Why the single mom with kids argument?

[AndrewC]

I'm kind of in the ballpark of increasing prices to reduce crowds. I'm not sure how Disneyworld is (never been), but Disneyland just doesn't have the same space and ability to expand. It would suck for a bunch of people I'm sure, but I would be fine with a 30%+ price increase for tickets if that meant the longest lines were more like 30 to 40 minutes and no 60 to 90 minutes.

The problem is, they likely would get absolutely killed on food and merch sales from the lower volume of people, possibly to the point of actually making less money overall.

They probably just really need to get locals under control and either really increase the prices on those tickets (rather than decreasing or offering specific APs to them) OR just murder them on black out dates... like maybe every Friday - Sunday is blacked out except for Jan and Feb or something. They need the locals making the impulse visit on random days after work for a couple hours to do a couple rides, buy a bit of merch, or have dinner, and go home. BUT, they really need to aggressively keep them from clogging up holiday time and anywhere close to busy weekend/summer day. They obviously should be able to visit, but for the same price as everyone else.

 

[Beer Me]

if you were staying at Pop in 2019, you got a couple extra hours in the parks at night on certain days of the week, but now, you don’t. But you still do if you’re paying $500 to be at the GF.

Where are you seeing $500 rooms at GF? Sounds like a steal!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm saying the perception is Disney is out of touch to the general public, regardless of who the market of that trip is. We know this is for 1% but when the media reports (responsible/correct media issues aside) a new 109k Disney vacation that shows b-roll footage of families at domestic parks with banners at the bottom showing dismal economic indicators, it furthers the narrative of Disney being out of touch.

"Announcing a 109k ABD trip during a time of high inflation, $5.00/gal gas, and fears of a recession is so out of touch." it was not about a perception of others nor perception of what some media outlet chooses to pair together for optics, it was an affirmative comment of what you believe. You double-down on that by saying "It won’t stop us Disney goers from continuing to go, but it just looks bad." If you know it's for the 1%s why does it look bad? That's why I talked about the ABD product itself. Regardless of what new tour they announced you could say what you said because it's always going to be costly and unjustifiable to most people with stops that are, normally that is, of a grandeur lofty itinerary.

To put it a different way, I think we can say Disney is tone deaf at times probably more often than not these days (ain't that the truth) but to illustrate that point I would not use ABD, I would not use them creating a tour with a high flashy dollar sign as an example for that. Because that product will always be servicing a different clientele by design regardless of inflation, gas pricing and rumblings of a recession.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

Blah -- never mind, wrong thread.

 

[DLgal]

Where are you seeing $500 rooms at GF? Sounds like a steal!

LOL. I had the same thought.

 

[DLgal]

I'm kind of in the ballpark of increasing prices to reduce crowds. I'm not sure how Disneyworld is (never been), but Disneyland just doesn't have the same space and ability to expand. It would suck for a bunch of people I'm sure, but I would be fine with a 30%+ price increase for tickets if that meant the longest lines were more like 30 to 40 minutes and no 60 to 90 minutes.

The problem is, they likely would get absolutely killed on food and merch sales from the lower volume of people, possibly to the point of actually making less money overall.

They probably just really need to get locals under control and either really increase the prices on those tickets (rather than decreasing or offering specific APs to them) OR just murder them on black out dates... like maybe every Friday - Sunday is blacked out except for Jan and Feb or something. They need the locals making the impulse visit on random days after work for a couple hours to do a couple rides, buy a bit of merch, or have dinner, and go home. BUT, they really need to aggressively keep them from clogging up holiday time and anywhere close to busy weekend/summer day. They obviously should be able to visit, but for the same price as everyone else.

Respectfully, you don't know what you are talking about here.

Disneyland HEAVILY leans on their AP base, so much so that they pushed out the Magic Key program in a rushed/frantic way after an absolutely ABYSMAL summer in terms of attendance. It freaked them right out. They counted on "locals" just continuously buying day tickets, and when that didn't happen to their satisfaction, they were forced to restart the passholder program early.

The problem here has NOTHING to do with crowd levels. Attraction standby wait times were absolutely manageable all the way up until they launched the Genie. Then all hell broke loose. They have not dramatically increased attendance, despite what people think. (They publicly said as much)

The problem is the Genie. It's an unmitigated disaster. Just another example of their insistence on upcharging and delivering a subpar experience. Everything worked more smoothly with the old FP+/Maxpass Systems and it was FAIR.

 

[fumanchu2488]

I agree with a lot of the thought that we are getting less for the same (or more) cost, but I think that Disney sees this “a la cart” approach as not pricing people out. The alternative being a big increase in ticket prices like OP said.

Also, I wouldn’t lose sight of price increases everywhere. I have a trip scheduled in May 2023 and I was curious about other vacations. I looked at a Beaches Turks and Caicos trip for the same week. The cheapest room available for our family was over $8,100. I priced out a Riviera stay with theme park tickets and park hoppers and it was a little less than $7,200. I also compared a Marriott stay in Hawaii and a Marriott stay in Miami. All of those were at or above $6,500. I guess my point is everything in travel is expensive these days.

 

[fumanchu2488]

Respectfully, you don't know what you are talking about here.

Disneyland HEAVILY leans on their AP base, so much so that they pushed out the Magic Key program in a rushed/frantic way after an absolutely ABYSMAL summer in terms of attendance. It freaked them right out. They counted on "locals" just continuously buying day tickets, and when that didn't happen to their satisfaction, they were forced to restart the passholder program early.

The problem here has NOTHING to do with crowd levels. Attraction standby wait times were absolutely manageable all the way up until they launched the Genie. Then all hell broke loose. They have not dramatically increased attendance, despite what people think. (They publicly said as much)

The problem is the Genie. It's an unmitigated disaster. Just another example of their insistence on upcharging and delivering a subpar experience. Everything worked more smoothly with the old FP+/Maxpass Systems and it was FAIR.

I agree with everything you say here except combining FP+ and MaxPass. As someone who took a long WDW break before having kids and coming back into a FP+ system where I had to know the rides I wanted to ride 60 days out and compete with everyone at some arbitrary time in the morning that far out was definitely not “fair”. I have only been to DL once but I did use MaxPass and thought the system was definitely fair because you did the rides as you went that day.

 

[DLgal]

I agree with everything you say here except combining FP+ and MaxPass. As someone who took a long WDW break before having kids and coming back into a FP+ system where I had to know the rides I wanted to ride 60 days out and compete with everyone at some arbitrary time in the morning that far out was definitely not “fair”. I have only been to DL once but I did use MaxPass and thought the system was definitely fair because you did the rides as you went that day.

Well, I was also not the biggest fan of FP+ but it seems absolutely better than the cluster that is Genie+ at WDW.

Really, WDW should have adopted Maxpass and kept the paper FP option. Maxpass was a perfect system. Their over reliance on tech is gonna be their downfall.

By "fair", I just meant that everyone had the same chance after scanning in (or 60 days in advance). We never had a problem getting the rides we wanted on FP+ at WDW.

 

[fumanchu2488]

Well, I was also not the biggest fan of FP+ but it seems absolutely better than the cluster that is Genie+ at WDW.

Really, WDW should have adopted Maxpass and kept the paper FP option. Maxpass was a perfect system. Their over reliance on tech is gonna be their downfall.

The biggest difference I noticed was that with MaxPass at DL it is so easy to move between the 2 parks that you really had access to every ride. Genie+ reminds me a lot more of that than FP but at WDW the distance and challenge with getting between parks really makes it tough.

 

[DLgal]

The biggest difference I noticed was that with MaxPass at DL it is so easy to move between the 2 parks that you really had access to every ride. Genie+ reminds me a lot more of that than FP but at WDW the distance and challenge with getting between parks really makes it tough.

And Maxpass (like Genie+ at DL) requires EVERYONE to SCAN IN before they can book anything, so everyone starts on equal footing. The early birds have the advantage, but other than that, the system worked SO well.

The advanced booking part of Genie+ at WDW is what makes it so annoying and difficult to benefit from. I don't understand why they insist on doing it that way. Who wants to be up at midnight and then again at 7am on vacation? What an idiotic system.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

LOL Disney has literally brainwashed people into actually hoping they raise prices to help elevate crowds. We suddenly live in a world where people are actively asking Disney to please keep raising prices, whatever helps me from waiting on a line. No wonder they basically laugh and keep taking things away, and raising prices.

Crowds will always be high, no matter what the price.

And forget the single mom with 4 kids argument. It's more like every person who works for a living, yet still can't afford it argument.

 

[clarker99]

Is this a thread from 1985, 1995, 2005, 2015 or today? It literally could be dropped into any time line. Meanwhile parks are bursting at the seems and people pay the hotel rates. October is already seeing park reservations fill up for the long weekend. Lol. People vote with their wallets and no one is forcing people to go. The moaning about price is just silly bc it is not affecting attendance. And if attendance is affected they will offer discounts like they have always done.

 

[Jrb1979]

We should sticky @andyman8 post for at the top of each page so those who think it's about price will understand. This thread has nothing to do with pricing people out. More about the clientele Disney is after now.

For those in the back that don't get it this is the issue in a nutshell.

It’s less about rising prices (that’s been a tale as old as time as it relates to WDW) and more about the optics of cutting back the “base” experience while raising prices and very explicitly catering to the wealthy.

 

[GreatLakes]

I don't think bottom line price is the biggest negative right now with leadership. It is the perceived value. The need to pay for Genie +, ILL, the removal of perks, etc. I suspect had we still had legacy FP or FP+, morning and evening EMH, and less reliance on the app all day in the parks and tickets/hotels had price increases to make up that revenue difference you'd have less complaining.

The way you charge is often as, if not more important than, the actual price. There is a reason people will pay more for a known price than risk a variable price even if it comes in lower.

If we do see a recession, and I believe we will, I think you'll start to see some great values for WDW trips. I think a significant number of the people trying to sell DVC now are trying to shed expense as a lead in the the recession.

 

[Beer Me]

I agree with a lot of the thought that we are getting less for the same (or more) cost, but I think that Disney sees this “a la cart” approach as not pricing people out. The alternative being a big increase in ticket prices like OP said.

Also, I wouldn’t lose sight of price increases everywhere. I have a trip scheduled in May 2023 and I was curious about other vacations. I looked at a Beaches Turks and Caicos trip for the same week. The cheapest room available for our family was over $8,100. I priced out a Riviera stay with theme park tickets and park hoppers and it was a little less than $7,200. I also compared a Marriott stay in Hawaii and a Marriott stay in Miami. All of those were at or above $6,500. I guess my point is everything in travel is expensive these days.

Everything is more expensive. That is true. We are doing a beach trip this year and the condo is about double the price from just a couple of years ago.

But one difference between Disney and a lot of other destinations is Disney started from a position of being at the bleeding edge of what seemed reasonable. While I miss the Disney rates of the past it always seems a bit too expensive but you kinda twist your own arm to convince yourself to go. Now some of the prices just seem insane to me.

Meanwhile my beach condo at double the price still seems somewhat reasonable. And from your examples a week in Hawaii for 6500 seems like a much better value than disney’s riviera at 7200 (even with park tickets) but that’s subjective I realize.

 

[fumanchu2488]

Everything is more expensive. That is true. We are doing a beach trip this year and the condo is about double the price from just a couple of years ago.

But one difference between Disney and a lot of other destinations is Disney started from a position of being at the bleeding edge of what seemed reasonable. While I miss the Disney rates of the past it always seems a bit too expensive but you kinda twist your own arm to convince yourself to go. Now some of the prices just seem insane to me.

Meanwhile my beach condo at double the price still seems somewhat reasonable. And from your examples a week in Hawaii for 6500 seems like a much better value than disney’s riviera at 7200 (even with park tickets) but that’s subjective I realize.

Well it didn't include travel. I was strongly considering the Hawaii alternative but with two young kids and almost $3,500 in flights it was a no go. We are probably going to be driving to Orlando next may which is about 9 hours for us.

 

[fumanchu2488]

We should sticky @andyman8 post for at the top of each page so those who think it's about price will understand. This thread has nothing to do with pricing people out. More about the clientele Disney is after now.

For those in the back that don't get it this is the issue in a nutshell.

It’s less about rising prices (that’s been a tale as old as time as it relates to WDW) and more about the optics of cutting back the “base” experience while raising prices and very explicitly catering to the wealthy.

Serious question, is that a bad thing?

If they can capture that audience and live up to their standards (which is probably the biggest if), I don't see how it is a bad thing for them.

 

[nlenguyen]

Universal isn't immune to a price increase here and there - they got a third gate to pay for heading into a potential recession

We were looking at ticket prices for when we are going and Universal raised their price to where it is now more expensive than disneyworld tickets

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well it didn't include travel. I was strongly considering the Hawaii alternative but with two young kids and almost $3,500 in flights it was a no go. We are probably going to be driving to Orlando next may which is about 9 hours for us.

Although to be fair you're also comparing Marriotts in Hawaii. Hawaii like other island or tropical destinations will often command a higher price for name branded hotels. I've looked at several Hilton properties in Mexico (Riviera Maya for the most part) for our trip next year and yowza sure I can get an all-inclusive but they are sooo crazy dang expensive and not even that good but there's a trust factor in name branded hotels that I get.