Eisner kills Toy Story 3 - Will Disney's stupid mistakes ever end?

[johare]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...102401oct24.story?coll=orl-business-headlines

Yep, here's the company that we all need to 'give a break' because they are hurting financially while they continue to make one stupid mistake after another.

 

[JeffJewell]

...this particular item archives, rather than reports, stupidity: this has been the state of TS3 for several months, even years.

Jeff

 

[YoHo]

This is nothing new, just two blowhards blowing hard. The Irony is that Disney is 100% right here. the contract says they don't count, so they don't count.

Personally I would question whether a 3rd installment is a wise move anyway.

 

[johare]

The Irony is that Disney is 100% right here. the contract says they don't count, so they don't count.

Disney may be 100% right legally, however they are also 100% stupid here.

Personally I would question whether a 3rd installment is a wise move anyway.

Maybe you're right...everyone would much rather see an Emperor's New Groove 2 or a Atlantis 2. Disney can build on their own successful titles rather than rely on a TS3. After all, they can always cut park hours some more if they need more cash.

 

[YoHo]

You missunderstand. I don't like sequels. I have a hard time imagining their is another story to tell here. I think Toy Story 3 is a panic move and RUSHING to make it and essentially paying the price of wasting a movie would be the Stupid move.

This is one instance where either way I really don't care right now. I say wait till the other movies are done and released and then worry about Pixar. They aren't going ANYWHERE for at least the next 5-6 years.

Let Pixar make other movies and see if they can make all of them hits.

I'd just as soon Disney would stop making all these sequels.

To put it simply, Not pushing for TS3 is the SMART MOVE IMHO.

 

[johare]

We'll see...I think Pixar will have more bargain power if Monsters is very successful and Eisner wants them to do a Monster's 2. A fair deal might be for a Monsters 2 AND a Toy Story 3 to count as a single movie towards the contract.

 

[Captain Crook]

But I think Disney NEEDS to keep Pixar in the loop at all costs and I can't see how Eisner's bickering with Jobs is going to do that...That said, it sounds like Jobs is a bigger egomaniac than Mike & equally self absorbed, which WILL cause tension between the two...Those things being said, none of us really know Eisner nor Jobs so we're just speculating as to the outcome, and in fact to their relationship. As Yoho points out, the critical date is still a ways down the road, heck Pixar could falter before then (stranger things have happened). But While I agree with your opinion on the intrinsic value of sequels, Yoho, I do think the probable outcome of such a feature (should they be able to corral the same cast) would be very big, indeed...Which is why I think it (and Monsters II - if successsful) needs to be made for Disney.

 

[Another Voice]

The relationship between Disney and Pixar has been dead for a while now. Equal parts arrogance, ego, and the decline of a once great company. It’s just hitting the press because of the upcoming release of ‘Monsters, Inc.’

‘Toy Story 3’ was being used as a bargaining issue about canceling the contract – the deal was that Pixar would have produced ‘TS3’ and ‘Finding Nemo’ and been released from the third film. Disney was actually looking at this idea until just about everything at Disney Animation exploded and imploded, and a rather large green gentleman proved to the world that animation without the “Disney” brand could make a pretty penny or two.

THAT was the key turning point in the whole story. What kept Pixar under Disney’s control was the feeling in Hollywood that only Disney had the marketing muscle to put out expensive animated films. Warner Bros, Fox, and others all tried and failed miserably (some with really good films too). After ‘Shrek’ and ‘Atlantis’, Disney couldn’t afford to be smug and everyone else saw an opening.

Eisner dropped that deal and is desperately clinging on to Pixar because Disney so desperately needs a hit. Pixar, in the mean time, has been courting a lot of other studios very publicly – studios that could throw a large check Michael’s way (has anyone seen George recently? Oh that’s right, he’s getting his trailer ready). There are also rumors that the deal could involve a certain ‘Toy Story’ animator/director/reason-for-Pixar’s-success doing another film. This film, by the way, would also be the third in a series and features all kinds of neat creatures (well, everyone except Jar Jar). An interesting little bit to throw into the deal.

Expect a lot of screaming and yelling in the press. But ‘Monsters’ and ‘Nemo’ are really looking like the end of the road. And before all the “AV, you’re an idiot” posts show up here, weren’t there a lot of posts on these boards that Disney DIDN’T need Pixar because it had the Secret Lab and ‘Atlantis’ was going to redefine animation as we knew it? And weren’t Michael and George soooo tight that the new ‘Star Tours’ film was just around the corner?

 

[Captain Crook]

AV, I don't think anyone here thinks you're an idiot, quite the contrary...And while I publicly disagree with a lot of your positions, well, that's my job isn't it?

As to those allegations, I don't really recall them but I know it wasn't me (this time) defending the status quo (maybe Peter said something )

But i have learned from you that nothing in Hollywood is static and just because a Disney / Pixar relationship is DEAD in the water now, doesn't mean it can't have life breathed back into it under certain circumstances, right?

 

[MickeyMoose15]

Toy Story 2 was a great idea but I agree with Disney because PIXAR wanting to do a Toy Story 3 is just greedy with them wanting more money and I support Disney's decision.

 

[Another Voice]

Sorry Captain, sir. Those comments weren’t directed at you. I always seem to get into trouble when I talk about Pixar, Lucas and Disney all within the same post. Some people REALLY want a new ‘Star Tours’ film and won’t let Hollywood reality get in the way of their dreams.

There are simply too many egos in the whole mess for the relationship to be put back together again. There might be enough lawyers in California to hold things together, but no one is betting on it. Eisner and Jobs despise each other since neither will admit to the other that they are the world’s second greatest business leader. Lassiter won’t work for Eisner because Lassiter is a smart man. Until either ‘Monsters’ or ‘Nemo’ prove themselves, Lassiter really is Pixar and that makes Steven play extra nice.

The saddest thing about the situation is that Disney can not win no matter what happens with ‘Monsters, Inc.’ If the film is a hit, the credit will go to Pixar and “show” that they can make films while Disney’s lost the touch (witness ‘Atlantis’ people will say). If ‘Monsters’ tanks, the blame will go to Disney’s marketing and its weakened brand. It’s not fair, but that’s Hollywood.


P.S. – Pixar has never wanted to make ‘Toy Story 3’, they have other movies they want to make. It’s all been Disney’s idea.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

A man, age 72 and a woman age 70 finally decide to get married. They are looking for a house to buy. The real estate agent shows them their dream house. They LOVE it!! But they turn it down. Why? Too far away from the grammar school!!

Captain. That's you!

… just because a Disney / Pixar relationship is DEAD in the water now, doesn't mean it can't have life breathed back into it under certain circumstances, right?

Oh my Captain!! You really are precious!! Please never change. Your eternal optimism is truly overwhelming. You never allow your glass to empty at all, never mind reaching the half way point!! It is in overflow mode at all times!!

AV. Again, thanks for the insight!!

 

[YoHo]

HEY, I think I might resemble AV's Remarks.

You Foul Hollywood spin doctor how dare you tempt me with the notion that certain director might step into George's shoes.
Now I can't decide who to root for. I'm a quivering puddle of confusion. Maybe I'll become a Star Trek Fan again. (The horrors)

Eh, Never mind, I'll just focus totally on Lord of the Rings for the next few months.

(Hey Landbaron I told My Fiancee that she wasn't allowed to se the movie until she read at least the Hobbit and Fellowship. She's making me read the first Harry potter book before we see that. Can't wait)


Oh, and his glass may never empty, but I suspect the good Captain is right nothing's ever set in stone in hollywood, BUT I wouldn't be surprised if it takes one of those Ego's getting fired to make it change.

 

[alice-d]

The reason why animated films are so profitable is because they are ageless and children are great repeat cutomers. Not only will children rewatch the same movie over and over. They fall in love and identify with the characters, so that a kids will watch the characters in sequels and animated series (like Alladin and Hercules on the Disney Channel). The more they see these characters in sequels and TV series the more kids want the action toys (so they can play being their heroes), and they want to go to the theme parks to see the characters in person. Disney has a failure like Atlantis and it just doesn't lose at the box office, it loses advetising in the TV show that is never produced and in the toys that are left on the shelves. (The Atlantis toys are knee deep in dust.) Toy Story 3 didn't have to be that big at the box office moderate success or even straight to video would do it gave Disney a chance to resale Toy Story toys. The Monster toys are already on the shelves, so are Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. I have to say that having had four brothers, ten nephews and a ten year old son that in all my years of toy shopping for boys the Lord of the Ring action figueres are the best I have ever seen (Harry Potter isn't bad either.)
I think Disney knows that the upcoming Christmas season is not just going to be bad because of the tourist trade, but that Disney is may lose at the box office (both HP and LOTR look to be smash hits) but also in the toy trade. This is one of the most competitive toy years, with X Box, Game Cube being two big ticket items eating up the diminishing number of cosumer dollars in a diminishing economy. I also have to wonder at Disney's decision on the theme park front to compete with itself. Disney theme parks in Japan and China make sense, but in Europe and South America? Hasn't Disney just discouraged the foriegn traveler from coming to its' US parks?

 

[YoHo]

LoTR toys are the best ever, because they have only one true cometitor and that is.............Star Wars toys. Trust me, those action figures weren't designed to be sold to children, they were designed to be sold to the likes of Landbaron and myself (well, I don't know that LB would be into it, but he's an unabashed fan of the books) They are designed for people that vacuum seal the entire package and hide them from the sun.

Come May we'll have a huge toy war.

 

[hopemax]

Hey Landbaron I told My Fiancee that she wasn't allowed to se the movie until she read at least the Hobbit and Fellowship

My husband wouldn't marry me until I read the Hobbit! In our first year together I think our biggest problems came as a result of me not reading the Hobbit. My birthday was in month 9...guess what I got...The Hobbit.

I have read the whole Ring Trilogy since then and am re-reading Fellowship now (just started it yesterday, in fact) so I am "prepared" for the period after my DH and FIL have seen the movie. Course the movie is coming out 2 days before my birthday, so I know what I'm doing to celebrate it

 

[DanG]

Several correctly state that the contract characterizes sequels as not counting. The contract also gives Pixar creative control and the ability to refuse to do sequels.

So Disney would be "right" under the contract only IF Pixar made and Disney released TS3. However, since Pixar already got screwed by Eisner with TS2 not counting against the contract, they will never make a TS3 under the existing contract. Instead, Disney will stumble and release a crappy rendition of TS to milk the franchise that will inevitably fail and end its successful run.

Disney also will reinforce for Pixar why they should go in a different direction for distribution once this contract is completed. It has become increasingly apparent that Pixar does not need Disney.

DanG

 

[Another Voice]

“Bad story, bad casting, bad marketing? Maybe. But quality and technically strong animation cells. Certainly!” - Wait a minute, who changed the subject to ‘Final Fantasy’???

I didn’t slam ‘Atlantis’ for anything technical. Hollywood perceives the film as a major box office flop (and they’re right). Besides – technical animation is the bodywork. The engine for an animated film, like ANY film, is the story. ‘Atlantis’ is all chromed out but has nothing under the hood.

There isn’t a single contract in town that can’t be purchased. Ms. Basinger just didn’t play the game the right way, neither did Ms. Goldberg and her dinosaur movie. But Mike Meyers, on the other hand, knows exactly what he’s doing with ‘Deiter’. Disney and Pixar will work out a deal when enough money changes hands (basically, Pixar will buy their freedom). In the meantime, Steve Jobs and Pixar don’t need Eisner anymore and they think they can cut much more lucrative deals elsewhere. Pixar will stay ONLY if Disney forks out a tremendous amount of money (a “bad conduct” premium for Eisner’s past actions).

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Dworks came up with Shrek without Pixar and Disney can do the same.

On what do you base this assumption? Dinosaur? The gutting of the animation (read: storytelling) division? Sure they can technically deliver a "Pixar"-like, computer generated, animation feature. But do they have the talent, internally, to create a good one?

 

[Another Voice]

No offense, but a gaggle of screeching lawyers won’t put a lot of love into Pixar’s heart when it comes to Disney. The whole relationship soured exactly because Lassiter, Jobs, et al feel that Disney is taking advantage of them and pushing Pixar around like the sweatshops that make Winnie the Pooh plush. Hollywood doesn’t work like corporate America; everything is still basically about personal relationships and carries all the baggage of egos & emotions that it implies. No one needs lawyers for a happy marriage – only for a divorce.

And Lord Baron is right – Disney’s attempt to “do it themselves” was ‘Dinosaur’. That particular chunk of iron not only killed itself, it took down Buena Vista Effects and started the whole mass extinction over at Feature Animation. Disney made it very clear before the release of ‘Dino’ that The Mouse had it in for Pixar. The nasty reason why Eisner got ‘Toy 2’ for free was that he told Pixar in no uncertain terms Disney would leave Pixar without a distributor and drive them into bankruptcy unless Buzz did EXACLTY what he was told. Not really very helpful when you want to build a long-term relationship.

Eighteen months later, and now it’s Disney that’s in the horrendous shape. No one is blaming Pixar for sticking right back at The Mouse. And notice that ‘Monster’ is going to hyping a trailer for a 20th Century Fox film instead of ‘Peter Pan 2’ – that’s just a little twist of the knife.

This mess is all on Eisner’s back. A once powerful and beneficial partnership has been destroyed by greed. Pixar will come out of this as a very strong motion picture producer with a strong brand and good distribution. Disney’s entire computer animation efforts right now is Eisner’s son playing with his iMac.