Rented Points: Disappointed in Humanity

[Shanti]

What more than, essentially, “your reservation has been cancelled. Talk to your travel agent and ask them why they didn’t pay for your room” would you expect? That’s really the crux of it; Disney didn’t get paid for the room, so they canceled the reservation. In this case, it seems they were able to hold the inventory so it could be rebooked, which seems over and above what I would expect.

Disney did fine here. Another poster was complaining that Disney gave out too much info, & I disagreed.

They gave the needed basic info to the renter, just as they should have.

 

[TexasChick123]

WOW! This is terrible. Most people who rent points and have for years are honest. I've rented out a handful of times, but I try to be extremely available to my renters. I actually prefer transfers because it is easier for both me and the person to whom I am sending the points. However, I do have a rental booked for someone right now. Heck, I even have a rental booked for myself from someone else! I'm so sorry this happened to you, and I am sorry about the divorce. I'm glad you were able to make lemons out of lemonade in this situation with the last night. Sorry about the $500. I spend some crazy amount on DVC points, but I would be absolutely livid if this happened to me! Ignore anyone that says you shouldn't be mad. Just don't let it put you out too much as you have a lot going on right now. Sorry again, and I promise that most of us who rent points are honest.

 

[Bing Showei]

From a sociological perspective, I have to admit I'm a bit perturbed by the pitchfork and torch response this unfortunate event that has inspired. Not only did there seem to be a visceral knee-jerk reaction to story, but the eagerness to quickly attack those who would offer a differing perspective or a more measured voice was vicious.

While Nick at BWV desk deserves credit for what he did on the frontline, Disney should not be absolved for its role in how this all unfolded. If there were repeated warnings sent out owner, existing reservations should've been flagged. OP had multiple contact points with Disney and at no point were red flags raised. That's a failure of the system. I only wish there was some way for the machine to learn from this, but that's just wishful thinking.

Renter may have been a scammer, may be dead, who knows? What we do know is that @DVCjj handled this far more gracefully than could be reasonable expected in that situation. I especially appreciated your willingness to move on and try not to become jaded by the experience, something I know I could certainly aspire to. I hope you're eventually made whole again, whatever that might be for you.

 

[DVCjj]

From a sociological perspective, I have to admit I'm a bit perturbed by the pitchfork and torch response this unfortunate event that has inspired. Not only did there seem to be a visceral knee-jerk reaction to story, but the eagerness to quickly attack those who would offer a differing perspective or a more measured voice was vicious.

While Nick at BWV desk deserves credit for what he did on the frontline, Disney should not be absolved for its role in how this all unfolded. If there were repeated warnings sent out owner, existing reservations should've been flagged. OP had multiple contact points with Disney and at no point were red flags raised. That's a failure of the system. I only wish there was some way for the machine to learn from this, but that's just wishful thinking.

Renter may have been a scammer, may be dead, who knows? What we do know is that @DVCjj handled this far more gracefully than could be reasonable expected in that situation. I especially appreciated your willingness to move on and try not to become jaded by the experience, something I know I could certainly aspire to. I hope you're eventually made whole again, whatever that might be for you.

Thank you for your kind words.

 

[Beesknees6]

From a sociological perspective, I have to admit I'm a bit perturbed by the pitchfork and torch response this unfortunate event that has inspired. Not only did there seem to be a visceral knee-jerk reaction to story, but the eagerness to quickly attack those who would offer a differing perspective or a more measured voice was vicious.

While Nick at BWV desk deserves credit for what he did on the frontline, Disney should not be absolved for its role in how this all unfolded. If there were repeated warnings sent out owner, existing reservations should've been flagged. OP had multiple contact points with Disney and at no point were red flags raised. That's a failure of the system. I only wish there was some way for the machine to learn from this, but that's just wishful thinking.

Renter may have been a scammer, may be dead, who knows? What we do know is that @DVCjj handled this far more gracefully than could be reasonable expected in that situation. I especially appreciated your willingness to move on and try not to become jaded by the experience, something I know I could certainly aspire to. I hope you're eventually made whole again, whatever that might be for you.

Completely agree... and well said

 

[bumbershoot]

OP said she got “air” for 3MONTHS prior... hardly a possibility for a last minute chance for not knowing the situation

I feel like maybe we’re underatanding the air thing differently, since you’re quoting it?

OP said “when I emailed for him to make a return Magical Express once I got air about 3 months prior, he said to have MS do it.“ She bought airfare and he had her call to get dme.

I feel like you’re reading it as her joy hearing from him for 3 months.

SOMEONE owed me some explanation, little that it was

I just don’t know that you were, though. The Boardwalk guy might very well have given you too much info.

My guess is that the rented day was in May but the OP checked into BWV on her points in April. Whatever happened to the points had a deadline of April 30th.

Ooh, interesting.

Both times it had to do with my Disney Visa card being reissued with a new expiration date. I don’t go to the front desk to check out so I did not know that my card was declined. And Disney never notified me.

We once checked out of SSR, where we had room charging set up bc of problems that caused them to put a credit on the account. Because of the credit the charge ended up being about $5.

We moved straight over to WL and set up room charging with the same card. We stashed bags and headed to Epcot. Used the room charge several times that day.

That evening while waiting for our TS, I checked my Dvc account for some reason that had been forgotten. And for the first time ever I saw charges *in red* popping up on the home page. (This was a few years back before MDE showed charges)

Turned out that the $5 charge caused our bank to cry “fraud” and they shut down our account. (Annoying memory since recently there was actual fraud on the same account and Chase caught after the account was almost drained and NEVER contacted me...got the money back and I got a new card overnighted, then it happened again, same week, and they still didn’t contact me)

For some reason this wasn’t caught at WL, and for some reason WL was trying to charge each individual charge to the bank as we went, and it was getting declined. Except we didn’t know it.

It was very very strange. Since I caught it randomly that night, I don’t know how it would have been handled, but they certainly weren’t calling us!!!

When you mention if a renter doesn’t pay their bill upon checkout that the owner is on the hook for this, how would this happen? Don’t renters have to secure a credit card upon check-in as well, or is this handled differently?

See above. One weird situation. Others can have actual fraud on their accounts causing the cc they put down for online checkin to not work. Etc.

Tons of righteous reasons for a person to have charges that weren’t taken care of before they left. Also non righteous reasons. And Disney has a history of not contacting people properly to inform them of problems.

And this is why it irks me that the Boardwalk guy gave the info he gave. It’s enough for random speculation, and not enough to know of it was a Disney problem or an owner problem, and not enough to know if the owner caused it or it was an accident.

 

[Wakey]

How would you expect a broker to “make it good?” They’re contractual responsibility is to refund your money. We’ve seen it happen in the past. They aren’t going to pay 2x-3x what you paid them just to put you in a room and save face.

Even getting your money back, if all that is what you get, is making it good compared to getting zilch.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

What more than, essentially, “your reservation has been cancelled. Talk to your travel agent and ask them why they didn’t pay for your room” would you expect? That’s really the crux of it; Disney didn’t get paid for the room, so they canceled the reservation. In this case, it seems they were able to hold the inventory so it could be rebooked, which seems over and above what I would expect.

Disney did fine here. Another poster was complaining that Disney gave out too much info, & I disagreed.

They gave the needed basic info to the renter, just as they should have.

I would be that other poster. And yes, it would be fine to say that the reservation hasn't been paid for.

But it wouldn't be fine to say, the check bounced or their credit card has been rejected and this is the 5th time it has happened. It also wouldn't be okay to say, here, let me give you his phone number and email address, so you can call him. Or, we've been trying to contact him for a month, maybe you will have better luck.

I would be pretty upset if Disney started giving information out about me or my contract with them.

 

[Marionnette]

How would you expect a broker to “make it good?” They’re contractual responsibility is to refund your money. We’ve seen it happen in the past. They aren’t going to pay 2x-3x what you paid them just to put you in a room and save face.

An offer to help the renter secure another reservation would just be good business practice. Although, if nothing is available there's not much that can be done. I don't know if David's has a TA affiliated with their business but I know that if we cannot give a customer what they want/need (we are NOT in the travel industry), we have a number of other businesses to which we will refer them.

 

[larissawbb]

So is transferring safer than renting points?

 

[Chuck S]

So is transferring safer than renting points?

I suppose that depends upon the circumstances. I would imagine if there were fees owed by the original contract owner that even reservations with the transferred points would be cancelled.

 

[rlduvall]

So is transferring safer than renting points?

I suppose that depends upon the circumstances. I would imagine if there were fees owed by the original contract owner that even reservations with the transferred points would be cancelled.

While I am very reluctant to correct Chuck S because he's been around even longer then me . . . transferring points is a final transaction. Meaning that once the transferred points are in the transferee account, DVC will not "withdraw" them should the transferor become delinquent on their account. I know this because I have points transferred into my account WAY TOO MUCH!!!

 

[Chuck S]

No problem with the correction I've never transferred. That is interesting. But I'm surprised it actually can work that way, even though technically you are correct that it is a final transaction, since it would seem to be a way to scam the system. I you had a relative that also owned DVC, you could technically transfer all of your points to their account then default on payment and still use those points. If that were to happen a often, I'm sure DVC would close that loophole in a hurry.

 

[Woody412]

No problem with the correction I've never transferred. That is interesting. But I'm surprised it actually can work that way, even though technically you are correct that it is a final transaction, since it would seem to be a way to scam the system. I you had a relative that also owned DVC, you could technically transfer all of your points to their account then default on payment and still use those points. If that were to happen a often, I'm sure DVC would close that loophole in a hurry.

I think it would be a difficult loophole to close. Once you transfer your points they no longer belong to you, though they are still subject to the use year/home resort that they are attached to.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

While I am very reluctant to correct Chuck S because he's been around even longer then me . . . transferring points is a final transaction. Meaning that once the transferred points are in the transferee account, DVC will not "withdraw" them should the transferor become delinquent on their account. I know this because I have points transferred into my account WAY TOO MUCH!!!

This is also my understanding - final and what the original owner does has no effect on the points. I had done a direct add on and before the contract closed inquired about transferring the current points coming with it to my other UY to use in a reservation. They would not do it because of the complications if the contract ended up not closing and that was just transferring from me to me!

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

This is why I'd only rent via a reputable agent such as Dave's as I believe they'd make it good as they couldn't do with bad publicity.

Really? Don't you remember a big stink a couple of years ago when they just cancelled reservations at the last minute when an owner apparently lost his points (bankruptcy maybe)

What David does is give you a refund and say "good luck". So you aren't out any money, but you won't have a place to sleep

 

[CarolMN]

I think it would be a difficult loophole to close. Once you transfer your points they no longer belong to you, though they are still subject to the use year/home resort that they are attached to.

If it becomes enough of a problem (my guess it's relatively rare), there's nothing to stop Disney from just stopping all point transfers. I can't find anything in the MS-POS documents or Home Resort Rules and Regulations that says members are guaranteed the ability to transfer.

 

[rlduvall]

Really? Don't you remember a big stink a couple of years ago when they just cancelled reservations at the last minute when an owner apparently lost his points (bankruptcy maybe)

What David does is give you a refund and say "good luck". So you aren't out any money, but you won't have a place to sleep

I remember it vividly, because it made me realize that even renting through him didn't mean you definitely had accommodations. And while I am sure he is a wonderful person, he made no effort to accommodate the renters who lost their reservations - at least that was the impression I got. If he did and that just wasn't translated on the Boards, I apologize.

 

[Chuck S]

I remember it vividly, because it made me realize that even renting through him didn't mean you definitely had accommodations. And while I am sure he is a wonderful person, he made no effort to accommodate the renters who lost their reservations - at least that was the impression I got. If he did and that just wasn't translated on the Boards, I apologize.

Yes, but really, what would you expect him to do if DVC cancels the reservation because the owner is in arrears? David is a rental broker, not a travel agent or booking agent...only the middle man between you and an owner. A refund could certainly help you book another room for cash through Disney.

 

[rlduvall]

Yes, but really, what would you expect him to do if DVC cancels the reservation because the owner is in arrears? David is a rental broker, not a travel agent or booking agent...only the middle man between you and an owner. A refund could certainly help you book another room for cash through Disney.

No - you're right; I agree. It just was a real eye opener that even going with a reputable company doesn't guarantee accommodations - but does guarantee no financial loss. I assume David had to pay those refunds out of his own pocket and then make a creditor's claim on the Bankruptcy.