DVC Needs Fee-Free High-Speed Internet

[rantnnravin]

If memory serves, this isn't an accurate representation of what happened. OKW owners were asked several times, via survey, if they wanted a slide added to the pool. The majority always voted "no".

There was no great push by members to get the slide added. It was Disney that wanted a slide at each deluxe resort, so they paid the construction costs themselves. The ongoing maintenance costs and lifeguard salaries were then forced upon OKW owners.

ok, so edit my comment to say, instead:
yes, but those who bought OKW bought knowing that it had no pool slide...
but when pool slides became the "norm", even those who didn't ask for it paid more, because it was best for the overall well-being of the resort.


ETA: Just curious, did disney release the results of their survey, or are we going by the "overwhelming majority" of owners represented here on the DIS?

 

[tjkraz]

ok, so edit my comment to say, instead:
yes, but those who bought OKW bought knowing that it had no pool slide...
but when pool slides became the "norm", even those who didn't ask for it paid more, because it was best for the overall well-being of the resort.

But shouldn't the opinions of the owners of a resort decide what is best for it's "overall well-being"?

ETA: Just curious, did disney release the results of their survey, or are we going by the "overwhelming majority" of owners represented here on the DIS?

Yes, they did.

Disney asked owners because their original goal was to charge the construction costs back to member dues. When members came out against it, overwhelmingly if I recall correctly, it was instead forced upon them.

 

[rantnnravin]

ok from what i "can" find using the **** search-dog:

in 1999 there was a survey done:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=226965&referrerid=&highlight=OKW+slide+survey

OKW real estate holders were also asked their opnion on adding a slide at OKW. There would be a one-time cost of approximately $.05 per point plus an estimated $.02 (1999 dollars) per vacation point for lifeguards required with the slide. Of those responding, 42% would support; 58% would not.

if i'm not mistaken, BCV and VWL hadn't opened yet, and pool-hopping was allowed all over, so who needed a slide then, right?

but then, in 2004, according to this thread:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=540337&referrerid=&highlight=OKW+slide+survey

I was told when I asked about the OKW slide what had prompted this the response was this. We have recieved a large number of letters and e mails regarding a slide @ OKW from our members both from OKW and other resorts after looking it over we decided to do this for the benefit of all our members.

and, at the 2004 OKW owners meeting:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=692643&referrerid=&highlight=OKW+slide+survey

BUDGET PRESENTATION: Terri Schultz, DVC Treasurer, presented the budget. Operating expenses are basically the the day-to-day expenses to maintain the resort; these expenses went up about 5% due to the new pool slide & more housekeeping because OKW was more highly occupied. There are funds in the reserves budget set aside for the pool slide. Taxes are up about 7% all over DVC due to an increase in the Orange County assessment. Taxes for 2004 are about 8 cents more for 2004 than was estimated last year.

Jim Lewis said:

3. OKW pool slide should open in mid-December. He said, "We take your feedback very seriously."

while i can certainly see where 58 vs 42% in 1999 was a majority, I wouldn't call it an "overwhelming majority"
and it really wouldn't surprise me that more members wanted a pool slide 5 years later, especially seeing what the newer DVCs had to offer and finally being completely sold out (new buildings) in 2000.

but back on topic,
in the early 80's, IBM told Steve Jobs "regular people" didn't need or want "personal computers" - good thing he didn't listen to them, huh?
in 1994 the internet was a joke...in 2007, for many, it's a necessity

 

[JimC]

So should Disney should have tagged our dues for all of the cable pulls and equipment installation? Wiring for high-speed access wasn't part of the initial construction (except for SSR), so Disney shouldn't have to foot the bill for that cost.

Cable pulls can cost hundreds of dollars per location, plus you've got additional in-room hardware (modem/router), patch cables, switches, excavation required for underground installation, etc. While I doubt any of us has seen the agreements, it seems to be accepted as fact that Disney reached an agreement with an outside vendor to install the infrastructure and provide service for a set period of time. In return, that vendor is guaranteed revenue of $9.95 / 24 hours for each customer who utilizes high-speed access.

Rather than recouping the installation costs via contract with the service provider, should Disney have just charged all of that to member dues?

While we can try our hand at justifying other pricing models, the bottom line may well be that the service provider is simply unwilling to alter the agreement. If that's the case, Disney's hands are tied. They aren't going to subsidize reduced rates for DVC members just to give us a better deal.

When the current deal expires, we can only hope that Disney will enter into a new agreement more advantageous to all resort guests.

I am unsure what point you are trying to make. I was responding to your question regarding merchandising, food/beverage and DVC. Actually the OP did a better job at expressing it in a post just after mine.

I agree that Disney probably made a deal for infrastructure that resulted in the current pricing program. But they could also have made a different deal that resulted in a program spreading the cost across the entire membership and gotten the infrastructure included. I am not debating what they did but what they should do when the contract expires.

My points are that the market has shifted, pricing is declining and wire/wireless high speed Internet service is not costly when spread across all owners. I want DVC to negotiate the next contract more favorably and to bundle that as a basic service. I believe that was the opening statement of the OP at the start of this thread, which I continue to support.

 

[Dean]

ok, so edit my comment to say, instead:
yes, but those who bought OKW bought knowing that it had no pool slide...
but when pool slides became the "norm", even those who didn't ask for it paid more, because it was best for the overall well-being of the resort.


ETA: Just curious, did disney release the results of their survey, or are we going by the "overwhelming majority" of owners represented here on the DIS?

The legal requirements that DVD and DVC have in relationship to OKW is related to the state laws in place that require s substantially equivalent set of amenities (I paraphrase) when it was sold retail. Given that DVD is selling OKW as new points currently instead of resale, that is a moving target. Plus just because they add something doesn't mean they have the same authority to take it away, in some cases they do not. But while what was there when sold does not automatically mean it is required to cont. to be present, it depends on the specifics. I'd agree that major items are unlikely to be taken away in terms of infrastructure and hard items. The same does not hold true for reservation requirements, wait lists, lottery's, etc. ie the smoking ban.

 

[spiceycat]

okay with the CR now offering free internet. if there is a CRV do you think it will have free internet?

 

[drakethib]

And also, why is it so far-fetched to have free internet for DVC while WDW resort guest still pay OOP? Don't we get free telephone calls, while others pay an access fee? Although, when i signed on, I had to pay for local calls. Perhaps, they should have kept the fee? -- especially since i don't use the in-room phone while i'm on vacation. i use my cell for emergencies and such. I don't want people being able to contact me on vacation. Take the phones out, I say!

Let us not forget that DVC members have a toll free number to call for reservations while others must call long distance


So why not discounted or free (dreaming) internet....

 

[drakethib]

You know, if Al Gore had took up golf instead of inventing the internet, we would not be having this debate right now.

 

[Dean]

I was thinking as I was driving home how much less stressful it is for me to take my computer along with me. I can clear out email and handle things along from work rather than having it all to do the first day or so when I get home. Rather than having 300 emails and 200 work related emails and task sitting there to all be done almost at one time I just sign on once a day or so and handle them a few at a time. Since it's all got to be done, I can do it at my leisure on a trip in most cases. And no more going in to the office the day or night of arrival or getting up super early the first day back to do the work related issues. Plus the extra benefit of taking some work off my partner during the time I'm away, I feel guilty enough leaving him the times I do.

 

[drakethib]

I was thinking as I was driving home how much less stressful it is for me to take my computer along with me. I can clear out email and handle things along from work rather than having it all to do the first day or so when I get home. Rather than having 300 emails and 200 work related emails and task sitting there to all be done almost at one time I just sign on once a day or so and handle them a few at a time. Since it's all got to be done, I can do it at my leisure on a trip in most cases. And no more going in to the office the day or night of arrival or getting up super early the first day back to do the work related issues. Plus the extra benefit of taking some work off my partner during the time I'm away, I feel guilty enough leaving him the times I do.

Dean.

Well said.

Sometimes it is hard to enjoy vacation when you know that a ton of work is waiting for you when you get back to the office.

Ten minutes of email while sipping a drink by the pool can save you hours or work when you return from vacation.

There are some people who are able to "turn off" work both mentally and physically while they are gone. Some off us cannot as much as we would like to.

 

[Dean]

Dean.

Well said.

Sometimes it is hard to enjoy vacation when you know that a ton of work is waiting for you when you get back to the office.

Ten minutes of email while sipping a drink by the pool can save you hours or work when you return from vacation.

There are some people who are able to "turn off" work both mentally and physically while they are gone. Some off us cannot as much as we would like to.

Thanks. I do not want to totally detach myself. I enjoy what I do and feel a sense of responsibility to those that have chosen me to care for their family as well as to my staff and my partner, without whom I could not even take vacation. I am so blessed with staff that I know I can count on and a partner that could not be easier to work with. If I walked in tomorrow and said I want to take off next week too and by the way, can you cover my calls and nursery responsibilities also, he would do so without hesitation. I make every effort to return the favor any chance I have. We once had a call situation where there were four of us taking call and one person that would gripe if they got the first and last call of a month that had 5 weekends never mind that they got exactly the same number over the year.

 

[fishermouse]

You know, if Al Gore had took up golf instead of inventing the internet, we would not be having this debate right now.

We would be fighting over putt-putt golf courses at every resort....FREE of course..

 

[BroganMc]

There are some people who are able to "turn off" work both mentally and physically while they are gone. Some off us cannot as much as we would like to.

If internet was only used for work, I could see folks arguing that it should be for pay only. But the internet is used for so many things now. My dad likes to check in to clear his mail and keep up with his bill paying, as well as check the sports scores and highlights. I'm known to log in and do a little research on my travel destination. See a new restaurant and want to check out the menu, just hop online. It's even kept me from overpaying for something in the store. Not to mention I'd be lost with a Google Earth virtual map of my drive. And of course I can e-mail the folks back home (all at once instead of multiple phone calls) with some pics of what we did that day. Then there's the news and real time weather radars (or local movie times). When I was on vacation two weeks ago there was a big accident on the Bay Bridge at home. My sis e-mailed about it and I was able to watch the local newscast at home. I also was able to check all the news stories about the brush fires around Florida and advisories.

And on the chance I get a call from a client, I can tend that too. But mostly it helps if I've been in deadline to finish something before I left and have one leftover thing.

Basically the internet allows us to go on long vacations because if we need or want to check in, we can. Pretty much just at night before bed or early in the morning with coffee.

 

[kdzgon]

okay with the CR now offering free internet. if there is a CRV do you think it will have free internet?

Didn't know that! When did CR start offering free internet?

 

[kdzgon]

If internet was only used for work, I could see folks arguing that it should be for pay only. But the internet is used for so many things now. My dad likes to check in to clear his mail and keep up with his bill paying, as well as check the sports scores and highlights. I'm known to log in and do a little research on my travel destination. See a new restaurant and want to check out the menu, just hop online. It's even kept me from overpaying for something in the store. Not to mention I'd be lost with a Google Earth virtual map of my drive. And of course I can e-mail the folks back home (all at once instead of multiple phone calls) with some pics of what we did that day. Then there's the news and real time weather radars (or local movie times). When I was on vacation two weeks ago there was a big accident on the Bay Bridge at home. My sis e-mailed about it and I was able to watch the local newscast at home. I also was able to check all the news stories about the brush fires around Florida and advisories.

And on the chance I get a call from a client, I can tend that too. But mostly it helps if I've been in deadline to finish something before I left and have one leftover thing.

Basically the internet allows us to go on long vacations because if we need or want to check in, we can. Pretty much just at night before bed or early in the morning with coffee.

While I agree with this point of view and posted something similar, I also agree with Dean and others that post it's helpful (at a minimum) to be able to check in with work, too. But, actually, I don't think any of us should need to defend "why" we think it is a nice (or necessary) option on a personal level. To me, it still seems like an argument that "[I/we] don't use it, so why should [I/we] pay for it?", and IMO that argument simply does not hold water, especially as a counter against the statement that the fee is high considering the current market rates of internet access.

I don't know how long the agreement has been in place, but I think the price was pretty standard at one point. I also believe we will see a change at some point - the questions are when, and how much of a change? It's ironic to me that Disney excels in some computer-driven areas (animatronics, etc) yet their administrative computer-related operations (websites, reservation systems, internet provisions, etc) seem to be behind the curve.

BTW, to the OP, there are a few business center locations, although not at every resort, and there is a usage fee per service(s).

rantnnravin, nice research - thanks for posting some concrete info, especially for those of us not around long enough to have first-hand knowledge of previous events.

 

[fishermouse]

While I agree with this point of view and posted something similar, I also agree with Dean and others that post it's helpful (at a minimum) to be able to check in with work, too. But, actually, I don't think any of us should need to defend "why" we think it is a nice (or necessary) option on a personal level. To me, it still seems like an argument that "[I/we] don't use it, so why should [I/we] pay for it?", and IMO that argument simply does not hold water, especially as a counter against the statement that the fee is high considering the current market rates of internet access.

On this we agree, no one has to come up with why they want access included in dues any more than any one has to defend not wanting it added to their dues. Why someone wants is actually not relevant to the debate. It's all a matter of preference. Does not make any of us bad people, just different opinions. We can still drink a beer together, or soda, I know not everyone agrees on drinking a beer either. At some point, I'm convinced, internet service will be included, the only question is when. Within weeks of access being added we'll forget all about it and find something else to discuss. Keeps DISboards from becoming dull.

 

[BroganMc]

While I agree with this point of view and posted something similar, I also agree with Dean and others that post it's helpful (at a minimum) to be able to check in with work, too. But, actually, I don't think any of us should need to defend "why" we think it is a nice (or necessary) option on a personal level. To me, it still seems like an argument that "[I/we] don't use it, so why should [I/we] pay for it?", and IMO that argument simply does not hold water, especially as a counter against the statement that the fee is high considering the current market rates of internet access.

I wasn't trying to defend my use just illustrate the various ways we use the internet at home and abroad. I'm just as happy as the next person not to be chained to my computer and instead go ride Soarin' for the 10th time. But I've come to expect net access just like I expect hot water in my shower and a fridge in my room. I guess I'm spoiled by the other hotel chains I've stayed in. 3-4 years ago I was opting to leave the computer at home or work out some crazy dialup provider scheme. Making me pay is a step backward for Disney, compared to what other chains offer.

I still remember when my SSR sales guide gave us the grand tour and gleefully showed off the access to the internet at an "affordable daily fee". He meant it as some great advantage of Disney (over our Marriott timeshare). Our faces fell and I just said, "Uh, actually we get that for free at Marriott, and it's wireless." It was like he had showed us the jacuzzi tub and told us it was there for a small $5 bath fee, and we had complimentary buckets to go haul the water in from a well.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I disagree. The other items you've mentioned are basics of any resort. Broadband internet access is too. But FREE broadband internet is not.

I don't go to WDW to work, or to play on the Internet. In fact, I welcome the fact that I don't have internet access!

If someone REALLY needs to contact me, they can call my cell. And if I REALLY need internet, I can pay the $10.

Sorry Jim, but I have to disagree with you on this one... In fact, I would pay to have broadband in my room! DVC is WAY behind the times. When I go on vacation I NEED to check in and make sure all is well (first thing in the morning), then I can have a relaxed dive into the ocean at VB and a worry free rest of the day. I never encourage anyone at my work to contact me via cell phone. In fact my cell phone gets put aside when I am at a DVC resort.

I cannot remember a hotel that does not offer FREE broadbband... DVC is just not up to speed here. You want to contact me on my vacation... send me an email... don't try to call me...

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Basically the internet allows us to go on long vacations because if we need or want to check in, we can. Pretty much just at night before bed or early in the morning with coffee.

If I had just read your post (before mine)... I would have just said... ditto....

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I wasn't trying to defend my use just illustrate the various ways we use the internet at home and abroad. I'm just as happy as the next person not to be chained to my computer and instead go ride Soarin' for the 10th time. But I've come to expect net access just like I expect hot water in my shower and a fridge in my room. I guess I'm spoiled by the other hotel chains I've stayed in. 3-4 years ago I was opting to leave the computer at home or work out some crazy dialup provider scheme. Making me pay is a step backward for Disney, compared to what other chains offer.

I still remember when my SSR sales guide gave us the grand tour and gleefully showed off the access to the internet at an "affordable daily fee". He meant it as some great advantage of Disney (over our Marriott timeshare). Our faces fell and I just said, "Uh, actually we get that for free at Marriott, and it's wireless." It was like he had showed us the jacuzzi tub and told us it was there for a small $5 bath fee, and we had complimentary buckets to go haul the water in from a well.

You are right... the Internet is here. I use it to get directions, phone numbers for retail establishments, restaurant reviews, maps, and much other wonderful information (while on my vacation too). I also use it to check in on my job... If I couldn't do that, I would just be worrying... The mind has a tendancy to picture things worse than they are. I get relaxation and comfort to know that all is well at work. If something is wrong at my work, I take care of it.... then I let it go. DVC needs to get with the rest of the world and make Internet connection in the room a normal (FREE) feature.