DVC Needs Fee-Free High-Speed Internet

[drakethib]

Every hotel I have been in, in the last 2 years, other than Disney, has provided free internet. It is like the days when hotels, and motels started to offer free TV, then free air conditioning, and finally free Color TV.

I can't say the same.

A good many of the higher end hotels that I have stayed in for work charged the 9.95 per day ) or close to it. Most of the time I am staying there for a convention so maybe that has something to do with it

 

[fishermouse]

Every hotel I have been in, in the last 2 years, other than Disney, has provided free internet. It is like the days when hotels, and motels started to offer free TV, then free air conditioning, and finally free Color TV.

I to travel frequently, and receive FREE internet, FREE newspaper, FREE breakfast, FREE drinks and horsdevours, access to a network printer, transportation to and from the airport if needed the list goes on. These are incentives to get my bussiness. DVC is a time share not a hotel, if/when they start providing internet access with the fee included in dues, I'm not going to sell my points, I may even use it once in a while. Does not mean I think they owe it to us, they don't, I would never assume because I want a new perk everyone else does and should help pay for it. DVC dues are reasonable and a couple dollars more a month will probably not cause a mass sell off of points. I know I'll not lose any sleep over it. Just seems to me like a lot of "I want it, so I deserve it free" mentality. I'm one those with an "I want it so I'll pay for it" mentality, and not burden my neighbors with what I want. Even though I really do LOVE you guys!!!

 

[JimC]

I don't think its a they owe us issue. Or a hotel vs timeshare issue. Or an on-site vs off-site location issue. Rather I think it is DVC's responsibility to obtain the very best services deals possible for the owners (members).

Disney should be able to negotiate a contract as good as Marriott. And DVC should be able to negotiate with Disney to obtain the same favorable terms for its resorts.

The hotel examples are merely demonstrating that it is financially feasible to bulk purchase high speed Internet -- both wired and wireless -- at very low prices. And that it is financially feasible to include that in the pricing structure commonly referred to as budget priced lodging.

 

[DebbieB]

I understand it's probably a necessity for the businesspeople.

But why adamant about no extra charges?

$10 a day is pretty darned expensive. But why MUST it be free? I don't consider in-room internet an extra appendage yet, maybe I am the one behind the times. No matter what they call DVC, it isn't really my home.

I guess I am not crazy about the possibility that sometime in the future I will not have any excuse for not checking my email daily.

I agree that it doesn't have to be free. I would like to see them charge what it actually costs rather than making it free to everyone via higher dues. I doubt that would be $10 per day. Even $5 per day would be more reasonable.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't think its a they owe us issue. Or a hotel vs timeshare issue. Rather I think it is DVC's responsibility to obtain the very best services deals possible for the owners (members).

Disney should be able to negotiate a contract as good as Marriott. And DVC should be able to negotiate with Disney to obtain the same favorable terms for its resorts.

The hotel examples are merely demonstrating that it is financially feasible to bulk purchase high speed Internet -- both wired and wireless -- at very low prices. And that it is financially feasible to include that in the pricing structure commonly referred to as budget priced lodging.

But couldn't we make the same argument about other aspects of the resort operation?

By that definition, shouldn't DVC be able to get members more favorable rates on resort dining or room service? Shouldn't we get better prices on t-shirts, baseball caps and sunglasses? Shouldn't we be able to get a 2 litre of soda for less than $3.75 at a resort general store?

Or are these all just examples of profit centers that are part and parcel of vacation resort destinations?

 

[Dean]

I know you said "IMO", and you're entitled to that.
With that said, I think the main reason the Disney Resorts are successful is because of the theming. Being on property certainly adds to the success, and being an on site Disney property is the reason for the intricate theming, but honestly...
Do you think Disney could build a generic cookie cutter resort, within property boundries, then charge $350/night?? I don't, and I believe the value resorts, prove that.

In summary, I believe much of the premium paid for staying on site is in the theming. The on site perks, and Disney customer service adds to it.

I apologize if I took this thread off topic.

MG

Actually I think the main reason the DVC resorts are success is for one reason only, that they are on property.

I'd agree that if your personal preference is to stay offsite, then DVC can't compete with your personal preference.

For those of us who prefer the benefits of staying onsite the "huge price" isn't important, including internet access. If you enjoy the amenities available at offsite resorts, by all means take advantage of that option.

We enjoy being able to access Disney Theme Parks by either walking, taking a boat or by monorail or bus. We enjoy being able to take a break from the afternoon heat by heading to our onsite resort for an hour or two. The convenience afforded from the onsite resorts is a big part of our enjoyment and the minor inconvenience of either not using the internet or by paying to check email is pretty minor to us.

If the free internet at offsite resorts outweighs the benefits of staying at WDW then the personal preference certainly is a critical component.

As I've said many times, I enjoy staying on property and have been a DVC member for over 13 years. We always drive and usually drive when we go to the parks other than for MK. High speed is one factor of many, certainly not the main one from my standpoint. But I would assertain that there are many resorts on par with the DVC resorts in the Orlando area and that are superior to DVC resorts in some ways. The idea that DVC resorts are superior to off site resorts across the board is simply wrong. They are what they are because of theming and the fact they are on property. Otherwise they are simply very nice resorts that tend to have smallish rooms and have poorly equipped studios.

 

[JimC]

But couldn't we make the same argument about other aspects of the resort operation?

By that definition, shouldn't DVC be able to get members more favorable rates on resort dining or room service? Shouldn't we get better prices on t-shirts, baseball caps and sunglasses? Shouldn't we be able to get a 2 litre of soda for less than $3.75 at a resort general store?

Or are these all just examples of profit centers that are part and parcel of vacation resort destinations?

Certainly DVC can negotiate for better pricing on any aspect of the vacation experience. But I don't think merchandising or food & beverage operations are part of the physical member owned property. I suspect (but have not researched) that DVD or the corporation(s) that own the resorts retain ownership of that space and determine its use.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

But couldn't we make the same argument about other aspects of the resort operation?

By that definition, shouldn't DVC be able to get members more favorable rates on resort dining or room service? Shouldn't we get better prices on t-shirts, baseball caps and sunglasses? Shouldn't we be able to get a 2 litre of soda for less than $3.75 at a resort general store?

Or are these all just examples of profit centers that are part and parcel of vacation resort destinations?

There is a big difference between those things that are and that are not part of "the condominium."

Our DVC condos, their contents, the common areas, and the services that are directly related to the condos are part of "the condominium." Their operations are funded through each DVC resort's operating budget. The DVC management company (which is owned by Disney) has an obligation to manage for the benefit of members. We pay the actual operating costs plus a management fee.

The restaurants and shops are not part of "the condominium." They are retained by Disney's food & beverage operations and retail operations. As DVC members, we neither pay their operating budgets, nor do we have any involvement in whatever profits or losses these businesses make.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I agree that it doesn't have to be free. I would like to see them charge what it actually costs rather than making it free to everyone via higher dues. I doubt that would be $10 per day. Even $5 per day would be more reasonable.

There are two business models for high-speed Internet access:

Model 1 --> Charge a small number of people a large amount of money, through individual daily purchase (which is the current business model for high-speed Internet at DVC resorts at WDW).

Model 2 --> Charge a large number of people a small amount of money, through bulk purchase (which is the business model that Marriott Vacation Club and many other timeshares use).​

Model 1 essentially says, "Unless you need to do serious work, don't bother using the high-speed Internet."

Model 2 is the same business model that gives us cable TV and swimming pools. I don't think DVC guests would be very happy if there were a $10 per day charge to use the pool ("But I just want to take a quick 10-minute dip in the pool"). And the explanation that there are many DVC members who never use the pool wouldn't go over very well. A laptop user might just want to take 10 minutes to check e-mail or to glance at a WDW restaurant menu online.

It's unlikely that we'll see a cut from $10 (actually $9.95) per day to $5 per day. That would simply mean cutting revenue in half without doing much of anything to increase guest satisfaction or to add to the competitiveness of DVC or to increase the daily use. It would still be unattractive to use high-speed Internet unless one had an overriding business reason to do so.

We're much more likely to see Disney and DVC recognize that many guests now see high-speed Internet as an expected "pipe" in the room, just like water, cable TV, electricity, and a phone line -- and that number is increasing. It's just a question of when it will happen.

 

[BroganMc]

This debate reminds me so much of an argument I had with my uncle pre-2000. He insisted come Y2K the internet would implode and everyone would figure out it was just a fad (really only good for shut-ins). I said the internet was here to stay and would increasingly become part of everyone's daily lives.

7 years later and I see the world is even more entrenched in the net. We use it to make phone calls, go shopping, do research, plan our trips, check the weather, go to school, etc.

The point is no one has to use the net or even stay on it for hours on end, but more and more folks are coming to expect it. It is cheap enough to provide guests while increasing your consumer satisfaction without hurting your bottomline. Disney is just late to the party in this respect. They tend to want to do everything their way so can get antiquated about some things.

 

[tjkraz]

Certainly DVC can negotiate for better pricing on any aspect of the vacation experience. But I don't think merchandising or food & beverage operations are part of the physical member owned property. I suspect (but have not researched) that DVD or the corporation(s) that own the resorts retain ownership of that space and determine its use.

So should Disney should have tagged our dues for all of the cable pulls and equipment installation? Wiring for high-speed access wasn't part of the initial construction (except for SSR), so Disney shouldn't have to foot the bill for that cost.

Cable pulls can cost hundreds of dollars per location, plus you've got additional in-room hardware (modem/router), patch cables, switches, excavation required for underground installation, etc. While I doubt any of us has seen the agreements, it seems to be accepted as fact that Disney reached an agreement with an outside vendor to install the infrastructure and provide service for a set period of time. In return, that vendor is guaranteed revenue of $9.95 / 24 hours for each customer who utilizes high-speed access.

Rather than recouping the installation costs via contract with the service provider, should Disney have just charged all of that to member dues?

While we can try our hand at justifying other pricing models, the bottom line may well be that the service provider is simply unwilling to alter the agreement. If that's the case, Disney's hands are tied. They aren't going to subsidize reduced rates for DVC members just to give us a better deal.

When the current deal expires, we can only hope that Disney will enter into a new agreement more advantageous to all resort guests.

 

[Longhairbear]

This debate reminds me so much of an argument I had with my uncle pre-2000. He insisted come Y2K the internet would implode and everyone would figure out it was just a fad (really only good for shut-ins). I said the internet was here to stay and would increasingly become part of everyone's daily lives.

7 years later and I see the world is even more entrenched in the net. We use it to make phone calls, go shopping, do research, plan our trips, check the weather, go to school, etc.

The point is no one has to use the net or even stay on it for hours on end, but more and more folks are coming to expect it. It is cheap enough to provide guests while increasing your consumer satisfaction without hurting your bottomline. Disney is just late to the party in this respect. They tend to want to do everything their way so can get antiquated about some things.

I totally agree with you. That is the point I failed to make. My dad used to crab about having free color TV in the room, as he knew we kids would want to watch it.
As for the hotel vs. timeshare viewpoint, I would have to respond by pointing out that if color TV was not in the DVC units, but available in off property hotels, many would probably cry foul. Many now crab about DVD vs. VHS in studios.
Free internet service is becoming as normal as a TV in the hospitality industry. Disney is late to the party, whether it be a hotel, or DVC.

 

[fishermouse]

There are two business models for high-speed Internet access:

Model 1 --> Charge a small number of people a large amount of money, through individual daily purchase (which is the current business model for high-speed Internet at DVC resorts at WDW).

Model 2 --> Charge a large number of people a small amount of money, through bulk purchase (which is the business model that Marriott Vacation Club and many other timeshares use).​

Model 1 essentially says, "Unless you need to do serious work, don't bother using the high-speed Internet."

Model 2 is the same business model that gives us cable TV and swimming pools. I don't think DVC guests would be very happy if there were a $10 per day charge to use the pool ("But I just want to take a quick 10-minute dip in the pool"). And the explanation that there are many DVC members who never use the pool wouldn't go over very well. A laptop user might just want to take 10 minutes to check e-mail or to glance at a WDW restaurant menu online.

It's unlikely that we'll see a cut from $10 (actually $9.95) per day to $5 per day. That would simply mean cutting revenue in half without doing much of anything to increase guest satisfaction or to add to the competitiveness of DVC or to increase the daily use. It would still be unattractive to use high-speed Internet unless one had an overriding business reason to do so.

We're much more likely to see Disney and DVC recognize that many guests now see high-speed Internet as an expected "pipe" in the room, just like water, cable TV, electricity, and a phone line -- and that number is increasing. It's just a question of when it will happen.

Unfortunatly your end result is right on the money (no pun intended) although I would arue against it, I'm sure we'll see access included as soon as whatever agreement DVC has with the provider expires. SSR and AKV will be easy so we won't have as large a burden in dues as the older resorts. Wireless is the way to go but these resorts are large with loads of interference, so even wireless will require a lot of hardware, also has security issues. I can already see the law suits because many folks don't know how to secure their PC's so they'll blame Disney. Plus the guests with hardwired nic cards will be complaining because their not treated fair. Won't be long we'll want PC's in the rooms so we don't have to bring our own.
As far as comparing internet to pools etc. these we're part of what we bought, right there in nice color pictures. If I bought a time share that had no pool I would not insist they install one. Some people don't use pools at all but having to pay for it's upkeep was part of what they bought into.
For the posts that mentioned discounts at resturants and on merchandise, I don't know what discount Marriot gives but I use my DVC Member card frequently and enjoy lots of discounts on merchadise and dining, as well as my season pass.

 

[fishermouse]

. We use it to make phone calls, go shopping, do research, plan our trips, check the weather, go to school, etc.

You failed to mention chatting on the DIS BOARDS!!!!

 

[lisareniff]

This debate reminds me so much of an argument I had with my uncle pre-2000. He insisted come Y2K the internet would implode and everyone would figure out it was just a fad (really only good for shut-ins). I said the internet was here to stay and would increasingly become part of everyone's daily lives.

7 years later and I see the world is even more entrenched in the net. We use it to make phone calls, go shopping, do research, plan our trips, check the weather, go to school, etc.

Yep! Our cable went out one evening (TV, Phone, Internet) for what turned out to be a pretty short time, and we didn't know what to do with our selves. ....so we went to sleep.

 

[rantnnravin]

As far as comparing internet to pools etc. these we're part of what we bought, right there in nice color pictures. If I bought a time share that had no pool I would not insist they install one. Some people don't use pools at all but having to pay for it's upkeep was part of what they bought into.

yes, but those who bought OKW bought knowing that it had no pool slide...
but when pool slides became the "norm", the owners even those who didn't ask for it paid more, because it was best for the overall well-being of the resort.
I cannot abide, however, with the "I don't use it, so it shouldn't be made available to others except via extortion" mentality. $10 a day is waaay too much. $5 a day is waaay too much. I take master's classes and need to be able to do some schoolwork while vacationing. In fact, I need to be online at lest three specific times per week. It would cost me no less than $30 per vacation just to attend class for an hour at a time. That's more than the highest-cost ISP per month!

I don't use the exercise facitilities, but there are others who enjoy spending their vacation time on the treadmill. If the fitness room needs updating of equipment, should i begrudge those who like to stay fit while on vacation in the same way that those who don't use the internet begrudge those who want to stay connected?
And, using the same mentality, don't update the refrigerators in the larger units either because we should be happy to keep what was there when we signed on.
And also, why is it so far-fetched to have free internet for DVC while WDW resort guest still pay OOP? Don't we get free telephone calls, while others pay an access fee? Although, when i signed on, I had to pay for local calls. Perhaps, they should have kept the fee? -- especially since i don't use the in-room phone while i'm on vacation. i use my cell for emergencies and such. I don't want people being able to contact me on vacation. Take the phones out, I say!

 

[Mule2007]

Maybe opt for a "Business Center" like some of the Hotels and Suite Motels -- a dedicated area or two within the Resort for Internet connections, fax and Printer. Maybe even a dedicated computer or two.

I know it's a vacation - but people do like to bring their laptop to check email and share the good time they're having.

Mule

 

[Dean]

There are two business models for high-speed Internet access:

Model 1 --> Charge a small number of people a large amount of money, through individual daily purchase (which is the current business model for high-speed Internet at DVC resorts at WDW).

Model 2 --> Charge a large number of people a small amount of money, through bulk purchase (which is the business model that Marriott Vacation Club and many other timeshares use).​

Model 1 essentially says, "Unless you need to do serious work, don't bother using the high-speed Internet."

Model 2 is the same business model that gives us cable TV and swimming pools. I don't think DVC guests would be very happy if there were a $10 per day charge to use the pool ("But I just want to take a quick 10-minute dip in the pool"). And the explanation that there are many DVC members who never use the pool wouldn't go over very well. A laptop user might just want to take 10 minutes to check e-mail or to glance at a WDW restaurant menu online.

It's unlikely that we'll see a cut from $10 (actually $9.95) per day to $5 per day. That would simply mean cutting revenue in half without doing much of anything to increase guest satisfaction or to add to the competitiveness of DVC or to increase the daily use. It would still be unattractive to use high-speed Internet unless one had an overriding business reason to do so.

We're much more likely to see Disney and DVC recognize that many guests now see high-speed Internet as an expected "pipe" in the room, just like water, cable TV, electricity, and a phone line -- and that number is increasing. It's just a question of when it will happen.

With timesharews there is a third model, it's provide what a signifiant portion of the owners want or need included in the dues. In this situation it can be done for pennies on the dollar compared to the current pricing if done in house with limited contracting help. Timeshares should always weight the cost and benefit as well as judging how large the market will be for a specific item. There are always things that everyone will pay for that they don't use, for us that usually includes the pools and transportation for the most part, we'd be better off with pay to play for those items. Kids programs and staff related come under that category as well. But given it's more economical to simply do it than worry whether it's going to pay for itself, things that benefit a fairly large segment and are not too expensive are best spread across everyone. There are resorts that provide free golf that are included in the dues obviously a very expensive option. One I know provides free golf for 2 for 7 days and has dues about $400 a week above comparable resorts. Many timeshares also offer free or lwo cost computers to use for members and/or guests.

 

[fishermouse]

I've lost this battle many times over at the voting booths, as a nation we keep insisting that if it's good for some it must be good for everyone, so lets raise the fee (tax) for all. That way I get what I want for less, will internet access be provided in the near future? Probably Yes! Do I really care? No! Just the principle, by the way where does it end? There will always be something else someone wants, if enough people want it we'll get it. Once I'm forced to pay for it Iwill probably use it when I drive down but I'm not lugging my lap top when I don't have to. Drag it with on bussiness trips as it is. I'm not big on carry on, prefer to have nothing with me when I get on the plane. By the way email and web browseing can now be done with most cell phones.

 

[tjkraz]

yes, but those who bought OKW bought knowing that it had no pool slide...
but when pool slides became the "norm", the owners (who felt this was an important part of the vacation experience that they were missing) argued for one. It was reflected in higher dues.
---they wanted it, they paid for it, and even those who didn't ask for it paid more, because it was best for the overall well-being of the resort.

If memory serves, this isn't an accurate representation of what happened. OKW owners were asked several times, via survey, if they wanted a slide added to the pool. The majority always voted "no".

There was no great push by members to get the slide added. It was Disney that wanted a slide at each deluxe resort, so they paid the construction costs themselves. The ongoing maintenance costs and lifeguard salaries were then forced upon OKW owners.