Unbalanced Resort Ressies

[BWV Dreamin]

What would happen if people purchase at the new resorts only to reserve at the smaller or more popular resorts? If there were obvious vacancies at the newer resorts and older ones became full, would Disney do anything about that? Is this when they may change the point structure at certain resorts? Has this been done in the past, and why if so?

 

[jekjones1558]

Inside the 7 month window, the smaller resorts are already harder to book. If members booked at their home resorts only, then it seems that the percentage of vacancies would be equal at all resorts and that is not the case. Disney can, at any time, shift point costs but cannot change the total points needed for a resort. So if, for example, Disney decided to raise point costs for beginning of December and F & W dates at BWV and BCV, then Disney would have to lower point requirements by an equivalent amount for some other times or room categories at those 2 resorts. I doubt that this would significantly improve the situation. The easiest solution would be to only allow reservations at home resorts (and that is an option Disney could exercise), but even that would not totally fix the problem since there would probably still be an uneven level of requests for particular dates or room categories. I think that the issue of hard-to-book dates and resorts is an inherent part of a point system versus a fixed-week program. JMHO, YMMV.

 

[salmoneous]

Basically, all the resorts are going to be full one way or the other - there aren't going to be huge vacancies. But if people buy into newer resorts with no intention of staying there - and if owners at the older resorts don't want to stay at the newer resorts, then demand does get unbalanced.

What will happen is that owners at the older resorts will quickly learn they have to book during the 11-7 month window if they want to stay at their home resort. And they will. So when the folks at the newer resorts try to book at the older resorts, the old resorts will be full and they will be "stuck" at their newer resorts.

There's nothing for Disney to "do". In particular, they can't restructure points between resorts. People will just end up staying mostly in their home resort.

I'm made this very simplistic and assumed nobody wants to stay at the new resorts and everybody wants to stay at the old ones. That's obviously absurd. But it's not absurd to think that there is somewhat more demand for the older resorts, which is driving more owners to book at their home resort during the 11-7 month window, and making it at least somewhat more difficult for people to book at other than their home resort at the 7-month mark. If more people buy into resorts intending to stay elsewhere, this phenomena will grow stronger.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I do not understand why this sot of unbalance would make them change the point structure at the resorts. Why would they do that, and how would that help? Disney can't change the total number of points on any chart...please explain. When they did tweak the numbers at the BWV, it was to add the category of "standard view." They did change some points per night at OKW, maybe I remember reading that GV points went up a small amount, but other types of rooms then had to be adjusted downward. When I look at the point charts, the hardest nights that I see paying points for are Saturday nights at HHI!

What may be done, but there would be outcries, is to change the 11 -7 month booking period. I think smaller resort owners would want a longer booking advantage. Other ideas that have been mentioned are giving home owners at a particular resort more clout in getting exactly the sort of room, location they require. There was a recent thread regarding guaranteeing sections at SSR...or changing the point structure there.

I hope we don't have an all out verbal war between small/large resort owners!
Each resort has many many defenders/detractors!

Bobbi

 

[crisi]

Is this when they may change the point structure at certain resorts? Has this been done in the past, and why if so?

No, that isn't why they'd change the point structure - they can't rebalance points BETWEEN resorts - which is what would need to be done.

They'd change the point structure if they said "gee, we have far too much demand for early December, but late August is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Lets make early December Adventure Season and late August value season (or whatever). There has been some speculation that they might try and even out weekends. I think either scenario is REALLY unlikely as it will cause a huge cry from the membership. They did it once early on, but DVC is much bigger now.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

No, that isn't why they'd change the point structure - they can't rebalance points BETWEEN resorts - which is what would need to be done.

They'd change the point structure if they said "gee, we have far too much demand for early December, but late August is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Lets make early December Adventure Season and late August value season (or whatever). There has been some speculation that they might try and even out weekends. I think either scenario is REALLY unlikely as it will cause a huge cry from the membership. They did it once early on, but DVC is much bigger now.

When did they change it, and where, was it BWV for the new studio rooms?

 

[Anthony1971]

DVC has been based around booking as soon as you can--if there one resort you would need to book as early as possible as that resort is your only cahnce of going on the dates you want. As it is now, although maybe not loved by all, if you book at the 11-7 month winodow you have a better chance of getting the you want at your resort as there will be many owners who want to stay at different resorts and need to wait for the 7 month window. As we see now it seems a lot of owners do book at thier home resort on some dates early and than cancel whne they get into the resort they want. The bottom line is if you want your home resort you have a fair amount of time to book it before others can and if you do not take advantage of this or can not well at least you have a good chance of staying at Dsiney at an given time with shorter notice and maybe finding a resort you like as much as your home resort.
What I will always say is not every DVC resort may be ideal for every person but how anyone can have a bad time at one is beyond me there is ALWAYS something to like.

To answer the big question larger resorts may unbalance the number of people that want to stay at a small resort but it will better balance on the more popular times to stay at Disney

 

[crisi]

When did they change it, and where, was it BWV for the new studio rooms?

No, it was OKW very early in the program. As I understand, they moved around points at a few times of year and did something with weekends.

The created the BW Standard View rooms in a reallocation before the resort opened. So that wasn't really a reallocation.

 

[tjkraz]

What would happen if people purchase at the new resorts only to reserve at the smaller or more popular resorts?

The above can only happen when owners at a resort do not use their points to fully book the facility before 7 months. If BWV owners reserve 100% of the rooms at 7 months + 1 day, then no non-owners will be able to book BWV.

If BWV owners choose (collectively) to NOT fully book their resort at 7 months, availability is opened to the membership as a whole. Everything from that point forward is subject to availability. Those who choose not to book anything until 3 or 4 months out will have their choice of whatever is left.

All your Home resort gets you is that extra 4 month booking opportunity. Whether you choose to use it or not is up to you. Under 7 months you have no preferred status at any resort. That's the system we all bought into. In fact, the POS gives DVC the right to reduce the Home resort priority period to as little as one month.

Those who have a clear favorite resort and intend to stay there often may choose to buy into a specific resort for that extra booking window. We chose to buy into SSR primarily due to the longer ownership period, and have had little trouble using our points at other resorts. In 4 years as owners we've stayed at SSR 3x, BWV 3x, OKW 1x and BCV 1x.

 

[OneMoreTry]

Crisi said it -- they can't reallocate points from one resort to another or change the average point requirement at a given resort. They CAN however, increase the point requirement when they first open a new resort. THat allows prospective owners to see what they will be paying for a night's stay. Notice they did that with BWV versus OKW. This helps balance out the perceived value of each resort -- I think that's what you were trying to get at.

I'm wondering if they will do that with the new Contemporary Resort if and when...

The AKV will be comparable in size to SSR and OKW, which should take some of the 7 month pressure of poor little BCV.

 

[PamOKW]

DVC can also reduce the home resort advantage to as little as 1 month. This is something they did contemplate doing but I think reaction in surveys made them back away from it. To DVC, you are buying into the entire program. They don't owe us the home resort advantage and I think want to encourage the wide variety of options that we have.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The above can only happen when owners at a resort do not use their points to fully book the facility before 7 months. If BWV owners reserve 100% of the rooms at 7 months + 1 day, then no non-owners will be able to book BWV.

If BWV owners choose (collectively) to NOT fully book their resort at 7 months, availability is opened to the membership as a whole. Everything from that point forward is subject to availability. Those who choose not to book anything until 3 or 4 months out will have their choice of whatever is left.

All your Home resort gets you is that extra 4 month booking opportunity. Whether you choose to use it or not is up to you. Under 7 months you have no preferred status at any resort. That's the system we all bought into. In fact, the POS gives DVC the right to reduce the Home resort priority period to as little as one month.

Those who have a clear favorite resort and intend to stay there often may choose to buy into a specific resort for that extra booking window. We chose to buy into SSR primarily due to the longer ownership period, and have had little trouble using our points at other resorts. In 4 years as owners we've stayed at SSR 3x, BWV 3x, OKW 1x and BCV 1x.

This perspective kinda blows away the theory of "buy where you want to stay" doesn't it? So if Disney does ever excersise the right and reduce home advantage to '1 month " (don't see the real advantage here) then in effect those with more years and lower dues will really have the advantage. Hmmm, wonder what the sales pitch would be then for resales?

 

[bwvBound]

This perspective kinda blows away the theory of "buy where you want to stay" doesn't it?

Not at all? Owners have the exclusive right to book at their own home resort four months ahead of all other DVC owners. Take advantage of that window and enjoy it.

 

[OneMoreTry]

This perspective kinda blows away the theory of "buy where you want to stay" doesn't it? So if Disney does ever excersise the right and reduce home advantage to '1 month " (don't see the real advantage here) then in effect those with more years and lower dues will really have the advantage. Hmmm, wonder what the sales pitch would be then for resales?

How would a 1 month advantage be detrimental to those with higher dues? This would, it seems to me, actually give those with higher dues more exclusive access to their own "higher-dues resorts." It would prevent the "lower-dues" people from getting into the higher-dues resorts, which doesn't seem like an advantage to me.

EDIT: I now realize we read "1 month" differently. I interpreted it to mean that the window would go from 7 to 1 months and thereby giving owners ability to book 10 months before others.

Second, what does having "more years" have to do with it? Dues go up at old resorts every year. And if you buy resale your status is the same as a charter owner.

 

[tjkraz]

This perspective kinda blows away the theory of "buy where you want to stay" doesn't it?

I've long thought that the cliched "buy where you want to stay" is totally misleading. Too bad so many are latching onto it as if it were the DVC gospel.

We've had little trouble booking outside of our Home resort at 7 months. I don't mean to imply that it's possible year-round, but I think the difficulties of booking outside of one's home have been greatly exaggerated.

Although SSR is our first or second favorite, I usually book other resorts when available and get my SSR "fix" for short notice trips. Of my 3 stays at SSR, the first was an occasion when it was the only resort I was interested in booking. The other two times were booked on less than 4 months' notice. I believe OKW was also available but I happily stayed at my Home.

Others appear to favor the comfort of the 4-month booking advantage. I think that, combined with higher dues, is a steep price to pay for taking a contract that is 12 years shorter in the end.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I've long thought that the cliched "buy where you want to stay" is totally misleading. Too bad so many are latching onto it as if it were the DVC gospel.

We've had little trouble booking outside of our Home resort at 7 months. I don't mean to imply that it's possible year-round, but I think the difficulties of booking outside of one's home have been greatly exaggerated.

Although SSR is our first or second favorite, I usually book other resorts when available and get my SSR "fix" for short notice trips. Of my 3 stays at SSR, the first was an occasion when it was the only resort I was interested in booking. The other two times were booked on less than 4 months' notice. I believe OKW was also available but I happily stayed at my Home.

Others appear to favor the comfort of the 4-month booking advantage. I think that, combined with higher dues, is a steep price to pay for taking a contract that is 12 years shorter in the end.

Although I bought with the intent of mostly staying at BWV, I have to wonder if Disney is really going to tighten up the home resort booking feature because this will really negate the flexibility this timeshare is based on. So that they can continue sales at the newer resorts, they will never exclude or narrow down ability to stay at other resorts. Once a real problem is evident with booking at 7 mos. out, I do feel Disney will restructure something, thus leaving those paying higher dues with falling resale values something to think about.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

If its not broke, don't fix it.

DVC really has no interest in changing the home resort booking window until it has problems selling DVC units. I don't see this happening due to the 11 v. 7 booking window no matter what resort at WDW DVC is selling.

No matter how informed the potential new DVC buyer is, I think very few buyers actually appreciate the importance of that window. Even if they spend lots of time on the DisBoards, they will find plenty of people who report booking regularly within the 7 month window.

In addition, if DVC continues to create room categories as it did at AKV, this helps to sell the home resort booking window at that resort. Disney in general is carving up its hotels into more and more booking categories, so I think this will continue with DVC as well.

We bought at BWV in 2005 becuase of advice on these Boards that the 11 month window would be important if we wanted to book SV or BW view. So far, we have stayed 3 times, twice with BW view during F&W and once with SV. Our first trip, we booked within the 7 month window as soon as we got our first points. After that we have booked at least most of our nights 11 months out.

Just my thoughts -- Suzanne

 

[tjkraz]

Once a real problem is evident with booking at 7 mos. out, I do feel Disney will restructure something, thus leaving those paying higher dues with falling resale values something to think about.

I'll just point out that the whole question of "if" or "when" there will be a "problem" booking 7 months out is not exactly a new debate. It's been going on since I joined this forum over 5 years ago and truly dates back to when the second resort was introduced (those BWV rooms are so much smaller and cost more points--I'll NEVER get into OKW again!)

The only ones who have access to their Home resort at 11-8 months are the owners of a resort. And whether it's 2007 or 2037, the number of points at a resort cannot change (without additional construction, that is.)

The fact is that owners at BWV (or BCV or VWL, etc.) do NOT consistently book their home resort prior to 7 months. That means that there will OFTEN be rooms available at 7 months. It doesn't matter whether there are 100,000 or 500,000 DVC members. If the small subset of BWV owners doesn't fill their Home, there will be room for others.

What gets trickier is looking at the number of people trying to book the available rooms at 7 months. Obviously there is a lot more competition if you have 500K members competing rather than 100K members. The best way for DVC to control this is to build resorts with unique appeal. Right now BCV is probably the most in-demand resort. But will that still be the case when AKV is open? How about if the Contemporary is next? Disneyland? Hawaii?

People (still) like to beat-up on SSR as being sub-standard compared to the others. But the reality is it does have its own niche. It has the best spa and workout facilities in the program. It is the only DVC resort with an on-site golf course. It is the closest resort to Downtown Disney. While those features don't appeal to everyone, there clearly is a market for them. Perhaps one could argue that SSR is oversized now in comparison to other program inventory. But once DVC adds hundreds of room at AKV, the Contemporary, Disneyland and a handful of other sites, that disparity will quickly evaporate.

With every new resort that Disney adds to the program, demand will shift and change. Disney does retain the right to shorten the Home resort booking window, but I think it's far from a certainty that it will ever happen.

 

[Dean]

This perspective kinda blows away the theory of "buy where you want to stay" doesn't it? So if Disney does ever excersise the right and reduce home advantage to '1 month " (don't see the real advantage here) then in effect those with more years and lower dues will really have the advantage. Hmmm, wonder what the sales pitch would be then f itesales it

It's becoming more and more important to reserve right at 11 months out for most options. Those that can't do so are already seeing less and less options and that trend is very likely to continued. Those that are pretty flexible and tend to travel off season will still do well regardless however, they may also do well trading in.

Although I bought with the intent of mostly staying at BWV, I have to wonder if Disney is really going to tighten up the home resort booking feature because this will really negate the flexibility this timeshare is based on. So that they can continue sales at the newer resorts, they will never exclude or narrow down ability to stay at other resorts. Once a real problem is evident with booking at 7 mos. out, I do feel Disney will restructure something, thus leaving those paying higher dues with falling resale values something to think about.

There's no reason for Disney to change anything in this area. Any member who wants to reserve at their home resort books during that priority time which is currently four months the could be is little as one month. Anything after that you take your chances but there are ways to maximize your chances. Anyone who can't plan at least within the home resort window probably should not own Disney Vacation Club in most cases.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

It's becoming more and more important to reserve right at 11 months out for most options. Those that can't do so are already seeing less and less options and that trend is very likely to continued. Those that are pretty flexible and tend to travel off season will still do well regardless however, they may also do well trading in.

There's no reason for Disney to change anything in this area. Any member who wants to reserve at their home resort books during that priority time which is currently four months the could be is little as one month. Anything after that you take your chances but there are ways to maximize your chances. Anyone who can't plan at least within the home resort window probably should not own Disney Vacation Club in most cases.

Hi Dean! Yes, I do agree with what you are saying. (Less I dare disagree!) The whole notion of "home resort" just doesn't seem so advantageous when those that bought at their respective resorts have trouble getting ressies even withing the 11-8 mos home resort timeframe. If everyone who bought wanted to stay all at the same time, there should be enough accomodations for this. Its like overbooking a flight. You know there is always a chance not everyone will make or want the flight they've paid for. I just think everyone takes their chances at ressies anywhere, anytime, regardless of "home resort" advantages or not.