DVC Point Charts for 2011 - Post chart release discussion begins on Pg 14

I think most understand your post. many, myself included, disagree with what a business "SHOULD" do. Obviously what should be done is what is legally required to be done. Taking into account factors which are not legally allowed to be part of the equation when deciding if a reallocation is necessary or how said reallocation is to be carried out is not good business. This would open the business up to lawsuits and make bad business sense.

And I humbly respect your disagreement as such, even if I disagree with you on it as I don't feel what I am saying would actually open Disney up to lawsuits because obviously in the proposed discussions, that factor would be taken into account.

It's cool, I'm done talking about it. I appreciate your respectful post.
 
As I've said before on the DIS, the lack of communication between DVC and the members shows a genuine lack of maturity by DVC management.

I will not say that Jim Lewis is necessarily the person showing immaturity, but the buck stops at Jim. Ultimately, it is all his responsibility.

I don't always agree with everything that DVC does, but get truly annoyed at the lack of communication.

ITA:thumbsup2
 
Doesn't matter Brian. You keep focusing and obsessing on the mechanism of change and are NOT looking at the REASONS of the change, which is what i have said in several posts now. I don't care about the mechanism as its irrelevant to the discussion; I care about the Business REASONING and STRATEGY. In other words, I am talking about them COMING to the decision, not executing the decision, which has been your focus. When reaching the decision to make a points change all factors need to be taken into account. Failure to do so is abject stupidity on Disney's part.
IMO, many are looking for conspiracies where there are none whether it be the valet or the reallocation. I doubt DVC even considered the other factors beyond usage imbalances, costs and work of the reallocation. The reallocation should have been done about every few years starting somewhere around 2001 or so (Following 1996) and it likely would have been if DVC had not been so worried about people complaining. I also realize there is cost involved in doing so. I think the better approach would have been to make minor changes along both to avoid the larger changes later AND to let members know that it could and would happen instead of being some nebulous threat sitting in the POS. To say that DVC made this change in response to non utilization issues is grasping for straws, IMO.
 
I think the better approach would have been to make minor changes along both to avoid the larger changes later AND to let members know that it could and would happen instead of being some nebulous threat sitting in the POS. To say that DVC made this change in response to non utilization issues is grasping for straws, IMO.

I agree with this statement. If they made minor adjustments every other year to the point charts there would be an expectation that they are fluid and lessen the need to make large changes. Perhaps it would be easier to get the charts out in a timely manner and communicate to the members if it was more routine.
 
I agree with Dean - make minor changes almost every year rather than trying to make a big change after too many years of letting things slide would be better. Given that DVC looks to be trying to make a big change to re balance, why didn't they simply publish the next 2 - 3 years worth of points charts with the total re balancing strategy last year? All of our complaining and conspiracy theories would be finished by now. All DVC is accomplishing now is upsetting people for no apparent reason.
 
I agree with Dean - make minor changes almost every year rather than trying to make a big change after too many years of letting things slide would be better. Given that DVC looks to be trying to make a big change to re balance, why didn't they simply publish the next 2 - 3 years worth of points charts with the total re balancing strategy last year? All of our complaining and conspiracy theories would be finished by now. All DVC is accomplishing now is upsetting people for no apparent reason.
To clarify my statement earlier, I think DVC should look at POSSIBLY making changes about every 4-5 years. They should then only make changes if utilization is off enough to justify the same and there's a trend to suggest it's not a short term problem. I also realize that there is considerable expense, work and aggravation in making adjustments and that there is no perfect system. Also, the requirement to even things out is quite a deterrent though I don't think the requirement is that it be to 3 decimal places like some wanted to put forth during the big discussions on this topic. There are other ways they could approach this to not give the impression the points would never change. They could put a prominent disclaimer on the website and in the Disney files magazine saying effectively they are looking at this issue ongoing and WILL make changes if they are necessary. It may be that this change will put things in balance enough that it's not worth changing again unless there is a drift over time, it also may be they'll need to make another change in a year or 2 since they were up against the 20% limit for some of the options. Regardless, it will take time for the changes to settle out and for members to declare their use patterns based on the changes.
 
IMHO i believe there will be a change to the 2011 points. I think that the 20% was too restrictive for the changes they wanted and it will take 2 or 3 years of changes to balance the points. That being said, it seems like they would have been aware of this last year and could have had the new charts out earlier. But, to talk out of both sides of my mouth.... we had planned on being Sunday to Thursday guest because of the high weekend points, with the changes we will now be going 6 nights or more.

I think they are waiting as long as possible to see how ressies have shifted with the 2010 charts. There are probably a few "hot spots" that they are focused on.

I had a professor who used to change his mind and policies quite often, when he was questioned about his lack of consistency, his response was, "It is good to be King". Now I feel like I am hearing it from the DVC.
 
IMHO
I had a professor who used to change his mind and policies quite often, when he was questioned about his lack of consistency, his response was, "It is good to be King". Now I feel like I am hearing it from the DVC.

I imagine His Royal Highness Jim Lewis has that plaque on his desk.
 
Waiting for the new changes for 2011 points chart. The more I wait the more I worry. If adventure season increased in points ie 1st 14 days of Dec. I never would have bought in the 1st place. I had no idea they could change to charts that much. We added at BLT last year now might have to sell it all. Spend way to much money monthly and see little benifits but a great deal of take aways. Sorry needed to vent here. Just saw and add for $ 750 gift card 5 night stay at premium resort. popcorn::
 
I have to agree with many of the previous posts. If the 2011 point allocation changes substantially, then I will have to rethink a future purchase. I bought a small contract this past year with the intention of buying at least 2 more in the next two years. I wanted to "get my feet wet" with a small contract first to learn all the details before spending a larger sum. If Disney decides to use the point seasons effectively to force DVC members into either buying more points or going at less popular times, then I will not purchase another contract. I fully understand making business decisions to maximize profit but I also understand cutting off your nose to spite your face. The latter is the result quite often when executives do not take a long term approach. :sad2:
 
If Disney decides to use the point seasons effectively to force DVC members into either buying more points or going at less popular times, then I will not purchase another contract.

I hope you realize that your statement above is EXACTLY the reason that we have the variable points charts (seasons) we have now. Rooms are SUPPOSED to be cheaper during the less-desirable seasons and more expensive during high demand periods.

As Brian stated a couple page ago, the entire basis behind DVC is 100% occupancy year-round (less DVC's 2% maintenance holdings.) And the charts should be regularly re-evaluated to try and achieve this goal.

In nearly 20 years I don't believe there has ever been a change in the seasons. IIRC, the '96 and 2010 reallocations were mostly to rebalance weekdays and weekends. I'm quite sure that the first two weeks of December were once among the lowest-attended periods of the year. But that's no longer true and the points really do need to be adjusted accordingly.

Our point values shouldn't be based upon 20-year old hotel occupancy data.

Also bear in mind that for every period where prices increase, there must be a corresponding decrease. If you think DVC would use a reallocation as a mechanism to increase sales, then I really think you are missing the point (no pun intended.) To oversimplify, if December 1-14 is moved from Adventure to Choice season, then some other two week period would have to be reduced in cost from Choice to Adventure season.

Yes, there will certainly be people who "lose" due to the changes, but there will be a similar number of owners who "win" from the reallocation. I think there will be a lot of owners very pleased if we see periods like May/late-August (currently Dream season) or late-February/late-April (really overpriced in Magic season) reduced in cost for 2011.
 
I hope you realize that your statement above is EXACTLY the reason that we have the variable points charts (seasons) we have now. Rooms are SUPPOSED to be cheaper during the less-desirable seasons and more expensive during high demand periods.

As Brian stated a couple page ago, the entire basis behind DVC is 100% occupancy year-round (less DVC's 2% maintenance holdings.) And the charts should be regularly re-evaluated to try and achieve this goal.

In nearly 20 years I don't believe there has ever been a change in the seasons. IIRC, the '96 and 2010 reallocations were mostly to rebalance weekdays and weekends. I'm quite sure that the first two weeks of December were once among the lowest-attended periods of the year. But that's no longer true and the points really do need to be adjusted accordingly.

Our point values shouldn't be based upon 20-year old hotel occupancy data.

Also bear in mind that for every period where prices increase, there must be a corresponding decrease. If you think DVC would use a reallocation as a mechanism to increase sales, then I really think you are missing the point (no pun intended.) To oversimplify, if December 1-14 is moved from Adventure to Choice season, then some other two week period would have to be reduced in cost from Choice to Adventure season.

Yes, there will certainly be people who "lose" due to the changes, but there will be a similar number of owners who "win" from the reallocation. I think there will be a lot of owners very pleased if we see periods like May/late-August (currently Dream season) or late-February/late-April (really overpriced in Magic season) reduced in cost for 2011.

Great points and as someone who has to travel mostly during the Magic season until I retire, seeing some adjustments are welcome for me. I am a teacher so can only go during school breaks and summer which leaves me paying a high point cost. Now, I bought in to DVC knowing this and am okay with it, but since the purpose is to have equal demand year round (or as close as possible to that), I would welcome some more changes.

Of course, I probably stand to benefit from any changes, even the weekday/weekend ones , so its easy for me to be less concerned. But, I also understood going in that the points and season could fluctuate.

My only issue is that of the delay and of the lack of communication between management and members. I would rather be told that an adjustment is going to happen and why months ahead of time, then have it sprung on me at last minute. I know they figure it gives those that are upset less time to complain before the chart is in effect, but that is what a good company does...stands by their decisions and prepares to take the heat.
 
Great points and as someone who has to travel mostly during the Magic season until I retire, seeing some adjustments are welcome for me. I am a teacher so can only go during school breaks and summer which leaves me paying a high point cost. Now, I bought in to DVC knowing this and am okay with it, but since the purpose is to have equal demand year round (or as close as possible to that), I would welcome some more changes.

Of course, I probably stand to benefit from any changes, even the weekday/weekend ones , so its easy for me to be less concerned. But, I also understood going in that the points and season could fluctuate.

My only issue is that of the delay and of the lack of communication between management and members. I would rather be told that an adjustment is going to happen and why months ahead of time, then have it sprung on me at last minute. I know they figure it gives those that are upset less time to complain before the chart is in effect, but that is what a good company does...stands by their decisions and prepares to take the heat.
Limited and delayed communication seems to be an ingrained timeshare thing. My guess is it's purposeful and falls along the line of "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" though I personally disagree with that approach to a degree. It is my opinion that one can give appropriate and timely communication (but not too much in advance) and everyone would be happier.
 
I agree with you Dean that the communication or better put the lack of communication is the frustrating part.

As far as point changes I think it needs to be viewed similar to the stock market... the goal is to come out ahead in the long term. There will be short term highs and lows, but it is important to realize that buying into DVC is a long term commitment/investment.

Let's say that someone bought 200 points and it would allow them to stay 1 week every year and then the points go up to 225 per week. Hopefully sometime in the future the points get re-adjusted to 175 or their travel plans change and they start going in a different season and it only take 165 points a week. Point being that it is really difficult, if not impossible, to plan or know how you are going to vacation over the next 30-50 years or how the charts will change. Hopefully in the long haul one makes out better than if they paid cash. Only time will tell.
 
Please take a bunch of points from August time period and put them towards December. Please please please!!!

The point I'm trying to make is not everyone goes in December and if December is as busy as August we'd like to see that even out a bit in regards to needed points.
 
IMO, many are looking for conspiracies where there are none whether it be the valet or the reallocation. I doubt DVC even considered the other factors beyond usage imbalances, costs and work of the reallocation.

I agree, I think that society has become overly skeptical of any statement made by corporations or government agencies. The lack of communication just fuels the fire that something fishy must be going on.
 
Limited and delayed communication seems to be an ingrained timeshare thing.
It's also a TWDC thing---the Company is not well known for providing unfettered access to information, across all of its businesses.
 
Yes, there will certainly be people who "lose" due to the changes, but there will be a similar number of owners who "win" from the reallocation. I think there will be a lot of owners very pleased if we see periods like May/late-August (currently Dream season) or late-February/late-April (really overpriced in Magic season) reduced in cost for 2011.
The one that I've always wondered about is late July and early August. The Deluxe and DVC properties are in Value Season on CRO's calendar then, and to have the DVC charts in Magic Season just seems odd, as the value proposition for Members is thin. For example, our upcoming late July stay would have required 352 points, but the rack rate for the same room is about $5200, including tax. If you value points at $10, that's a discount to the Member of only about 32%---very modest even in better economic times, and the 7-for-4 deal last summer offered an even bigger discount to cash guests. Granted, I don't expect 7-for-4 to last much longer (and we may have already seen the last of it) but still.
 
I agree with you Dean that the communication or better put the lack of communication is the frustrating part.

As far as point changes I think it needs to be viewed similar to the stock market... the goal is to come out ahead in the long term. There will be short term highs and lows, but it is important to realize that buying into DVC is a long term commitment/investment.

Let's say that someone bought 200 points and it would allow them to stay 1 week every year and then the points go up to 225 per week. Hopefully sometime in the future the points get re-adjusted to 175 or their travel plans change and they start going in a different season and it only take 165 points a week. Point being that it is really difficult, if not impossible, to plan or know how you are going to vacation over the next 30-50 years or how the charts will change. Hopefully in the long haul one makes out better than if they paid cash. Only time will tell.
Let me expand. There are similarities to the stock market if you set a total value and everything flows to that total. The problem with a given period of time is if it changes, it's unlikely to be up and down and the change is likely to be somewhat permanent. I do see why such companies including Disney do it this way. All you have to do is look at the valet parking, re-allocation and reservation system changes threads to see how members react irrationally, calling to complain over things that they should have know could happen. No reason to drag out such a change too much, you just expand the number and length of times for complaints. Still, I feel that Disney could minimize the damage by more timely and appropriate communications though I do feel that doing so too much in advance is not good from their standpoint. All they need to do is simply be more in control. They already have a section of the Disney Files mag that deals with more technical issues, why not use that to control and alert members. For example, a one a year reminder that states essentially they are looking at usage and if things are too far out of balance, they WILL rebalance them. Another that states a list of perks and a reminder they could change or be eliminated. Of course the first time they did this they'd get a lot of calls from those assuming it was going to happen but I think it'd be better in the long run. OTOH, members should understand the product they are putting their money into, if they truly did, those 3 thread's I referenced would have been very short. And lastly, there's really no way to please a subset of people. The "I knew it could happen but assumed it never would and I'm upset" crowd and the "I assumed it was Disney and didn't think I had to actually learn the actual risks" crowd will never be satisfied no matter what Disney does or does not do, say, prepare, etc.

It's also a TWDC thing---the Company is not well known for providing unfettered access to information, across all of its businesses.

I see a lot of this with other timeshares also and with both II and RCI. But Disney seems to be worse than most.
 

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