sales July 15th. I really wish Florida would resume APs.

 

[TommyJK]

Universal doesn't give it to all their guests though. Just the ones paying 400 500 600 a night rooms. In
other words deluxe. We are going in Nov and/or Dec. I picked a random Wednesday not near a holiday and
the lowest fast pass room was 400. All other hotels nearby are in the 100-150 range.

What i don't understand though looking at the crowds and lines at Universal are a lot of people paying
these high fast pass prices or just standing in long lines? For Universal to continue to raise the price tells
me. When they were first offered weren't they around 40 or 50 bucks?

I just did a search Nov 8 - 12 and Royal Pacific (which is a deluxe that comes with free Express pass) is $284.80 a night

 

[TDSAXX]

12 FP was easy peasy at MK in one day, and harder, but doable at the other 3. The busier the parks, the easier it was too. More people there meant more people cancelling/changing their plans. Getting less than 10 FPs at MK was a "failure" (I use that term loosely) for us.

Busier parks also generally meant longer hours. More time to snag extra FP+.

 

[jujubiee4]

I just did a search Nov 8 - 12 and Royal Pacific (which is a deluxe that comes with free Express pass) is $284.80 a night

Our date is Wednesday Nov 17th....$400

 

[Roxyfire]

I will agree with this, and also add that first-time park-goers are at a huge disadvantage because they simply don't know how long it takes to get around the parks. Yes, there are maps. Those maps don't account for massive crowds at certain places at certain times, or what to do when they suddenly close down major areas of parks (looking at you, Epcot). It would have been awesome if someone had told me to book the ride we wanted and then 2 "throw-away ones" close to that time and then pick up ones in another area of the park later. And yes, the system is of course easy to learn once you've been to Disney once, but I'd bet anything that Disney is seeing a good number of families who decide after the first trip that it just wasn't worth the hassle and never make it over that hurdle. We left Disney with no intention of EVER coming back (we even left a day early and just forfeited the rest of our hotel stay at Beach Club and our park tickets). The only reason we returned was that we were gifted a trip as a thank-you. There is a HUGE difference between being a first-timer and a repeat guest.

Just like any other system, it takes time for people to learn and understand. Some will figure things out on their own, others will share information with others. I'm not entirely sure what the complaint is. The whole idea of FP+ strategy is made when people over think. Yes there's lots of things you can do to "optimize" but at the end of the day, the point is to pick up to 3 rides you want to ride in advance and after those are used up you can get one more at a time. People add the complexity on their own. That system is probably gone now and we will all have to figure out a new one. That's the fun part.

 

[IanDLBZF from MCMagic]

It is a perfect example of different approaches for different properties:
- California = MaxPass - high number of local attendees, lower cost option, digital, day of
- Tokyo = Free FastPass - high number of local attendees, free option, day of with limited exceptions for resort guests, day of, some attractions are virtual queue & lottery based like RotR
- Shanghai and Paris = Disney Premier Access - mix of local and tourist, smaller number of attractions, pay to ride system, with some option for virtual queue at least in Paris
- WDW - This is purely speculation from a program/execution perspective. But it draws mainly a tourist audience, has the most attractions of any Disney resort worldwide. Any system likely benefits “loyal” or onsite guests and offers fewer advantages for offsite or day guests. I’d wager a hybrid of free and pay, possible pre-booking for resort, but day of for offsite/day guests

Another example:
- HKDL - Disney Priority Special - Mix of Local and Tourist, smaller number of attractions. 3 free FastPass attractions, plus paid option which works like Universal Express.

 

[TDSAXX]

That's exaclty it. I'm on a Disney forum with people who have been a bazillion times and live and breathe everything about the parks and know every ounce there is to know. It's an echo chamber of the most dedicated. Like if you don't get the fast pass for your group then you should try to book for 1 person, then adding the other members of your party one at a time as that can often work when you couldn't do the party all at once. Or to book single separate, but overlapping times so they are different but you all ride together in the window overlap. Or to strategically start with picking your FPs for the later days first and work backwards becasue the majority book in the opposite manner. Again, all technically fine but a huge advantage for those in the intricate know vs. those trying for the first time.

It seems that Disney isn’t factoring how valuable that group of customers is to their bottom line. We may not spend as much per trip as the once in a lifetimers; but multiply what we do spend by a bazillion and that’s a big chunk of dough.

 

[CSLucas]

Just like any other system, it takes time for people to learn and understand. Some will figure things out on their own, others will share information with others. I'm not entirely sure what the complaint is. The whole idea of FP+ strategy is made when people over think. Yes there's lots of things you can do to "optimize" but at the end of the day, the point is to pick up to 3 rides you want to ride in advance and after those are used up you can get one more at a time. People add the complexity on their own. That system is probably gone now and we will all have to figure out a new one. That's the fun part.

not so much a complaint as an observation from personal experience. With Disney seemingly targeting those first-time guests who will spend more for a once-in-a-lifetime trip, it makes sense to me that fastpass as it was didn't suit the bill. I think people are focusing primarily on the narrative that Disney is doing this to be "greedy" and discounting people who are posting that the system wasn't all that great to begin with. I have no doubt that money plays a huge part (even to the point of being the main driver) in this decision, but I also think Disney potentially sees a way to actually improve guest experience for a target group.
Either way, I guess we will all find out soon enough.

 

[TommyJK]

It seems that Disney isn’t factoring how valuable that group of customers is to their bottom line. We may not spend as much per trip as the once in a lifetimers; but multiply what we do spend by a bazillion and that’s a big chunk of dough.

But that's the thing. Disney has you. And as disappointed as you are with the possibility of them instituting paid FP+, you will still likely go back. I see a ton of long time goers saying "This is it, I'm done this time" and for some that might be true, but I'm guessing the vast majority of super Disney fans will still go. They indeed value you but I'm sure their research is also telling them that while a move like this would upset you, you're still likely going back.

But on the flip side we have someone like @CSLucas who had a less than pleasant experience trying to do what he wanted to do on his first trip and won't go back. And Disney is probably noticing this with many first time visitors through surveys, feedback etc.

Losing 10% of long time visitors is probably more favourable to them than losing 50% or more future new repeat visitors because they had a bad first experience.