What happened to American optimism?

[dish rag]

Why I can't figure out is why more people don't move? Sure some do but why stay in a place where it is very difficult to make a living. I left Minnesota even though I liked it because the job prospects were terrible.

I agree. I've made two huge moves in my life. You just to it. But I tend to be a go getter and do what needs to be done. Always am looking for a better way to go about things.

 

[Hikergirl]

Social media and 24 access to news killed it for me.
All I ever see/hear on the news is negative, which then trickles to social media because that is what everyone is talking about.
It is hard to be optimistic when that is all you are bombarded with.

I just live my life, I don't worry about all the negative because I know there is still alot out there worth being optimistic about. Maybe its stuff that only effects my life or the lives of those I love, but it's something. If I didn't have that something I think I'd go crazy.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

This guy Phil Chalmers visited my school a decade ago.

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/07/25/...-leading-juvenile-homicide-expert-258874.html

He said violent video games, movies, and music make people violent. He also said we were living in the end of times.

I commend anyone who fights bullying but I just had to laugh!

I can’t believe he still speaks at schools!

What happened to American optimism? Even though we may as well be in the end of times we should aspire and desire a future full of space travel and exploration!

Hard to be that optimistic these days. Often, people point to the stock market as a reason to be optimistic. As history has shown time and time again, there will be a day of reckoning.

 

[undertheradar]

There is a generation that is content living in Mom and Dad's basement.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Why I can't figure out is why more people don't move? Sure some do but why stay in a place where it is very difficult to make a living. I left Minnesota even though I liked it because the job prospects were terrible.

It's not always as easy as it sounds, particularly if you have family obligations or a spouse that still has a job.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Moving takes money - money for the physical move, for first/last/deposit on a new place of residence. It is also a big gamble for those at the lowest end of the spectrum, where jobs are mostly "apply in person" and there's really no way of lining something up before making the leap. Plus there's the time without a paycheck - after the old job ends, if there is one, before the first payday at the new - and potentially waiting periods for being able to resume any public assistance the family is receiving if the move takes them across state lines.

We hope to relocate to another state in a few years, when the kids are off to college, and we figure we need at the bare minimum 3 months' living expenses plus $10k for moving and securing housing to pull it off. Not many people who are living paycheck to paycheck or unemployed in a depressed area can put that kind of money together. And that's not taking into account family ties - lower income families tend to be more inter-generationally reliant, in terms of grandparents or aunts/uncles helping with childcare, adult and teen kids/grandkids helping with elder care, etc. Detaching from that non-monetary safety net incurs costs as well.



And that's another discouraging facet. It takes a lot more to get your foot in the door than it used to, which handicaps college grads who had to work their way through and didn't have the luxury of lining up an impressive portfolio of unpaid internships with the "right" companies. I've been seeing this a lot with my classmates - the middle class kids who had parental help with college and a car that they didn't have to pay for are doing far better, 6 months after graduation, than the ones who were too busy working to take on multiple internships and on-campus activities, or who were relying on public transportation and couldn't get to the most desirable student jobs. It is easily the difference of $10-15K in starting salary, not to mention a much easier path to a job in a hard field to break into.

Saw a blip on our local news outlet that said roughly 16% of factory line supervisors are degreed, but that 67% of the job openings at that level specify a degree as part of the minimum qualifications.

Then you have PP's example of HAVING a degree, but just not from the "right" school. The good ol' boys club is alive & well.

 

[Spencer Wright]

There is a generation that is content living in Mom and Dad's basement.

As a millennial I would like to please push back on this just a little bit.

I do not live with my parents and have not since about 20, and I would really have to find my self in desperate straits to move back in with my parents. However, I think if one looks at student loan obligations, cost of rents, and low incomes, living independently becomes increasingly impossible.

HOWEVER, there are many who are content to live with their parents and take Uber out to EVERY Friday/Saturday to 'hip and trendy' beer and burger places, spending what adds up to obscene amounts of money very quickly. I do believe my generation has a pervasive sense of entitlement in terms of feeling entitled to certain luxuries, like if you work all week you should be able to engage in extra activities to your hearts content without keeping cost in minds.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

HOWEVER, there are many who are content to live with their parents and take Uber out to EVERY Friday/Saturday to 'hip and trendy' beer and burger places, spending what adds up to obscene amounts of money very quickly. I do believe my generation has a pervasive sense of entitlement in terms of feeling entitled to certain luxuries, like if you work all week you should be able to engage in extra activities to your hearts content without keeping cost in minds.

Isn't that what's referred to as "The American Way?" lol

 

[lifesavacation]

I'm optimistic every time I look at how my 401k investments are performing .

Yep

 

[NYCgrrl]

College is not the answer to every question IF you don't have an understanding of what it will bring to you.
Case in point:

A dear friend felt it was important to home school her son for religious reasons. She scraped and saved to buy a homeschooling plan from an out of state religion based organisation. Her son then went on to fail the home state's grading system for a year or two. Or maybe three. Then she encouraged him to attend any college that offered a partial sports scholarship. It was head spinning for me so suffice to say I wasn't surprised that he didn't complete his BA in History until he was 27 y/o. During that time my same aged nephew had completed his 4 year program at Haverford and gone on to getting 2 master's degrees in financing and business management in an accelerated program @ Northeastern U. And purchased and sold an apartment in Brooklyn. And with his job at a 1st tier accounting firm, paid off ALL his school loans and mortgage. It as been intimated that nephew will announce his engagement to a young lady originally from a "the current administration would like to prohibit country" who has been attending uni here to be an engineer, this T-Day. His family is ecstatic.

On the other hand, the friend's son is saddled with various school debt, was only able to find a job starting as a bank teller and now has a low level mgmt position at a cable company, has been evicted twice from NY, moved to Jersey and has hopes that his girlfriend will move in with him to lighten the financial load.
You got to think before you leap and truly all educational experiences are not equal.

 

[melanielll]

I agree. I've made two huge moves in my life. You just to it. But I tend to be a go getter and do what needs to be done. Always am looking for a better way to go about things.

As my grandma used to say..some people wring their hands, some people roll up their sleeves.

 

[L&Lfan]

My friend home schools because she doesn't trust government schools. Her kids seem to be very bright so I hope they'll do fine in life.

 

[mnrose]

I'm optimistic every time I look at how my 401k investments are performing .

Don't want to burst your bubble, but what goes up will come down when it comes to the stock market. We are currently on the second longest (closing rapidly on first position) "up" market in history. The market is self-correcting. I've lived long enough (as I know you have) to know that no winning streak lasts forever. I've seen a whole mess of major corrections, the most recent of which was 2008 (not even that long ago). But, we've been riding a big up market since then. It will end. That I say with 100% certainty. When is a big ol' guess, but if we go another 12 months without a major correction, I will be surprised.

 

[RangerPooh]

Why I can't figure out is why more people don't move? Sure some do but why stay in a place where it is very difficult to make a living. I left Minnesota even though I liked it because the job prospects were terrible.

Moving is incredibly expensive. We have made three cross country moves for employment and each time it has set our family back financially for a few months. When moving you have expenses with new deposits, 1st and last months rents, moving trucks (uhaul or a company), utility deposits, deposits for cable/internet. The cost of gas to relocate... Then once you get to a new place there is no guarantee that it will work out. One chance that we took that took us from the west coast to Michigan had us arriving just as the economic crisis of 2008 was unfolding. A year later we were on the move again due to DHs job being eliminated/reduced.

Our most recent move was from the west coast to TN and we moved our family mid-school year. You know all of those supplies/fees you paid back in August, well you get to do it again at the new school. Then there was the fact that DH had a job and I spent the next month searching for one. To relocate takes money, commitment from all involved, and faith that things will be better. You also have to be willing to take risks. Not everyone with families are willing to do this. I know that very few of our friends are willing to, and as such many continue to struggle where they are.

 

[undertheradar]

There is the theory that you go where the work is. We moved from the East Coast to the Midwest. Downsized in the Midwest, found work on the West Coast. Found job with better cost of living and returned to the Midwest. We have moved our kids to new schools, new friends, and located places where we had no relatives or friends near. You go where the work is.

 

[Colleen27]

There is a generation that is content living in Mom and Dad's basement.

If there is, I haven't met them. Don't get me wrong, I know my share of basement dwelling millennials... none are happy with it. But when you're making $12/hr and have $300/mo payments on your average-sized student loans, plus the expenses of a car in the highest-insurance state, you can't afford rent. And no one seems to have the willingness to trust that a roommate relationship takes - the consensus among those I know is that's just opening yourself up to getting screwed over and having your credit destroyed.

Saw a blip on our local news outlet that said roughly 16% of factory line supervisors are degreed, but that 67% of the job openings at that level specify a degree as part of the minimum qualifications.

Then you have PP's example of HAVING a degree, but just not from the "right" school. The good ol' boys club is alive & well.

Yeah, I can't believe some of the jobs I see that want a degree. My husband is in construction and has come across ads that want college education even for that; if there's any management or supervisory function involved, a 2 year degree is a common expectation. And I'm currently in the running for an $11/hr job that requires a 4-year degree and 1-3 years of experience. It would be really hard to be optimistic if I was looking at trying to live on that wage while repaying student loans!

There is the theory that you go where the work is. We moved from the East Coast to the Midwest. Downsized in the Midwest, found work on the West Coast. Found job with better cost of living and returned to the Midwest. We have moved our kids to new schools, new friends, and located places where we had no relatives or friends near. You go where the work is.

And how much did each move cost?

 

[melanielll]

And how much did each move cost?

And how much does not making the move cost?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

And how much does not making the move cost?

When my job moved & I decided not to move with it, it was pretty much a wash.

 

[hopemax]

Why I can't figure out is why more people don't move? Sure some do but why stay in a place where it is very difficult to make a living. I left Minnesota even though I liked it because the job prospects were terrible.

Can't you say this about any period of human history? During the 70's my Dad couldn't find work where his family had lived for 100 years, and we moved out west. His sister also moved west, shortly before we did. But out of all our family, they were the only 2. During the Depression some men left their families to go where the jobs were, but a lot didn't. Not everyone who was unhappy about their lot in life in Europe picked up, and moved to America. Not everyone moved from the East Coast to the Frontiers out west, and so on through time. I'm sure there's some proper psychological or behavioral term, but I think it comes down to some sort of fight or flight response. I have a horrible wanderlust, DH and I left the place we grew up because we figured out our life could be better elsewhere. The rest of his family are basically staying put. Some people can live their entire lives and never leave their county, and in some places it's more prevalent than others. All the cool stuff in the world, but they are perfectly fine where they are. IMO, it's unreasonable to expect everyone to just pick up and leave. For some people, it's just not their nature. And heck, look how we treat people that do make the move, "all these people from X are ruining my community."

As for the topic at hand. I am extremely pessimistic in the short term, but in the long term, "arc of human history," I'm actually feeling more hopeful. People have to recognize there is a problem before you can attempt to make it better. And for better or for worse, a lot of eyes have been opened in regards to a lot of hot button issues. I do think it will get worse before it gets better. It's obvious, there are two trajectories playing themselves out across the US, and I can't help but think, "this is how civil wars get started." But I am also confident that long term, the victors will be the ones that embrace change, are inclusive and are more adaptable. Because that's the way it's always been. And it's not like those things haven't been on display throughout all of this pessimistic events. I'm learning 1/3rd of something is enough to really muck up the works, but that still leaves 2/3rds of something to steer the ship into better waters.

 

[jt'smom]

There is a generation that is content living in Mom and Dad's basement.

This always amazes me when I see people saying this. I'm 52, got a 21 year old college student, and while I do agree that my kid's generation has the sense of expecting granite countertops and ss appliances in their first apartment, LOL, I do think that my generation has to shoulder a large part of the blame for creating this. After all, these kids didn't crawl out of a pod. The Dis is a perfect microcosm of the parenting style that has directly resulted in the generation we have today! There are hundreds of threads where parents talk in detail about their own involvement in every tiny detail of their kid's lives... up through college and adulthood even. We are totally reaping what we have sown.

But that said, I don't think it's a lack of optimism in today's world, as much as just the natural rise and fall of societies. I'm as patriotic and love our country as anyone, but I think we have peaked and for the next couple of generations, will be on the slow decline in terms of "greatness", or however you want to define it. There are large chunks of the population that can't even give factual, objective assessments of current events because they only watch one news channel religiously, or get their info from crazy Facebook shares. It's like we've lost our ability to use our brain cells, and just regurgitate crazy crap we see on social media. But, that will change again 30 or 40 years from now, and things will swing the other way. We have encouraged our kid to think globally as far as settling down, and if a wonderful job opportunity gives him the ability to move to a different country, seize the chance and enjoy expanding his horizons.