What happened to American optimism?

[tvguy]

Don't want to burst your bubble, but what goes up will come down when it comes to the stock market. We are currently on the second longest (closing rapidly on first position) "up" market in history. The market is self-correcting. I've lived long enough (as I know you have) to know that no winning streak lasts forever. I've seen a whole mess of major corrections, the most recent of which was 2008 (not even that long ago). But, we've been riding a big up market since then. It will end. That I say with 100% certainty. When is a big ol' guess, but if we go another 12 months without a major correction, I will be surprised.

Not if your financial adviser invests you in annuities that lock in a value when the market runs up. Of course, you have to take out no more than the annuities annual distribution to preserve the locked in cash value. The locked in value is voided if you take out the principle . But the annual allowed distribution is already more than I make a year, throw in Social Security, I'll be making more in 6 years retired than I am working

 

[NFLDERS]

Not if your financial adviser invests you in annuities that lock in a value when the market runs up. Of course, you have to take out no more than the annuities annual distribution to preserve the locked in cash value. The locked in value is voided if you take out the principle . But the annual allowed distribution is already more than I make a year, throw in Social Security, I'll be making more in 6 years retired than I am working

I'm a Canadian so optimism is similar, and yet different. DH, and I are retired baby boomers. We made provisions for our future needs. However, the reality is with placement one day probably inevitable at $3,500+ (2017 rate) a month each for our needs well, our provisions may never be enough. Let's just say this is where my pessimism lives.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I believe most Americans are still optimistic. You just don’t hear happy people complain, so they get less attention. IMO

 

[Colleen27]

And how much does not making the move cost?

Staying is an opportunity cost, but not a financial one. And there's no taking that opportunity if you don't have the money to get to where it is.

 

[VandVsmama]

A lot of folks are still plenty optimistic. Some of them are just quiet about it.

 

[LSUmiss]

Why I can't figure out is why more people don't move? Sure some do but why stay in a place where it is very difficult to make a living. I left Minnesota even though I liked it because the job prospects were terrible.

I think that’s easier said than done. I am not in this predicament & jobs in my field & my DH’s in my area are plentiful, but where we live our families have lived here for generations. It’s really hard to leave your home where you have so many roots.

 

[tvguy]

I'm a Canadian so optimism is similar, and yet different. DH, and I are retired baby boomers. We made provisions for our future needs. However, the reality is with placement one day probably inevitable at $3,500+ (2017 rate) a month each of our needs well, our provisions may never be enough. Let's just say this is where my pessimism lives.

If by "placement" you are talking about a retirement or care home, no problem there. I have long term care insurance with $4,000 a month payout per month indexed to inflation. My mom had it, her's was not indexed, but still paid $2,800 of her $3,300 per month care facility.

 

[LSUmiss]

And how much does not making the move cost?

Sorry, IMO there is also the social cost of leaving relatives & friends & kids starting over etc. My dad just recently passed away suddenly from pancreatic cancer so those things are always on my mind now. He lived close & we all spent time together a good bit so no regrets even though we miss him, but I can’t imagine if I would have moved away & not had the time we did since he died so young. Both DH & I have good & decent paying jobs, but we could both probably make a lot more in our fields if we moved. But, we will likely never do that for the above reasons.

 

[NFLDERS]

If by "placement" you are talking about a retirement or care home, no problem there. I have long term care insurance with $4,000 a month payout per month indexed to inflation. My mom had it, her's was not indexed, but still paid $2,800 of her $3,300 per month care facility.

Unfortunately, we both have hereditary factors (Alzheimers, Heart Disease, Diabetes, and Cancer) which made us non eligible... sigh.

 

[tvguy]

Unfortunately, we both have hereditary factors (Alzheimers, Heart Disease, Diabetes, and Cancer) which made us non eligible... sigh.

Really? Both my parents died from cancer, and I have diabetes. I had no issues at all getting coverage.

 

[Colleen27]

Sorry, IMO there is also the social cost of leaving relatives & friends & kids starting over etc. My dad just recently passed away suddenly from pancreatic cancer so those things are always on my mind now. He lived close & we all spent time together a good bit so no regrets even though we miss him, but I can’t imagine if I would have moved away & not had the time we did since he died so young. Both DH & I have good & decent paying jobs, but we could both probably make a lot more in our fields if we moved. But, we will likely never do that for the above reasons.

And sometimes that social cost has an actual price tag too, in terms of replacing "services" like childcare, household help, or eldercare once the family is too far apart to help one another.

 

[dosekies]

I find my optimism constantly waving. I graduated college 2 years ago and am still learning the ropes of 'adulting' and figuring out what I am doing. Personally, I think I am more often optimistic about the smaller things, and less optimistic about the bigger things. I was thrilled that my SO and I finally felt ready financially to get our own apartment. Now that we are juggling rent, car payments, school loans, etc. I generally feel more optimistic about our future because I know we are currently handling this situation well. However, I then think about us buying a house or having children and the optimism starts to waver. We both have good jobs and make decent money for 24 year olds, but I have no idea how we would ever afford a house anywhere near where we are now, which also is near where we both grew up and our families are. I also can't imagine being able to afford a child anytime soon. We talked about moving out of state, but my SO is in trade school and can't move until he finishes and then might have to go to school again in the new state. It isn't an easy decision.

Also, I completely agree with previous posters about how millennials definitely do not want to be in their parents' basements! Believe me, I did not want to be living at home after graduation, but with school loans and a car and everything else, moving out just wasn't feasible right away.

 

[MillauFr]

I think that’s easier said than done. I am not in this predicament & jobs in my field & my DH’s in my area are plentiful, but where we live our families have lived here for generations. It’s really hard to leave your home where you have so many roots.

I would just find it frustrating to live in a place where the state and local governments aren't doing more to grow the economy. Too many places could have great research universities that attract people that would start companies that hire people. It really isn't that hard to figure out how to grow the economy. You just spend tons of money on education and make sure your schools and colleges are #1.

 

[LSUmiss]

I would just find it frustrating to live in a place where the state and local governments aren't doing more to grow the economy. Too many places could have great research universities that attract people that would start companies that hire people. It really isn't that hard to figure out how to grow the economy. You just spend tons of money on education and make sure your schools and colleges are #1.

I agree that it is very frustrating, but for us, family & friends are more important to us so it’s a sacrifice we make.

 

[wgeo]

We've moved across country for my husbands job a few times. Each time he had the job lined up before we left, which makes a huge difference. Even so - it is very expensive to move, not just the moving costs you think of, but getting settled in the new place - new driver's license/car registration and getting new insurance and the kids registered at new schools, those are expensive and time consuming things. Things that were possible for us because I always plan on not working for the first few months after the move to take care of everything and get us settled, but of course that means a loss of income as well. We are able to do this because husband has a good salary starting immediately in the new place.

To assume that people are lazy or making poor choices because they are not moving to where the jobs are ignores some very true realities. Are they possibly missing a better paying job by not moving? Sure - but if they don't have the cash to get to the new place what should they do? Go deep into credit card debt hoping that they'll land a new job in the new town? And what landlord allows someone to pay rent with credit anyways? When they get to this new area away from their social networks, who watches the kids while they job hunt? What happens if they have a health issue in the new town before they're back on their feet and end up on public assistance? Will they then be villified for not doing it right? For coming into your area and taking away your benefits? I get frustrated when people suggest that someone should just "pick themselves up by the bootstraps" without acutally figuring out how someone could do that.

Optimistic - on some days I am sure. I see my kids and their friends growing into amazing people and I think good things will happen. I think we're in a bad place in this country/world right now, but I know from history that there are cycles and I trust that one day we will cycle out of this spot too.

 

[mjkacmom]

If by "placement" you are talking about a retirement or care home, no problem there. I have long term care insurance with $4,000 a month payout per month indexed to inflation. My mom had it, her's was not indexed, but still paid $2,800 of her $3,300 per month care facility.

Nursing homes where I live cost around $100,000 a year, assisted living a little less.

 

[tvguy]

Nursing homes where I live cost around $100,000 a year, assisted living a little less.

They were $2,500 to $8,000 a month here if you are a private pay/long term care insurance client when I had to select one for my mom. We have residential care facilities for the elderly here in California. They are homes in residential areas with no more than 6 residents, and 24 hour care. I selected one of these for my mom. The base rate there was $3,000 plus $300 for special care she needed as a stroke patient.
I know care/ nursing homes that accept Medicare/Medicaid eligible patients are less expensive.
Another popular option here is senior housing that has on sight assisted living, nursing home care and hospice. Those have a one time payment of $200,000 per person. Many choosing that option have sold their homes, that they owned outright. With an average home selling price of $347,000 in my county, enough people can come up with $200,000 that there is a waiting list a couple years long to get into those facilities.

 

[Liberty Belle]

They're around $5,000 - 8,000+ here. There may be a cheaper one that I don't know about. My son's academic team coach pays $2500 a week for full-time in-home care for her mother. I can't imagine.

 

[punkin]

I would just find it frustrating to live in a place where the state and local governments aren't doing more to grow the economy. Too many places could have great research universities that attract people that would start companies that hire people. It really isn't that hard to figure out how to grow the economy. You just spend tons of money on education and make sure your schools and colleges are #1.

I have to laugh at this. It actually really is hard. Simple solutions are simplistic and don't take important factors into account.

 

[crjack]

Same here in Boston area and even higher if you are in the memory impaired area where more staff is needed. Caring for aging parents is also another reason why people don't often move.

In general, healthcare and the price of college (and also it's returned value) is a major source of stress for most families. The cost of college is more well known but more and more people are seeing rising costs and reduced coverage in healthcare and are forced to try and make up the $ difference when already feeling their budgets stressed.

For me, I know healthcare is a complicated issue with lots of outside influences. The news reduces everything to a quick soundbite and it seems no one in politics wants to cooperate anymore (partly because of how voters react when they do) so that is one area I am very pessimistic. My fear is it will have to get really bad for so many people before we can have a real conversation about the tough choices ahead.