If the flattening isn't working is it time to face reality?

No, everybody won't recover. Lots of small businesses will never reopen. Lots of people nearing retirement age won't be rehired. Some companies will cut back and not rehire everyone because demand for their products will be down.

I'm glad you apparently will be fine. But to keep saying everyone else will be is short sighted.
Sigh - This is a pandemic. There is no scenario in which everyone was going to be fine. People are dying. But we are in a much better place today than we were yesterday.

And you have no idea how I will be - I could be dead when this is done. So please don't make this personal.
 
Sigh - This is a pandemic. There is no scenario in which everyone was going to be fine. People are dying. But we are in a much better place today than we were yesterday.

And you have no idea how I will be - I could be dead when this is done. So please don't make this personal.
You were the one saying everyone would be fine. I'm glad you see that is not necessarily the case.
 
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My daughter had a doctor come through her drive thru on Saturday with 6 scripts one for each member of his family...she asked him if anyone had any symptoms and he said no that he was just getting prepared in case they needed it. She refused him and he told her that he could call the VA Pharmacy board and have her license....her response to him was to just "try to do that" as she had the authority as the PIC to refuse these scripts because she has patients who have lupus and RA whose immune systems are compromised and need that drug much more that this doctor. He drove off in a huff!
 


No, everybody won't recover. Lots of small businesses will never reopen. Lots of people nearing retirement age won't be rehired. Some companies will cut back and not rehire everyone because demand for their products will be down.

I'm glad you apparently will be fine. But to keep saying everyone else will be is short sighted.
Natural purge of a business cycle. Opportunities open up on the other side for new businesses to fill the void.

It sucks but it's part of life.
 
My daughter had a doctor come through her drive thru on Saturday with 6 scripts one for each member of his family...she asked him if anyone had any symptoms and he said no that he was just getting prepared in case they needed it. She refused him and he told her that he could call the VA Pharmacy board and have her license....her response to him was to just "try to do that" as she had the authority as the PIC to refuse these scripts because she has patients who have lupus and RA whose immune systems are compromised and need that drug much more that this doctor. He drove off in a huff!
Ah this doctor(and ones like hime) is the reason there are shortages! Ridiculous
 
Sigh - This is a pandemic. There is no scenario in which everyone was going to be fine. People are dying. But we are in a much better place today than we were yesterday.

And you have no idea how I will be - I could be dead when this is done. So please don't make this personal.
Seems you were quite sure everyone would be peachy keen just a few moments earlier

Nor has our country been is such sound economic health going into a disaster.

We will be fine. The relief bill was passed. No one is going to lose their home or get evicted. People are still going to have enough money to eat. Companies are getting money to stay alive - even if on life support - through this crisis so we can start back up once the danger has passed.

Time for the economy alarmists to calm down. Read the bill that was just passed. It will look dark for a while, but we will be fine.
Sorry, I don't believe you. America will emerge from this just fine.
What would unemployment plus $600 extra per week do?

America will be just fine.
And plenty of individuals have already died with many more to come from the virus. They and their families will never be fine again.

ETA - Yesterday we had folks talking about the end of America - civil uprisings because so many would be destroyed economically. Well, that isn't going to happen now. America will be fine. As long as America is fine, anyone can rebuild. The risk is if the country crumbles, right?

Doesn't America include everyone? Or were you selectively choosing who was included in your "no one", "anyone" and "America"?
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Nor has our country been is such sound economic health going into a disaster.

We will be fine. The relief bill was passed. No one is going to lose their home or get evicted. People are still going to have enough money to eat. Companies are getting money to stay alive - even if on life support - through this crisis so we can start back up once the danger has passed.

Time for the economy alarmists to calm down. Read the bill that was just passed. It will look dark for a while, but we will be fine.
If you can't see that there will be long term irreversible effects then I don't know what to tell you. Same happened from 9/11, same happened from the Recession, same with other events of our lives.

Americans as a whole will be forever changed by this. How easily we forget all that has changed by world and national events of our past. We are a nation as a whole that chugs along but that does not mean we come out "just fine" Two different thought processes.
 


The damage to the economy is Irreversible, sadly. If we cannot make it through two plus weeks of nonpayments without a two plus trillion stimulus package, the damage is already done.

Not saying it’s Mad Max IV, but this damage is real.
 
Funny all these questions when I mentioned that child deaths were acceptable to people with H1N1. Where were you then? Why do you hold deaths of the elderly more worthy than deaths of the young?

Thanks for dodging the question. And, I'm pretty sure I never posted a word about H1N1...my children were small during that one. I ABSOLUTELY cared. Show me otherwise.
 
To add, it is important to highlight that this situation has led virtually every company big and medium that has one to fully draw down on its lending facilities with financial institutions. Simultaneously. This is why the Fed had to inject liquidity As this is an extreme stress scenario on the banking system.

Until those are repaid, we are in a continuing stress scenario on he banking system.
 
The damage to the economy is Irreversible, sadly. If we cannot make it through two plus weeks of nonpayments without a two plus trillion stimulus package, the damage is already done.

Not saying it’s Mad Max IV, but this damage is real.
The key is the "plus". I fully believe everyone would have been ok with just two weeks (some exceptions). But I think this is going to end up closer to 8 weeks (at minimum), so yes, the stimulus package is needed.
 
Seems you were quite sure everyone would be peachy keen just a few moments earlier
Let me make this crystal clear for those out there who cannot see past the words - for those who literally take every word in a post and parse it out rather than looking for the message.

I know that everyone is not going to be fine. Anyone with a brain knows that everyone is not going to be fine. How do we know? Because people have already died. Because people have already suffered irreversible lung damage. Those people will not be fine. EVER.

My post was meant to be positive. We got a bill passed that will help our country. We got a bill passed that will ensure that we survive as a nation, and as a society. Because we got that bill passed, even those most negatively impacted by this financially will have a chance to rebuild. Had we not had a bill like this passed and America as a nation devolved into the nightmare than many here were predicting, that would not have been possible. No one would have had the opportunity to rebuild. The nation would be destroyed.

So, I hope that you take this message for what it meant to be - a positive message about the future of our nation. Together we can get through this. We can rebuild that which is lost.

We will be fine.
 
What a ridiculously myopic statement. People have lost jobs already. No relief bill can or will bring back all those jobs. People will lose homes. People will lose insurance. People with ongoing chronic medical conditions.

Exactly. We'll see what's in the full bill if/when it passes, but I'm already hearing from small business owners in my community that they're looking at closing for good or giving up the brick-and-mortar side of their businesses as soon as next month, because they don't have the reserves to get by. The stimulus might help but since that help is structured in the form of loans, it might not. And a lot of people are reserving their celebrations for when the details become available.

Assuming a family of four, that would be a one time payment of $3400. How long do you think that will last? A month? MAYBE two? Don't get me wrong, it will help. But saying "ok, everyone is getting this one check, the economy is fine!" is very naive. And how long will it take to see these checks?

The bill also expands unemployment to cover more people (haven't seen details on that yet; we're hoping for something for displaced workers, because taking on DD's payment plan for her extra credit hours is not an expense we need right now) and to pay a higher maximum benefit for up to four months. So it really could go a long way for a lot of people.

Yeah, the Atlanta and Birmingham metro areas are both running out of ventilators already, but if you live out in rural Alabama or Georgia then you have a much greater chance of isolating yourself. But remember that it takes far fewer cases in rural areas to overwhelm the hospitals because they have far fewer lifesaving resources like ICU units and ventilators per capita.

Yep. Spread does appear slower and anecdotally cases seem less serious in rural areas around me (which is interesting from a science perspective, given the Chinese theory about degree of exposure/the amount of virus you take in impacting the severity of the illness), but it takes next to nothing to overwhelm a rural hospital. Ours has something like 3 ventilators, and I've read about quite a few up north that only have one. These are hospitals that usually transfer serious cases to the nearest urban/full service facility. They're not staffed or equipped to deal with ongoing ICU-level care.
 
The damage to the economy is Irreversible, sadly. If we cannot make it through two plus weeks of nonpayments without a two plus trillion stimulus package, the damage is already done.

Not saying it’s Mad Max IV, but this damage is real.
You have some evidence of this? Or is this, like, just your opinion?
 
Let me make this crystal clear for those out there who cannot see past the words - for those who literally take every word in a post and parse it out rather than looking for the message.

I know that everyone is not going to be fine. Anyone with a brain knows that everyone is not going to be fine. How do we know? Because people have already died. Because people have already suffered irreversible lung damage. Those people will not be fine. EVER.

My post was meant to be positive. We got a bill passed that will help our country. We got a bill passed that will ensure that we survive as a nation, and as a society. Because we got that bill passed, even those most negatively impacted by this financially will have a chance to rebuild. Had we not had a bill like this passed and America as a nation devolved into the nightmare than many here were predicting, that would not have been possible. No one would have had the opportunity to rebuild. The nation would be destroyed.

So, I hope that you take this message for what it meant to be - a positive message about the future of our nation. Together we can get through this. We can rebuild that which is lost.

We will be fine.
Call me crazy but name calling, being insulting (in your above comment), dismissive tone, responding to posters with "I don't believe you America will be just fine" doesn't make for positive message :confused3

Thanks for claifying your original intent though.
 
I'm also grateful my daughter's college sent kids home. Dorms are no place to weather something like this.

I never said we should do nothing. Just that we're not going to be able to keep this shut down as long as some think.

You can't open it all up and do nothing. You can't keep it closed up until the very last case is over. The answer is somewhere in the middle. The hard part is figuring out where.

You are underestimating the grief, worry and anxiety keeping everything closed down is causing as well. There is a cost. People are losing jobs and will lose homes. People are losing health insurance. I get that this is needed for now. But It can't go on for months like some suggest. There is a cost to doing nothing. There is a cost to doing everything. There is a cost to doing something. People at a higher pay grade than myself will have to figure out the optimal approach.

Some people's lives will be consumed just by the shut down. They will be affected as if a forest fire went through their homes.

I don't think this is forever, I think we just need to give the world leaders, Dr's and scientists the time and space and stillness to formulate a strategy and if preventing a surge does that then that's what has to happen. This is awful and I don''t think anyone is underestimating issues but an out of work parent is better than orphaned kids because then what happens. My husbands grandmother and 2 sisters were orphaned during the 1918 Flu pandemic - it was catastrophic, let's not repeat it. I think everyone should go back to older generations and let them share the reality of how much humans can endure. 'm calling my 90+ aunt today because she is a spitfire ;) As for me, I survived unemployment, homelessness, gas lines, foodstamps and the like that came from the recession & stagflation late 70's-80's. I was 14 when AIDS hit and that was terrifying but we survived that too, we lost many and people were angry at, it seemed, everything and everyone but we all learned and eventually there were treatments and medicines but at the beginning being saved was unimaginable. We also made it through 911 with a new set of normals, the shock was horrible but once it wore off we adapted. We all recovered after the recent housing mess, it was terrible but American's made it. I'm glad I'm old enough to settle my kids and share with them the truth that sometimes life just demands a reboot and the faster they learn that being adaptive is the key to survival the better for them. No sense in raging against it - just think for yourself and regroup. They are learning the skill of working from home and that's not necessarily a bad thing, their future employers will know that the kids who get though this without imploding are made of real grit they can be a telecommuting workforce. Thats good for businesses because there is bench depth being cultivated.

I have great faith that we will all figure our way out of this too. I believe they do have cures in our midst but that there isn't enough right now because who can prepare for something like this - so we need to just buy time for the experts and sit still so that the very sickest can be treated. We need to sit still and wait for financial crisis intervention because it will come. We need to sit still and prevent a surge in sick where they can't be helped because then healthy family members will care for loved ones and get sick too and then things explode again - no thanks.

My own mind tells me that this illness is a slow burn so once there is enough approved medicine in supply and tests to get to people early it will become a manageable situation, but we just aren't there yet so we all just need to sit still and be patient. The 1918 Flu came back in 2009, my kid got it and nearly died but they gave her Tamiflu and antibiotics, she was in quarantine and she survived. My son just got it too but Tamiflu saved the day again, fever gone in a few days, I am grateful. The 1918 Flu is now seasonal Flu and we have adapted because humans are smart and incredibly creative. We just need to sit still while things take shape. Now this is not really what American's like to do, we are built to press on and such but sometimes it is necessary.

Our leaders are trying to walk the line between saying we'll get through this without encouraging recklessness - that's not an easy line and leads to conflicting messages. Maybe we should all just call our older family members and ask them what else they lived through and how. I'm sure they'd enjoy the chat
 
The key is the "plus". I fully believe everyone would have been ok with just two weeks (some exceptions). But I think this is going to end up closer to 8 weeks (at minimum), so yes, the stimulus package is needed.

I thought he said that everything is going to be open by Easter.
 
Let me make this crystal clear for those out there who cannot see past the words - for those who literally take every word in a post and parse it out rather than looking for the message.

I know that everyone is not going to be fine. Anyone with a brain knows that everyone is not going to be fine. How do we know? Because people have already died. Because people have already suffered irreversible lung damage. Those people will not be fine. EVER.

My post was meant to be positive. We got a bill passed that will help our country. We got a bill passed that will ensure that we survive as a nation, and as a society. Because we got that bill passed, even those most negatively impacted by this financially will have a chance to rebuild. Had we not had a bill like this passed and America as a nation devolved into the nightmare than many here were predicting, that would not have been possible. No one would have had the opportunity to rebuild. The nation would be destroyed.

So, I hope that you take this message for what it meant to be - a positive message about the future of our nation. Together we can get through this. We can rebuild that which is lost.

We will be fine.
The bill has been agreed upon, it hasn’t been passed. I wouldn’t count any chickens before they hatch.
 

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