Mass shooting in Toronto?

[RC Fan]

This was from today. Posting since it was brought up here.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/guns-domestic-danforth-shooting-toronto-1.4759159

"Illegal guns sourced in Canada surge compared to those smuggled from U.S

Police say legal Canadian gun owners are selling their weapons illegally

The Canadian Press · Posted: Jul 24, 2018 8:09 AM ET | Last Updated: July 24

The number of guns obtained legally in Canada but are then sold to people who use them for criminal purposes has surged dramatically in recent years compared to firearms smuggled from the United States, Toronto police say.

In recent years, they say, investigators have noticed a stark shift in where guns used to commit crimes are coming from.

Before 2012, about 75 per cent of the firearms were trafficked from the United States. By 2017, however, about half originated from domestic sources, putting an end to the idea that most of Canada's illegal guns come from across the border, Det. Rob Di Danieli of the guns and gangs unit said.

Legal Canadian gun owners are selling their weapons illegally, Di Danieli said, noting that police have seen more than 40 such cases in recent years.

The allure of a quick sell at a high profit margin is one reason legal owners might sell their guns. One man sold 47 guns and made over $100,000 in a five month period, the detective said.

"They go get their licence for the purpose of becoming a firearms trafficker," Di Danieli said. "A lot of people are so ready to blame the big bad Americans, but we had our own little problem here."

Is there any truth in journalism today? The authors seem more interested in hot topics.

From the perspective of the legal Canadian firearms owner, you would be incredibly stupid to sell your guns to an unlicensed individual.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Is there any truth in journalism today? The authors seem more interested in hot topics.

From the perspective of the legal Canadian firearms owner, you would be incredibly stupid to sell your guns to an unlicensed individual.

I agree on both points.

Skywalker

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Is there any truth in journalism today? The authors seem more interested in hot topics.

From the perspective of the legal Canadian firearms owner, you would be incredibly stupid to sell your guns to an unlicensed individual.

I’ve never fully bought into the straw man notion. Sure, it exists on some level. But, the amount of profit required to make such a risky venture worthwhile would price most criminals out of the market. The reason most criminals are criminals is because they’re poor. It’s hard to imagine someone who “earns” $7-8,000 per year hustling on the street being able to pay 4-5 times the retail price of a gun.

 

[CdnCarrie]

So sorry Skywalker.

 

[bcla]

I’ve never fully bought into the straw man notion. Sure, it exists on some level. But, the amount of profit required to make such a risky venture worthwhile would price most criminals out of the market. The reason most criminals are criminals is because they’re poor. It’s hard to imagine someone who “earns” $7-8,000 per year hustling on the street being able to pay 4-5 times the retail price of a gun.

You mean straw purchases? It's more complex than just people who simply do it to try and make a good deal of money. Often it's done by a friend or a relative who should know better than to buy a firearm for someone who is ineligible to own one. The first time I'd ever heard of the term was reading an article about a kid whose uncle bought him a MAC-10 clone, where he ended up killing his teacher. Some of the people who do it are drug users who don't care if it's not that much money. It's a side hustle and not specifically a way to make a living.

Dealers are actually a pretty big source. I remember one place (they always had ads in the local paper when print was the most common way to read news) and they eventually got closed down because they couldn't account for where thousands of firearms went.

Not sure about Canada though. I would think that the lower numbers of dealers would make it far easier to keep tabs on them this sort of thing.

 

[RC Fan]

Dealers are actually a pretty big source. I remember one place (they always had ads in the local paper when print was the most common way to read news) and they eventually got closed down because they couldn't account for where thousands of firearms went.

Not sure about Canada though. I would think that the lower numbers of dealers would make it far easier to keep tabs on them this sort of thing.

It would be very risky/incredibly stupid for a Canadian dealer to sell to unlicensed individuals. The serial numbers could be very easily traced.

I would think most of the illegal guns are stolen/smuggled.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

It would be very risky/incredibly stupid for a Canadian dealer to sell to unlicensed individuals. The serial numbers could be very easily traced.

I would think most of the illegal guns are stolen/smuggled.

Very risky in the US as well.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

You mean straw purchases? It's more complex than just people who simply do it to try and make a good deal of money. Often it's done by a friend or a relative who should know better than to buy a firearm for someone who is ineligible to own one. The first time I'd ever heard of the term was reading an article about a kid whose uncle bought him a MAC-10 clone, where he ended up killing his teacher. Some of the people who do it are drug users who don't care if it's not that much money. It's a side hustle and not specifically a way to make a living.

Dealers are actually a pretty big source. I remember one place (they always had ads in the local paper when print was the most common way to read news) and they eventually got closed down because they couldn't account for where thousands of firearms went.

Not sure about Canada though. I would think that the lower numbers of dealers would make it far easier to keep tabs on them this sort of thing.

Buying for a family member who is illegal is definitely a thing.

It’s difficult for me to believe a dealer would be non-compliant with the feds on thousands of firearms. That’s one thing the BATF watches pretty close & its a “lock them up and throw away the key kind of offense”. Non-complaint with CA law may be another thing altogether.

 

[bcla]

Buying for a family member who is illegal is definitely a thing.

It’s difficult for me to believe a dealer would be non-compliant with the feds on thousands of firearms. That’s one thing the BATF watches pretty close & its a “lock them up and throw away the key kind of offense”. Non-complaint with CA law may be another thing altogether.

Of course I'm talking about the US. Canada is probably tougher. It might be gang members with clean records buying them for other members.

This was the store:

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2006/06/04/san-leandros-trader-sports-no-longer-selling-guns-for-now/

 

[minnie56]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-shooter-s-gun-was-illegal-originally-from-u-s-source-1.4027129

This world gets scarier all the time...

 

[ronandannette]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-shooter-s-gun-was-illegal-originally-from-u-s-source-1.4027129

This world gets scarier all the time...

Sure, and let's blame our own boarder security for letting them get across somehow. A DIS poster on another thread has mentioned they cannot bring their legal handguns into Canada. The issue isn't really that guns exist in the world; it's that criminal low-lifes do.

The perp's brother has been identified as a known gang-banger with a history of drug and weapons offences and it's assumed that's where he obtained the gun. Bad guys like the brother are going to access guns - if not from across the boarder then from some other source. (There have been a number of home-invasions locally where reports are that stealing guns was the objective.) Odds are good this mentally-deranged murderer would not have had a gun if it wasn't for his brother.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Sure, and let's blame our own boarder security for letting them get across somehow. A DIS poster on another thread has mentioned they cannot bring their legal handguns into Canada. The issue isn't really that guns exist in the world; it's that criminal low-lifes do.

The perp's brother has been identified as a known gang-banger with a history of drug and weapons offences and it's assumed that's where he obtained the gun. Bad guys like the brother are going to access guns - if not from across the boarder then from some other source. (There have been a number of home-invasions locally where reports are that stealing guns was the objective.) Odds are good this mentally-deranged murderer would not have had a gun if it wasn't for his brother.

It's much easier for criminals to get their hands on guns originating in the US than originating in Canada. Why do you think this guy wouldn't have been able to get a gun if it wasn't for his brother? He lived in community housing in a high crime area. He had a long history with the police yet unfortunately no criminal record.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The perp's brother has been identified as a known gang-banger with a history of drug and weapons offences and it's assumed that's where he obtained the gun. Bad guys like the brother are going to access guns - if not from across the boarder then from some other source. (There have been a number of home-invasions locally where reports are that stealing guns was the objective.) Odds are good this mentally-deranged murderer would not have had a gun if it wasn't for his brother.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/gun-used...in-saskatoon-a-few-years-ago-source-1.4027018

From this, it seems likely he had the gun illegally, but what about the person whose house it was stolen from? If they knew the serial number, would that mean it was registered? How is it tracked?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

And seems there were signs similar to those we've seen discussed before - posting pictures of guns, saying he wanted to kill, threatening toward parents, dark drawings, etc. He was previously investigated by police under the Mental Health Act.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/teacher-says-faisal-hussain-told-him-i-want-to-kill-someone-1.4028214

 

[ronandannette]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/gun-used...in-saskatoon-a-few-years-ago-source-1.4027018

From this, it seems likely he had the gun illegally, but what about the person whose house it was stolen from? If they knew the serial number, would that mean it was registered? How is it tracked?

I'd have to do a lot of research before I could answer any questions about our gun registry. I don't have a gun nor does anyone I know of have a hand gun. Long guns do not require registration (except in Quebec) but you need a permit to acquire one.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The thing I've seen once and haven't seen again - has anyone else seen it and can you post the link, if so?

There was a witness interviewed that ran, almost literally, into Hussein as he was running away from the area of the shootings, apparently right before he died. The witness was startled, I think seeing the gun in his hands, and Hussein looked at him and said, "Don't worry, I'm not going to kill you". Why?? Why the others and not him?

ETA Found it: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...t-you-new-details-emerge-about-final-moments/

 

[ronandannette]

It's much easier for criminals to get their hands on guns originating in the US than originating in Canada. Why do you think this guy wouldn't have been able to get a gun if it wasn't for his brother? He lived in community housing in a high crime area. He had a long history with the police yet unfortunately no criminal record.

I guess I just wouldn't immediately connect those dots. Does poverty automatically equal crime? We don't really have public housing projects like that here. Our low-income housing model is subsidized units in existing buildings integrated into diverse neighbourhoods. Gangs and organized crime activities are well-known to be localized in certain parts of town but they're not particularly poor neighbourhoods. Some are just the opposite actually. You'd be surprised how many grow-ops are located in big, newly constructed houses in the suburbs. Easier to fly them under the radar when there's a lot of activity and strange people coming and going all the time.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I guess I just wouldn't immediately connect those dots. Does poverty automatically equal crime? We don't really have public housing projects like that here. Our low-income housing model is subsidized units in existing buildings integrated into diverse neighbourhoods. Gangs and organized crime activities are localized in certain areas but they're not particularly poor neighbourhoods. Some are just the opposite actually. You'd be surprised how many grow-ops are located in big, newly constructed houses in the suburbs. Easier to fly them under the radar when there's a lot of activity and strange people coming and going all the time.

In Toronto there is very high crime connected to community housing, unfortunately. Does it mean every person who lives in community housing is a criminal? Of course not. Why would you think poverty automatically equals crime? I'm not at all surprised that grow ops are in suburban areas. They have flourished there for over 30 years. Fun Fact: My husband lived in poverty in community housing when he was young. He now works to put gang members in jail and get illegal guns off the street.

Toronto is working on community integration as well. It has a very long journey ahead.

 

[ronandannette]

In Toronto there is very high crime connected to community housing, unfortunately. Does it mean every person who lives in community housing is a criminal? Of course not. Why would you think poverty automatically equals crime? I'm not at all surprised that grow ops are in suburban areas. They have flourished there for over 30 years. Fun Fact: My husband lived in poverty in community housing when he was young. He now works to put gang members in jail and get illegal guns off the street.

Toronto is working on community integration as well. It has a very long journey ahead.

Only because you used the phrase "community housing in a high-crime area" and seemed to connect the two. Just misunderstanding you I guess. I don't and wouldn't think that. Quite the contrary really; organized crime generates massive money - very little of it is perpetrated by poverty-level people scraping for food and shelter. Or at least that's perception prominent in Calgary.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Only because you used the phrase "community housing in a high-crime area" and seemed to connect the two. Just misunderstanding you I guess. I don't and wouldn't think that. Quite the contrary really; organized crime generates massive money - very little of it is perpetrated by poverty-level people scraping for food and shelter. Or at least the perception that's prominent in Calgary.

Gangs and organized crime are two different beasts. Toronto Police has an Organized Crime Unit and a Guns and Gang task force.

ETA There is a lot of crime in community housing here. No doubt about it. Gangs flourish there.