United allowing families to sit together for free

[Lewisc]

Also significant to point out that Southwest is exempt from the proposed DOT regulations as they don't have assigned seating.

Absolutely false. From the proposed regulation


If an airline does not provide advance seat assignments at booking at no additional cost for those traveling with a young child or has an open seating policy, the airline should have a policy and procedures in place to ensure adults traveling with young children are able to be seated so that at least one accompanying adult is adjacent to each young child at no additional cost. For example, an airline with an open seating policy may permit an adult traveling with young children to board early enough in the process to obtain adjacent seats. In the alternative, an airline might choose to block seats for use by these travelers at no additional cost.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Absolutely false. From the proposed regulation


If an airline does not provide advance seat assignments at booking at no additional cost for those traveling with a young child or has an open seating policy, the airline should have a policy and procedures in place to ensure adults traveling with young children are able to be seated so that at least one accompanying adult is adjacent to each young child at no additional cost. For example, an airline with an open seating policy may permit an adult traveling with young children to board early enough in the process to obtain adjacent seats. In the alternative, an airline might choose to block seats for use by these travelers at no additional cost.

This has seriously already been discussed a gadzillion times.

The document that came out last July regarding their guidelines (but not law or rule an important distinction) and with no real penalty.

"In addition, Section 2309 does not authorize the Secretary to “impose a significant change in the overall seating or boarding policy of an air carrier providing scheduled passenger interstate or intrastate air transportation that has an open or flexible seating policy in place that generally allows adjacent family seating…”

In addition "For example, an airline with an open seating policy may permit an adult traveling with young children to board early enough in the process to obtain adjacent seats."

SWA already meets these requirements with their Family Boarding procedure and an airline with an open seating policy is outside of the DOT's prevue anyhow (the doesn't not authorize comment).

And for your comment above they do not charge for seating because that isn't how they operate.

But keep in mind the DOT released the document in July 2022 stating they'd look into in 4 months time...anyone heard from the DOT since then?

 

[Lewisc]

This has seriously already been discussed a gadzillion times.

The document that came out last July regarding their guidelines (but not law or rule an important distinction) and with no real penalty.

"In addition, Section 2309 does not authorize the Secretary to “impose a significant change in the overall seating or boarding policy of an air carrier providing scheduled passenger interstate or intrastate air transportation that has an open or flexible seating policy in place that generally allows adjacent family seating…”

In addition "For example, an airline with an open seating policy may permit an adult traveling with young children to board early enough in the process to obtain adjacent seats."

SWA already meets these requirements with their Family Boarding procedure and an airline with an open seating policy is outside of the DOT's prevue anyhow (the doesn't not authorize comment).

And for your comment above they do not charge for seating because that isn't how they operate.

But keep in mind the DOT released the document in July 2022 stating they'd look into in 4 months time...anyone heard from the DOT since then?

Do you really think SW would be testing a change in family boarding if they thought SW was exempt or if they thought present system complies?

Currently an unlimited number of A listers board after A30. A flight with a large number of continuing passengers could be an issue for famlies.

Companies have to pick their battles. United, Frontier and probably SW decided not to fight. Government regulations might be more onerous then the voluntary change currently being implemented

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Do you really think SW would be testing a change in family boarding if they thought SW was exempt or if they thought present system complies?

Currently an unlimited number of A listers board after A30. A flight with a large number of continuing passengers could be an issue for famlies.

Companies have to pick their battles. United, Frontier and probably SW decided not to fight. Government regulations might be more onerous then the voluntary change currently being implemented

I think you're confusing the situation. What the PP stated and what I pasted in from the document is that they are not bound by it, not required by it, and aren't the target for the guidance.

As I stated in the mass SWA thread they like any airline are free to test however they want. They've tested a number of things over this pandemic. They are also free to change any procedure they want to. The point is as it relates to United, Delta, etc is they are not beholden to do so.

Southwest decided not to fight it? The DOT made the document not SWA. As far as government regulations that's exactly why I pasted in the authority part. It explicitly states they do not have the authority.

But for reals can we please not argue this for the gadzillionth time? Our debates are better served IMO discussing the airlines that charge for seat assignment.

 

[HashberryOTG]

I know this is splitting hairs to some, but it wasn't done to charge extra to choose seats. It's a discount for those that don't care. Just like baggage fees give me the choice, so was the purpose of the discount for not picking a seat. Choice. To stop making me pay for a feature I don't care about. At this point I feel the airlines would be better off to stop offering the discount and charge us all the rate to pick a seat whether we care or not. We can't handle the choice. Using "we" and "me" generally here.

 

[sam_gordon]

Why is it okay for you to complain about an airlines policy, but not for other people?

Please show where I've complained about the policy. I'm a firm believer in following policies. As I mentioned, I have a problem with people who AGREE to follow a policy, and then complain that the policy doesn't work for them. As in "I agree that, in order to save money, I'll give up my right to pick where I sit, and acknowledge I and my party will be randomly assigned." Then, when the seat assignments come out... "what do you mean I'm not sitting with my child? How can you expect a child to sit by themselves next to a stranger?"

This policy will not affect which airline I choose. I use price, times, and features. I prefer Delta, and it's rare they're not my selection.

 

[EACarlson]

Do you really think SW would be testing a change in family boarding if they thought SW was exempt or if they thought present system complies?

Yes, SW has long shown a history of trying anything that might allow them to board the plane faster and get an extra trip somewhere along the line.

 

[lowlight]

Please show where I've complained about the policy. I'm a firm believer in following policies. As I mentioned, I have a problem with people who AGREE to follow a policy, and then complain that the policy doesn't work for them. As in "I agree that, in order to save money, I'll give up my right to pick where I sit, and acknowledge I and my party will be randomly assigned." Then, when the seat assignments come out... "what do you mean I'm not sitting with my child? How can you expect a child to sit by themselves next to a stranger?"

This policy will not affect which airline I choose. I use price, times, and features. I prefer Delta, and it's rare they're not my selection.

Has anyone in this thread complained about such a thing?

 

[ttintagel]

I know this is splitting hairs to some, but it wasn't done to charge extra to choose seats. It's a discount for those that don't care. Just like baggage fees give me the choice, so was the purpose of the discount for not picking a seat. Choice. To stop making me pay for a feature I don't care about. At this point I feel the airlines would be better off to stop offering the discount and charge us all the rate to pick a seat whether we care or not. We can't handle the choice. Using "we" and "me" generally here.

Absolutely this. Basic Economy should be like the single rider line at a roller coaster - a discount they offer in exchange for being willing to fill up odd spaces. It shouldn’t be sold to passengers under age 12 or to anybody who needs to sit next to somebody specific.

 

[Boopuff]

I’d love to see the results of the southwest test. However they should try it at MCO. I can only imagine the Agroup getting upset watching half the plane board ahead of them! And the people who buy early bird… could be fun! But from what I understand the families essentially had to sit behind the exit rows- so back of the plane.

 

[Tink3815]

I’d love to see the results of the southwest test. However they should try it at MCO. I can only imagine the Agroup getting upset watching half the plane board ahead of them! And the people who buy early bird… could be fun! But from what I understand the families essentially had to sit behind the exit rows- so back of the plane.

I also heard it is near the back of the plane. I hope so. When you have a short connection like Southwest loves to do, getting off the plane as fast as possible is a must, so sitting in the front is the way to go.

 

[sam_gordon]

Has anyone in this thread complained about such a thing?

No. And I never claimed they did. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? But there have been complaints elsewhere. If no one complained, the gov't wouldn't have stepped in.

 

[lowlight]

No. And I never claimed they did. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? But there have been complaints elsewhere. If no one complained, the gov't wouldn't have stepped in.

Complaints elsewhere like where, specifically? You said you don’t have an issue with this rule change, but you have an issue with people that purchase unassigned seats and complain. I’m just asking where this supposed bogeyman is, since it’s nowhere to be found on Disboards, which is where you started this thread. You can’t keep making threads that you know will stir the pot and feign surprise when people catch you with the ladle in your hand.

 

[sam_gordon]

Complaints elsewhere like where, specifically? You said you don’t have an issue with this rule change, but you have an issue with people that purchase unassigned seats and complain. I’m just asking where this supposed bogeyman is, since it’s nowhere to be found on Disboards, which is where you started this thread. You can’t keep making threads that you know will stir the pot and feign surprise when people catch you with the ladle in your hand.

Alright, you got me. I can't provide a quote or link with parents complaining they were separated from their kids after booking basic economy. I guess that never happened and the government just thought "you know, we need to help prevent this from happening, even though it's never happened."

And how many threads am I making to "stir the pot"? Based on what you said, I must do it a lot. Do you have any links?

 

[Lumpy1106]

I know this is splitting hairs to some, but it wasn't done to charge extra to choose seats. It's a discount for those that don't care. Just like baggage fees give me the choice, so was the purpose of the discount for not picking a seat. Choice. To stop making me pay for a feature I don't care about. At this point I feel the airlines would be better off to stop offering the discount and charge us all the rate to pick a seat whether we care or not. We can't handle the choice. Using "we" and "me" generally here.

Boy did you ever fall for it. You know there was a time not all that long ago where everyone got an assigned seat and didn't have to pay extra for it. Checked bags too. "discount" LOL!

 

[lowlight]

Alright, you got me. I can't provide a quote or link with parents complaining they were separated from their kids after booking basic economy. I guess that never happened and the government just thought "you know, we need to help prevent this from happening, even though it's never happened."

And how many threads am I making to "stir the pot"? Based on what you said, I must do it a lot. Do you have any links?

You think the government exists to help people at the expense of a corporation? The first thread on this subject was locked, it was predictable that this would be a contentious thread also. The Dilbert thread was a predictable mess as well. My point remains, if you don't have an issue with it, and if nobody on Disboards is complaining, just who is your intended target considering the first thread argued all the same points on both sides exhaustively? It's what I call baiting- someone makes a thread they have every reason to believe is going to end up being contentious and leading to locked/points, but leads with the "I don't care either way, but...". I like a lot of aspects of the community forum, but these types of threads just bring out the worst in people. Of course you have every right to discuss whatever you want, and I can not view it if I'm bothered by it, I just don't understand the motivation behind it knowing what it's going to turn into.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Boy did you ever fall for it. You know there was a time not all that long ago where everyone got an assigned seat and didn't have to pay extra for it. Checked bags too. "discount" LOL!

It's been something like 15 or so years though for checked bags. I admit it's annoying to have to either pay for it or have a CC that gets it included or fly SWA for example that still include it. I looked into possible reasons why since I guess I've lived long enough in the post world I'd forgotten what it was like and it said fuel costs as a primary reason. Basically ways for airlines to offset their costs. Which is also why you're seeing airlines suddenly become extremely strict about carry on or personal size rules (sometimes charging when the bag fits).

That said Basic Economy I don't think would have taken off if you didn't have the rise of the no-frills airlines like Frontier, Spirit, I think Allegiant as well, etc where they took the unbundling process to heart. The consumers embraced that and the Legacy carriers looked to that. So instead of someone booking specifically Spirit airlines knowing they would not get something they would book a Legacy carrier with the lowest fare and it's gone down hill since then. And that's not to say that you don't have complaints on those no-frills airlines but rather it's the reason for them existing that they are no-frills.

One of the often repeated advices on the main SWA thread is if you absolutely need to sit together do not book SWA, book an airline with the ability to purchase seats together. That same advice would be for don't book a fare class on an airline that has the ability to purchase seats together that does not have that as part of the fare class if you need seats together.

 

[Lumpy1106]

...

One of the often repeated advices on the main SWA thread is if you absolutely need to sit together do not book SWA, book an airline with the ability to purchase seats together. That same advice would be for don't book a fare class on an airline that has the ability to purchase seats together that does not have that as part of the fare class if you need seats together.

I fly SWA a lot as of late. It's so much like the old FP+ it's ridiculous - if you know the ins-and-outs it's no big deal, but for newbs it can be really irritating. Word-to-the-wise - just set an alarm for 24 hours (minus a couple of minutes) prior to your departure time. Have the app ready to go with your flight info. alarm goes off, you check in, low boarding group acquired (and seating together), guaranteed.
DW just buys the advanced boarding - just doesn't want to chance it. If you have a close connection time I'd do that too as the up-front seats do go fast.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I fly SWA a lot as of late. It's so much like the old FP+ it's ridiculous - if you know the ins-and-outs it's no big deal, but for newbs it can be really irritating. Word-to-the-wise - just set an alarm for 24 hours (minus a couple of minutes) prior to your departure time. Have the app ready to go with your flight info. alarm goes off, you check in, low boarding group acquired (and seating together), guaranteed.
DW just buys the advanced boarding - just doesn't want to chance it. If you have a close connection time I'd do that too as the up-front seats do go fast.

I think the boarding process just throws people for a loop the first time or two they are exposed to it but otherwise it's pretty simple. It's not so much about knowing the ins and outs because there's really not much to know.

The biggest error I see is people thinking the Boarding position on their ticket is their seat. Unfortunately that comes down to not doing any research whatsoever (because there aren't seat assignments).

The other error is not looking at the posts for the numbers and the screen that tells you A, B, or C. Unfortunately that comes down to not doing any research whatsoever AND not listening to the gate agents who explain this process every time you board a plane. By research I do not mean FP+/Disney style. I just mean understanding basic info about the airline you're flying.

https://www.southwest.com/help/day-of-travel/boarding-process (they now have a video too you can watch). Pretty much answers any question there (not posting this for you personally, just showing how the information is available).

 

[focusondisney]

Word-to-the-wise - just set an alarm for 24 hours (minus a couple of minutes) prior to your departure time. Have the app ready to go with your flight info. alarm goes off, you check in, low boarding group acquired (and seating together), guaranteed.

It’s not that easy to get a low boarding group anymore. More people are eligible for EBCI now. Anytime fares get it automatically & some of the SW credit cards offer a few free per year. Plus a lot more people are buying it hoping to get an A group. There have been many posts from people who bought EBCI & got high Bs. Anyone checking in at 24 hours may very well get a C group. Even A 1-15 have been selling out between business select seats & people buying upgraded boarding.