"9/11 cannot be the day civil liberties perished"

[jennyanydots]

court decision

 

[Sirius]

 

[OceanAnnie]

I passed through a metal detector at an amusement park today. No big deal.

 

[LucyStorm]

Let's see--pass through a metal detector or let some whacko show up and kill a bunch of people? I'm sorry, but part of my civil liberties is the right to life. I don't see how a metal detector infringes on anyone's civil liberties, but I sure do see how someone with a weapon and the intent to use it infringes on mine....

 

[OceanAnnie]

Originally posted by LucyStorm
Let's see--pass through a metal detector or let some whacko show up and kill a bunch of people? I'm sorry, but part of my civil liberties is the right to life. I don't see how a metal detector infringes on anyone's civil liberties, but I sure do see how someone with a weapon and the intent to use it infringes on mine....

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by jennyanydots
court decision

It looks like sanity is returning to this country.

 

[rcyannacci]

jennyanydots, thank you for posting this. It is huge.

To others: the point here is not metal detectors anywhere, but the specific use of them during protests, which has become a more and more common practice. The right to protest is fundamental to who we are as Americans. Since 9/11, protestors specifically have been singled out and subjected to privacy violations more than many populations.

It is different from metal detectors at an amusement park. What we are talking about here is public space and the rights attendant to public space, something which is eroding at an alarming rate.

 

[LucyStorm]

I understood the point, but metal detectors at protests or not does not impede on their right to protest.

 

[Jennifer2k3]

[It is different from metal detectors at an amusement park. What we are talking about here is public space and the rights attendant to public space, something which is eroding at an alarming rate. [/B]

How does a metal detector deny anyone the rights attendant to public space? This isn't a slam...it's an honest question. Sure it is an inconvience, but, isn't that small sacrifice worth it if the lives of those attending are more secure?

 

[rcyannacci]

The violation is that protestors specifically are being singled out over other populations and other public events.

 

[Jennifer2k3]

However...it was already pointed out that metal detectors are used in other public venues....amusement parks, stadiums......all places where there are PLANNED congregations of people.

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by Jennifer2k3
How does a metal detector deny anyone the rights attendant to public space? This isn't a slam...it's an honest question. Sure it is an inconvience, but, isn't that small sacrifice worth it if the lives of those attending are more secure?

Because when you set up roadblocks, such as metal detectors, you are possibly, through intimidation, preventing someone from exercising their civil liberties.

I do not believe giving up any of our civil rights makes us safer.

 

[Jennifer2k3]

well...but who are you intimidating with a metal detector? I'd say the very people you don't want at a large gathering of people.

 

[LucyStorm]

I agree. If the point is simply to protest, what is the point of bringing anything that you would have to worry about going through a metal detector?

 

[septbride2002]

“We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until the War on Terror is over, because the War on Terror is unlikely ever to be truly over,” Judge Gerald Tjoflat wrote for the panel. “Sept. 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country.”

This is what I have been trying to say to those individuals who say the War on Terror should be our biggest priority in this election. How many elections will we put civil liberties and domestic issues on the back burner for a War that I don't think will ever truly be over?

~Amanda

 

[disney4us2002]

Originally posted by rcyannacci
The violation is that protestors specifically are being singled out over other populations and other public events.

Yeah, I read that in the article; however, it seems to me to indicate that an individual's rights are more important than the safety of the whole. I don't see the big deal about giving up a few liberties if it prevents death, destruction, and disaster. I'm sure a few will come along and tell me now why I'm oh so wrong.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by Jennifer2k3
However...it was already pointed out that metal detectors are used in other public venues....amusement parks, stadiums......all places where there are PLANNED congregations of people.

Both of these locations that you've mentioned are commercial spaces. The public enters, but only with a ticket. The purchase of that ticket indicates that you are willing to abide by the rules of the organization who owns the property.

BTW- you also won't find protestors in these commercial spaces because they would be removed by the business owners.

There is actually quite a few people who write on the erosion of public space. Think about it- where do people typically congregate today? The mall, a coffee shop, a restaurant...all commercially owned and operated locations. If you aren't a consumer, you have no reason to be there.

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by disney4us2002
Yeah, I read that in the article; however, it seems to me to indicate that an individual's rights are more important than the safety of the whole. I don't see the big deal about giving up a few liberties if it prevents death, destruction, and disaster. I'm sure a few will come along and tell me now why I'm oh so wrong.

9/11 was a truly horrifying day and it scared everybody. And, I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong. You're entitled to this opinion. I will point out that it is easier for someone to agree with thier liberities being erased when they think they aren't the ones who will lose them. Imagine that those in charge today, whom you feel comfortable with, are suddenly gone and now you are the dissenting opinion. You are singled out and have limited rights of protest. Or worse, your children are singled out and criticized for thier views. Don't you want them to have a strong public voice to be able to affect change?

 

[Dream]

Most of the liberties that we hold as most basic to our freedom here in the USA were identified and put on paper during a time when a musket was the worst weapon known to man. I cannot believe that our founding fathers, as forward thinking as they were, would want us to remain in those times in a mental or physical sense.
These are very different times that we live in. Different, but still very free!
It just seems like common sense to amend these freedoms to incorporate the world as it is today. Checking protesters using a metal detector so that we ALL feel safe, as well as free, is a very small price to pay! Checking these crowds with a metal detector does not prohibit their freedome of speech and should in no way intimidate unless they have something to hide!

 

[jennyanydots]

when you enter commercial property you implicitly consent to the rules created by the property owner.

the common law has always drawn distinctiions between invited guests, licensees and trespassers

restrcitons on the right to protest, however, are a governmental intrusion on our civil liberties.

there are ways to keep us reasonably safe and secure without depriving us of our liberties.

ben Franklin had it right:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.