Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

[Skywise]

This is good. I really prefer the Marvel method of creating a story through different characters and then have a central "Avengers" brand carrying the big plot points of the story.

That's what they want, and that's exactly what they had but they screwed the whole thing up.
I'm still flummoxed that they don't understand that Star Wars was, at its base, a SERIAL - you don't need a trilogy, you just need a MAIN storyline series that the other movies can branch off of (and Solo and Rogue One weren't those as they didn't tie together with the main movieline). Resistance is closer but doesn't really tie into the movies very well either (but then neither did Rebels or Clone Wars - though Clone Wars did alot to flesh out the various characters)
They're just trying to distance themselves from their disastrous missteps, which is fine, but I think this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. More importantly I think this demonstrates that Disney doesn't really understand storycraft. (Marvel isn't really an exception here - Most of their movies tend to just work and ignore the overarching storylines which become mere macguffins to propel the characters. Back when the series started I thought we'd get some real details into the infinity stones - but that story mostly got told in end credits scenes and didn't really even factor into anything until the last movie when they rushed to get the last 3...) But then Lucas himself didn't even follow this as he destroyed the big reveal in Episode 5 (Darth Vader being Luke's father - hope that's not a spoiler!) in Episode 3 via retcon.

 

[Skywise]

Yes, apparently the new movie is a mess, plot wise...and does very little character work for any character.

That said, apparently, it does provide an ending and does have tons and tons and tons of action sequences, prettily shot. So, it could be better...and it could be worse...

Sounds like they went the Rogue One route... Which, while I liked the ending fight sequence and Vader playing Hulk Smash!(tm), was particularly emotionally vapid and doesn't hold up much over successive viewings (and also doesn't fit story continuity either)

 

[Mikey15]

I do think they should have called an audible on Luke once Carrie Fisher died ... could have done the exact same thing but not have him fade into the Force at the end

(I have not read any RoS reviews or spoilers)

Respectfully, I still don't get this argument. It's well-established canon that Luke can be back as a Force ghost, so why does it make a difference whether or not he dies at the end?

Arguably, I think the baton pass needs to happen to move the new characters forward. It also completes Luke's TLJ arc. We had to find out why he shut himself out from the galaxy (TFA problem that needed an answer), but then allow him to come back into the fold in a way that's meaningful.

 

[mrsap]

Fortnite has been releasing in-game Star Wars merchandise this week, and will show some exclusive footage in-game tomorrow at 2 PM Eastern

https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/the-force-is-strong-with-fortniteYou know, for kids!

Season 1 OG here , although I stopped during season 2. DS still occasionally plays and the SW stuff did make him log back in this weekend.

New glider!!

 

[Dis_Fan]

It doesn't matter if you like TLJ or not and it doesn't matter if TLJ was a great or bad movie. What Rian Johnson did was screw whoever was going to make the next movie. He kept Luke dead even after Carrie Fisher died. That denied the next filmmaker any of the three characters from the OT to play a major role as a living character in the next movie. He killed off Snoke while leaving Kylo Ren as a conflicted character denying the next film a cinematic true bad guy. He never attempted to explain who the Knights of Ren were or add more background to the First Order. He did nothing to make the audience care about characters like Poe and Finn. Johnson forced whoever took over after him to retcon the story and try to cram too many plot points into a final installment.

TLJ was not the best movie. It had its faults and strange storyline decisions. I liked it though but acknowledge the flaws.

To put everything on Rian Johnson for screwing things up seems a bit harsh though. If anything J.J. Abrahms deserves the same amount of blame if not more.

He decided to eat the member berries and remake A New Hope only add in a bunch of mysteries and loose ends that Rian Johnson (or whoever would have directed VIII) needed to deal with.

Things like, where did Maz get Lukes lightsaber, the status of the New Republic, who are Reys parents, who is Snoke, who are the Knights of Ren, among others.

Episode 4 did not leave a dozen plot threads open. Sure it made you want to learn more about the universe and characters but it was still self contained and a complete story in itself.

J.J. ended VII on a CLIFFHANGER, something that no other Star Wars has done. Other movies ended with plots still to be resolved but nothing as concrete as Rey meeting Luke and doing a Sopranos ending with it. How does that not influence the next director and back him in a corner from day 1.

Force Awakens was a very good, although unoriginal, reintroduction to the Star Wars universe. J.J. decided to add a bunch of questions he did not feel like answering to leave for the next movie though. He set up the game board more then he should have. Rian Johnson might not have dealt with some of the questions the best but he did what he wanted to do with the story as he should have. If J.J. is mad enough about the decisions Rian made to ignore and retcon most of TLJ then he should have made it then,and made his complete vision, good or bad, himself.

 

[jade1]

Respectfully, I still don't get this argument. It's well-established canon that Luke can be back as a Force ghost, so why does it make a difference whether or not he dies at the end?

That's all Luke actually did over the entire trilogy. 5 total minutes as a Force Ghost.

One entire movie looking for him to help.

One where you did nothing until the end-were he projected as a force ghost buying the resistance 5 minutes of time.

And one where he might (at best) be a force ghost for a scene or 2.

After 40 years-some of us just wanted to see Mark at work, since he was/is still in pretty good shape.

It's just an opinion, is what it is. Still going tomorrow night.

 

[OSUZorba]

It doesn't matter if you like TLJ or not and it doesn't matter if TLJ was a great or bad movie. What Rian Johnson did was screw whoever was going to make the next movie. He kept Luke dead even after Carrie Fisher died. That denied the next filmmaker any of the three characters from the OT to play a major role as a living character in the next movie. He killed off Snoke while leaving Kylo Ren as a conflicted character denying the next film a cinematic true bad guy. He never attempted to explain who the Knights of Ren were or add more background to the First Order. He did nothing to make the audience care about characters like Poe and Finn. Johnson forced whoever took over after him to retcon the story and try to cram too many plot points into a final installment.

I liked TLJ and really didn't like TFA, but I completely agree with this. TLJ was a good movie, but it really didn't make sense as a middle movie.

 

[Brianstl]

TLJ was not the best movie. It had its faults and strange storyline decisions. I liked it though but acknowledge the flaws.

To put everything on Rian Johnson for screwing things up seems a bit harsh though. If anything J.J. Abrahms deserves the same amount of blame if not more.

He decided to eat the member berries and remake A New Hope only add in a bunch of mysteries and loose ends that Rian Johnson (or whoever would have directed VIII) needed to deal with.

Things like, where did Maz get Lukes lightsaber, the status of the New Republic, who are Reys parents, who is Snoke, who are the Knights of Ren, among others.

Episode 4 did not leave a dozen plot threads open. Sure it made you want to learn more about the universe and characters but it was still self contained and a complete story in itself.

J.J. ended VII on a CLIFFHANGER, something that no other Star Wars has done. Other movies ended with plots still to be resolved but nothing as concrete as Rey meeting Luke and doing a Sopranos ending with it. How does that not influence the next director and back him in a corner from day 1.

Force Awakens was a very good, although unoriginal, reintroduction to the Star Wars universe. J.J. decided to add a bunch of questions he did not feel like answering to leave for the next movie though. He set up the game board more then he should have. Rian Johnson might not have dealt with some of the questions the best but he did what he wanted to do with the story as he should have. If J.J. is mad enough about the decisions Rian made to ignore and retcon most of TLJ then he should have made it then,and made his complete vision, good or bad, himself.

JJ’s number one trait Seems to be the inability to outline his story. It is why he can never stick the landing. He can come up with some good ideas and repurpose other ideas but he lacks the vision needed to consistently properly develop those ideas into a story from beginning to end. Then he expects the spectacle to divert the audience from that fact.

 

[mcjaco]

I liked TFA, but IMO the only really great film of the Disney Star Wars era is Rogue One.

Not going to argue this. I love Rogue One.

JJ’s number one trait Seems to be the inability to outline his story. It is why he can never stick the landing. He can come up with some good ideas and repurpose other ideas but he lacks the vision needed to consistently properly develop those ideas into a story from beginning to end. Then he expects the spectacle to divert the audience from that fact.

Insert lens flare.

 

[MikeNamez]

When can we start talking spoilers here or will there be a separate thread?

 

[Brianstl]

The main thing I am hoping from the movie is that it has enough to entertain my son. This will be the first Star Wars he sees in a theater and it would just be a big let down if he doesn't enjoy it. If I like the movie that would just be gravy at this point.

 

[jade1]

When can we start talking spoilers here or will there be a separate thread?

10:30 tonight is good with me.

 

[BrianL]

When can we start talking spoilers here or will there be a separate thread?

I'd say as soon as you've seen it, but I think we should use spoiler tags for a while.

Spoiler: Example

like this

 

[TheMaxRebo]

When can we start talking spoilers here or will there be a separate thread?

I'd say as soon as you've seen it, but I think we should use spoiler tags for a while.

Spoiler: Example

like this

yeah, there was a request to not start a separate thread just so don't have to visit multiple threads

I think if we can try to use Spoiler Tags at least until Saturday that would be great and then I will update the thread title to indicate it contains spoilers

If anyone disagrees, let me know

 

[Skywise]

I can't believe Jar Jar Binks was a Sith Lord!

 

[MrJT]

yeah, there was a request to not start a separate thread just so don't have to visit multiple threads

Too bad there are at least 4 threads already.

 

[TwoMisfits]

yeah, there was a request to not start a separate thread just so don't have to visit multiple threads

I think if we can try to use Spoiler Tags at least until Saturday that would be great and then I will update the thread title to indicate it contains spoilers

If anyone disagrees, let me know

How about use spoiler tags the 1st week (so take them off next Friday)...that gives folks holding off til Xmas a chance to still visit the thread...

 

[TheMaxRebo]

How about use spoiler tags the 1st week (so take them off next Friday)...that gives folks holding off til Xmas a chance to still visit the thread...

sounds good - I updated the thread title and first post to indicate this

 

[TomServo27]

Waiting in the theater for ROS now. They just played a galaxys Edge commercial that had a lot ride footage for ROTR. I couldn’t look away but just be aware if you don’t want to be spoiled.

 

[tinkerhon]

The main thing I am hoping from the movie is that it has enough to entertain my son. This will be the first Star Wars he sees in a theater and it would just be a big let down if he doesn't enjoy it. If I like the movie that would just be gravy at this point.

Just.got back from a fan event with my ds8 ( gave.out really nice opening night lanyard and pins) - we absolutely loved every.minute of it ! My son was glued to the screen !!