State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[Br'er Rabbit is the Best]

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All of that is short-term due to revenge travel. When the borders re-open, the traffic flows both ways. Domestic travel is at a high right now because there aren't too many places we can go. But if I have a choice between a week at Disney or a week in Italy (or Japan, Greece etc) for the same amount of scratch, I'm going to be looking hard at what I'm going to get in return for my dollars.

Customer retention is not something that should be easily dismissed. That's what gets you through the lean times. When you have a loyal customer base, you cater to them. That doesn't mean that you don't also seek out new customers as well. But you need to offer all of them a level of customer service that makes them feel like they are important to you. Because it's the unhappy customer that takes to the internet and blasts you for all to read while the happy customer tells all their friends and neighbors what a great experience your business provides.

You’re right that things right now are temporary, but unfortunately they are also reality right now. It’s the perfect time for them to try things like this. In the short term they can make m(b)illions and if needed they can reverse course years down the road if attendance drops too far. That’s how we got perks like extra magic hours and Disney’s Magic’s express to begin with. Look, I’m not saying I agree with their decisions. I’m just saying I understand them and I think Disney demand is much much more resilient than people on these boards give them credit for.

 

[onelove8187]

I have an irking suspicion that much of WDW's success and growth in the past 5-10 years has social media and loyalists (like us) to thank. If we stop trying to convince friends and family that WDW is actually worth it, I honestly wonder how much impact that could have on first timers. We have seen many , very long stretches, where WDW was not doing well, and these first 'guaranteed' big money first timers were few and far between.

I for one, have been a walking commercial for years and although I will still continue to go with my immediate family, I am far less likely to spread the good word now vs. 4 years ago. When the price tag for these first timers doubles in 5 years... and they approach WDW with hesitation to begin with? And then their cousin the annual passholder says that even they might not go anymore because prices have skyrocketed for a watered down product? Im just not sure about banking on these first timers as they are... I am no businessman, and I dont have the data, but it feels like if they kept dramatically increasing prices (as they have) but then leaned heavily into improving the guest experience... that that could yield better short-term and long-term profits.

Regardless, I definitely see a lot more angry dads yelling about the $10,000 they spend to wait in line all day only to get ushered off the third broken down omnimover of the day LOL

 

[ChipnDale79]

But staffing issues are just the other side of the same coin - it's Disney being unwilling to devote those resources to those hotels because they can get a much higher return on those resources if they invest them elsewhere.
I don't think they will let them sit empty forever, no. But they also have made the decision that the rate of return on values doesn't make it worth the resources it would take to get them open.

Of course disney is going to more than likely open those resorts last, because they are cheaper and they'll make more money off of the more expensive hotels. But they will be fully open before the year is out. They were never closed because they can get more bang out of the higher resorts and they decided they didnt want to operate them.

The comment was made that AK was the cheapest hotel option someone could get in October, under normal circumstances that would more than likely not be the case, but you have two variables that have made that resort the cheapest. The 50th anniversary, and multiple (not just the values) resorts that are in a cheaper category that are off line.

Open them up, and AK wont be the cheapest option.....

Honest question, does anyone know if the Resorts when fully opened, have been at 100% capacity for sustained time? I highly doubt it.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I have an irking suspicion that much of WDW's success and growth in the past 5-10 years has social media and loyalists (like us) to thank. If we stop trying to convince friends and family that WDW is actually worth it, I honestly wonder how much impact that could have on first timers. We have seen many , very long stretches, where WDW was not doing well, and these first 'guaranteed' big money first timers were few and far between.

I for one, have been a walking commercial for years and although I will still continue to go with my immediate family, I am far less likely to spread the good word now vs. 4 years ago. When the price tag for these first timers doubles in 5 years... and they approach WDW with hesitation to begin with? And then their cousin the annual passholder says that even they might not go anymore because prices have skyrocketed for a watered down product? Im just not sure about banking on these first timers as they are... I am no businessman, and I dont have the data, but it feels like if they kept dramatically increasing prices (as they have) but then leaned heavily into improving the guest experience... that that could yield better short-term and long-term profits.

Regardless, I definitely see a lot more angry dads yelling about the $10,000 they spend to wait in line all day only to get ushered off the third broken down omnimover of the day LOL

that's a conversation that my wife and i have had a few times. How many times does Tom and Suzy see a friend post pictures on Facebook and Instagram in their matching shirts and then say, "holy crap, we've gotta do that".

 

[Br'er Rabbit is the Best]

I mean i get what you're saying, but we still have resorts that are still closed, we've got 2 value resorts that are sitting empty. that's what, 3500-4000 hotel rooms itself? Let's see how things look when resorts are 100% open.

I bet if all those resorts were open, AK wouldnt be your cheapest option. Then again, October is different also, its the start of the 50 year celebration.

Fair point. Anecdotally which I know means very little, I am known as the Disney super fan in my family and friends. My sister hasn’t been since we were kids and stayed moderate. My brother in law has never been and has no interest in going. She’s been hammering away at my brother in law to go to Disney now that they have three kids. I’ve been trying to tell her that there will be no magical express next year, currently no fastpasses, no character meet and greets, no fantasmic, no parades, no park hopping before 2 pm and we don’t know when those things will return and what they will look like if they do. She doesn’t care. It’s Disney and she’s demands they go and stay at a monorail resort to make things simple. She’s going to make my BIL shell out close to $10 grand just because it’s Disney. And I’m sure I’m not the only one with a story like that. Disney knows it and counts on it.

 

[Wandering Oaken]

There are people bashing the idea and plenty of people bashing the IT for the constant glitching and errors. Different things going on.

Then those people are just wrong. It is implementing the idea passed down from the top. They'll make it work the best that they can but if it's a crud idea then they're not going to be able to do a whole lot.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Fair point. Anecdotally which I know means very little, I am known as the Disney super fan in my family and friends. My sister hasn’t been since we were kids and stayed moderate. My brother in law has never been and has no interest in going. She’s been hammering away at my brother in law to go to Disney now that they have three kids. I’ve been trying to tell her that there will be no magical express next year, currently no fastpasses, no character meet and greets, no fantasmic, no parades, no park hopping before 2 pm and we don’t know when those things will return and what they will look like if they do. She doesn’t care. It’s Disney and she’s demands they go and stay at a monorail resort to make things simple. She’s going to make my BIL shell out close to $10 grand just because it’s Disney. And I’m sure I’m not the only one with a story like that. Disney knows it and counts on it.

yeah, and i think you're always going to have people like that. Question is, is this a one and done trip for them, or will they be back at some point and do the same thing over and over again.

I mean, i dont know their internal numbers, but i'm shocked at all the people that I personally know that go to Disney time and time again, and how many of them have said they're growing tired of a lot of it. if there really are a ton of people that go often, and are changing their habits, that has to hit disney somewhere.

Your sister's situation isnt new, people have been doing that since WDW opened, they come back or they dont, and WDW will more than likely always be a rite of passage. Return visits have to put a dent in disney

 

[Moliphino]

And they’ll be the ones who don’t understand whatever replaces FP+. The idea that people are going to walk around dazed and confused because they don’t know how to obtain a FP and that Disney shouldn’t reintroduce it because of that is ridiculous.

Maybe they should do away with bus service. Some guests don’t understand it either and it’s been around longer than FP. I still remember the argument on a bus when one person announced to their group that it didn’t matter what bus you were on, they all went to the MK eventually. It was a bus to Disney Springs.

Or the ones at a WDW resort bus stop asking "Which bus goes to Disney World?". Congrats, you're here.

 

[onelove8187]

that's a conversation that my wife and i have had a few times. How many times does Tom and Suzy see a friend post pictures on Facebook and Instagram in their matching shirts and then say, "holy crap, we've gotta do that".

I have convinced several people to go would likely never have gone. My brother and his family were as anti WDW as they come, but they joined us for a trip which they never would have had I not helped. That was over two years ago. I would not be as compelling today.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I have convinced several people to go would likely never have gone. My brother and his family were as anti WDW as they come, but they joined us for a trip which they never would have had I not helped. That was over two years ago. I would not be as compelling today.

Same here. I've helped many people plan their disney vacation with tips and ideas.

We were at Disney last month, when i got back to work I've been asked a few times how it was, and gave my honest answer...i had one person tell me that they might reconsider going next year.

 

[tylerchange]

It’s becoming less and less worth going to WDW. At this point, you mind as well save that $5000+ for your vacation and save it towards maybe going to sports games, buying a new car, buying a new house, etc. Disney doesn’t care about the guests as much as they used to. They simply want your money, and that’s it. They don’t care if you wait in lines for hours and have to pay to get through them quicker. It’s the cold and hard truth that everyone needs to face.

 

[Bibbobboo2u]

deleted

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

When I left yesterday, I think this thread was on page 11, and it has made it to page 24 now! I checked for new info on another thread but didn't see any news. Did I miss something?

Here’s what you’ve missed:
- people losing their minds over the announcement of Disney Premier Access at Disneyland Paris (paid FastPass that had been in use at Shanghai Disney for 4 years). Many people are jumping to the conclusion that this system will also be implemented at WDW. But several reliable sources think otherwise. Will there be some form of paid FastPass at WDW at some point in the future? Very likely.
- Disney has been conducting live system tests of the “new program” (whatever FastPass will become) and it hasn’t been playing nicely with other systems. And it can’t successfully launch until it integrates with the other systems.
- Yesterday it failed yet another test. And it’s looking like it will take at least another 3 months of assessment to work out the issues. That will put them past the start of the 50th anniversary. It’s highly unlikely that Disney will allow the 50th anniversary celebrations to start without some FastPass system in place.
- Walt Disney World finds itself in a tough position. The key local competitor, Universal, has removed all capacity caps and Express Pass is functioning normally. This is pushing Disney to increase capacity faster than they like. And the failed tests of the “new program” are putting pressure on them to reactivate old FastPass+ for the short term while they work towards a successful implementation of the new program.

 

[Bibbobboo2u]

What attractions are still closed? Of the 90+ attractions at WDW:
- character greetings
- Festival of

Here’s what you’ve missed:
- people losing their minds over the announcement of Disney Premier Access at Disneyland Paris (paid FastPass that had been in use at Shanghai Disney for 4 years). Many people are jumping to the conclusion that this system will also be implemented at WDW. But several reliable sources think otherwise. Will there be some form of paid FastPass at WDW at some point in the future? Very likely.
- Disney has been conducting live system tests of the “new program” (whatever FastPass will become) and it hasn’t been playing nicely with other systems. And it can’t successfully launch until it integrates with the other systems.
- Yesterday it failed yet another test. And it’s looking like it will take at least another 3 months of assessment to work out the issues. That will put them past the start of the 50th anniversary. It’s highly unlikely that Disney will allow the 50th anniversary celebrations to start without some FastPass system in place.
- Walt Disney World finds itself in a tough position. The key local competitor, Universal, has removed all capacity caps and Express Pass is functioning normally. This is pushing Disney to increase capacity faster than they like. And the failed tests of the “new program” are putting pressure on them to reactivate old FastPass+ for the short term while they work towards a successful implementation of the new program.

Thanks for the update! I had just deleted my post, as I figured out that Disney had not made any announcement yet about WDW.

 

[Sophie's Mom]

I've been going to Disney at least 3 times a year since 1985 (prior to that yearly). We live in NJ so for us it's usually airfare, hotel, rental car, annual passes, TIW and then everything else that comes with a Disney vacation. I've never hesitated to spend the money because we love Disney and for us it's a very easy vacation. However, over the years our style of visiting has changed. We no longer spend all day every day in parks. We enjoy nice meals and maybe 3 or 4 rides each day, relaxing pool side, talking with people etc. When FP+ was introduced I wasn't sure I wanted to plan out my vacation's that much - but due to our style it has become a major perk. No running into the parks at rope drop - assuredness that we can get into the rides we like without having to wait more than 20 minutes in line. (With as many times as I've been to Disney I can honestly say I have no interest in waiting more than 20 minutes for any Disney ride...been there done that too many times to count!)

Now with the all the changes that are undoubtedly coming - I think our days of visiting parks will be very limited. Everyone has their pro/con buckets and for us the con bucket is getting bigger and bigger. Maybe it's because I'm old and have become a curmudgeon or maybe it's because lately I think Disney is more interested in a money grab and less interested in guest experience. JMO.

 

[Jonfw2]

So I did some math here:

If 10,000 WDW guests per day (less than 10% of daily average visitors for the 4 parks, non-Covid) buy 5 "Premier Passes" each at $10 a pop, that's $500,000 in found money...comes to nearly $200 million a year.

 

[ChipnDale79]

So I did some math here:

If 10,000 WDW guests per day (less than 10% of daily average visitors for the 4 parks, non-Covid) buy 5 "Premier Passes" each at $10 a pop, that's $500,000 in found money...comes to nearly $200 million a year.

100,000 average visitors over 4 parks? is that really the numbers they were pulling?

 

[Jonfw2]

100,000 average visitors over 4 parks? is that really the numbers they were pulling?

2016 numbers were approx. 53,000,000 total park visits for the 4 parks. Or, 147,000 per day on average.

 

[jade1]

It’s becoming less and less worth going to WDW. At this point, you mind as well save that $5000+ for your vacation and save it towards maybe going to sports games, buying a new car, buying a new house, etc. Disney doesn’t care about the guests as much as they used to. They simply want your money, and that’s it. They don’t care if you wait in lines for hours and have to pay to get through them quicker. It’s the cold and hard truth that everyone needs to face.

Yes please stay away, everyone.

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

100,000 average visitors over 4 parks? is that really the numbers they were pulling?

Based on 2019 attendance numbers (some would be park hoppers but it’s the only reference we have)
MK had 20,000,000+
Animal Kingdom 13,000,000+
Epcot 12,000,000+
Hollywood Studios 11,000,000+
That is 56,000,000, divided by 365 = 153,000ish
With some of that pool being park hoppers, I’d say 100,000 per day is a pretty solid attendance estimate.