I Am Not Sure Walt Would Disapprove

[circus4u]

Two ticket books? The people I know who went during those days remember coming home at the end of the day with unused tickets that they saved up for next time.

I still have unused tickets and ticket book from the "good old" days too. It was a good, inexpensive place to take the family in those days. I have mentioned it before, but will say it again. Example, food (hamburgers) were cheaper at DisneyWorld than they were at the MacDill AFB BX snackbar! Was a great place to take the wife and four kids back then.

 

[whiporee]

Two ticket books? The people I know who went during those days remember coming home at the end of the day with unused tickets that they saved up for next time.

Lots of A&B tickets left over. Not so much Es.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

I like the facts you brought in to the conversation. And I agree with a lot of the points made in the thread.
I think society is transitioning to a micro transaction society, thanks to apps.
I also think that somewhere along the way people stopped seeing Disney vacations as a privilege and started seeing them as an entitlement. When I was a kid (I’m only 40) most of my friends hadn’t been to a Disney park. I was one of the few and my dad was a higher wage earner. Now we are seeing a trend where people think everyone is entitled to a lot more things that used to be luxury items, even if they can’t afford those items. Shelter, food, clothing, healthcare, transportation, heck even a smartphone with internet access is required to function in society today. Vacations, designer purses, Apple airpods, and PlayStation 5’s are not a basic human right that everyone should be able to afford, but a loud subset of the population say they are.

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

I like the facts you brought in to the conversation. And I agree with a lot of the points made in the thread.
I think society is transitioning to a micro transaction society, thanks to apps.
I also think that somewhere along the way people stopped seeing Disney vacations as a privilege and started seeing them as an entitlement. When I was a kid (I’m only 40) most of my friends hadn’t been to a Disney park. I was one of the few and my dad was a higher wage earner. Now we are seeing a trend where people think everyone is entitled to a lot more things that used to be luxury items, even if they can’t afford those items. Shelter, food, clothing, healthcare, transportation, heck even a smartphone with internet access is required to function in society today. Vacations, designer purses, Apple airpods, and PlayStation 5’s are not a basic human right that everyone should be able to afford, but a loud subset of the population say they are.

Game consoles and most Apple products have actually gotten cheaper when accounting for inflation so not sure that’s a good comparison.

 

[Sparkly]

I challenge people to visit any other vacation destination and not find upcharge opportunities for extra activities, special meals, add ons etc..

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

I challenge people to visit any other vacation destination and not find upcharge opportunities for extra activities, special meals, add ons etc..

If some other vacation destination that once had a free add on then started charging for it, I’m sure people visiting that destination would also be annoyed. If cruise lines decided the main dining room is an additional charge and only the buffet remains the included free dining option, I’m sure you’d see a lot of irate cruisers.

 

[Heather07438]

There does seem to be a lot of resent around price upcharges making WDW unaffordable. That’s totally understandable but many comments go next level like somehow they should be able to afford it every year like they used to otherwise Disney is wrong. It was OK to be unaffordable for other people until it became unaffordable to them.

 

[popy]

I would love to know what the cost of food in 1955 was. Not that I find Disney to be that outrageous compared to sporting events, etc. but interesting to see when the captive pricing became a norm.

well a hot dog cost .25 cents now $ 9.50 at caseys , with the inflation
of $10 now compared to 1 $ in 1955 would be about $2.50.

hamburger then .45 cents, around 5$ today, but Disney is way above that, now

also, interesting to see 15 tickets and admission for $4 in 1955 , that be about $45 today. Lot more today.

as they said you would need more tickets, the deal was once you used yours tickets they was gone, and i never remember a line.

I was there in 1955, walts idea was a have fun nice place to go, good eats, all at a reasonable price.

and that is exactly what is, but Disney today, whew, what a scam, and yes walts dream has been shamed.
said the spider to the fly, welcome to my palor , where there is no way out.
disneys concept to a captive attendance.
through you credit card. Said the spider.

 

[Liquidice]

There does seem to be a lot of resent around price upcharges making WDW unaffordable. That’s totally understandable but many comments go next level like somehow they should be able to afford it every year like they used to otherwise Disney is wrong. It was OK to be unaffordable for other people until it became unaffordable to them.

I definitely agree that some of the complaints come from being priced out of Disney - however, I will say that my feeling is more along the value for the money. It isn't about being priced out, but its about how many perks they've cut in addition to raising prices.

Need to cut a perk and as a result lower prices or keep them mostly the same to avoid inflation? Sure, I can understand that.

Need to raise the prices to maintain status quo because of inflation? Sure, I can understand that too.

Cutting perks left and right and also raising prices by over 20%? That isn't inflation / covering increased costs - that to me really seems like Disney thinks they can take advantage of customers and the "revenge travel" bubble - even if it comes at the cost of losing life long customers.

I'm assuming Disney probably figures if it backfires, they can go back and lower prices or add perks or both to get those customers back - and maybe they're right, which is why they're doing it.

But what if it backfires and those customers don't come back? If you alienate a bunch of your customer base and have them try out alternatives in the hopes of taking advantage of the bubble, what happens if that bubble bursts and the customers don't come back?

It seems like this could be a short sighted approach to increasing revenue and profits in the short term at the expense of long term stability.

It will be interesting to look back at this 10-20 years from now and see what happened.

 

[New Mouse]

I definitely agree that some of the complaints come from being priced out of Disney - however, I will say that my feeling is more along the value for the money. It isn't about being priced out, but its about how many perks they've cut in addition to raising prices.

Need to cut a perk and as a result lower prices or keep them mostly the same to avoid inflation? Sure, I can understand that.

Need to raise the prices to maintain status quo because of inflation? Sure, I can understand that too.

Cutting perks left and right and also raising prices by over 20%? That isn't inflation / covering increased costs - that to me really seems like Disney thinks they can take advantage of customers and the "revenge travel" bubble - even if it comes at the cost of losing life long customers.

I'm assuming Disney probably figures if it backfires, they can go back and lower prices or add perks or both to get those customers back - and maybe they're right, which is why they're doing it.

But what if it backfires and those customers don't come back? If you alienate a bunch of your customer base and have them try out alternatives in the hopes of taking advantage of the bubble, what happens if that bubble bursts and the customers don't come back?

It seems like this could be a short sighted approach to increasing revenue and profits in the short term at the expense of long term stability.

It will be interesting to look back at this 10-20 years from now and see what happened.

People also arent factoring in the millions they are saving on labor. This isnt inflation as Ive mentioned previously, but it is a good way to suck people into that story as cover!

 

[RamblingMad]

Disney has union employees. This tells me right off the bat that he had no trouble paying people low salaries.

The reality is that he had a public facing image and private facing image.

If you think of ticket prices in terms of inflation, then they make very little sense today even when comparing during the period that all of the gates were open to now. No idea why you're using percent of salary.

So what are you really arguing? That you're okay paying a lot of money for a Disney vacation?

 

[Illinois76]

Game consoles and most Apple products have actually gotten cheaper when accounting for inflation so not sure that’s a good comparison.

But the original poster is dead on.

Disney fans are the only fan base that feels entitled to the product in such an emotional way.

The reality is, for everything else, if it’s too much - you move on… Disney fans can’t.

 

[New Mouse]

But the original poster is dead on.

Disney fans are the only fan base that feels entitled to the product in such an emotional way.

The reality is, for everything else, if it’s too much - you move on… Disney fans can’t.

That emotion is more to them selling a narrative for decades about who and what Disney represents and now doing a 180 in a matter of months. This has been building for years slowly but surely, and now during the worst time possible for the general public, they have basically ripped that band aid off and shown their true colors about their values.

Most people will not come back.

 

[popy]

People also arent factoring in the millions they are saving on labor. This isnt inflation as Ive mentioned previously, but it is a good way to suck people into that story as cover!

Bottom line less people in the parks , less labor cost, so out you moderates go.

 

[RamblingMad]

I challenge people to visit any other vacation destination and not find upcharge opportunities for extra activities, special meals, add ons etc..

National Parks. Unless you're backpacking and need a permit, there are no upcharges.

 

[RamblingMad]

That emotion is more to them selling a narrative for decades about who and what Disney represents and now doing a 180 in a matter of months. This has been building for years slowly but surely, and now during the worst time possible for the general public, they have basically ripped that band aid off and shown their true colors about their values.

Most people will not come back.

We have population growth, so I'm not at all concerned about people not going back. I see Disney as an investment, rather than a vacation.

And Disney has been raising prices forever. What's different is that their customer service no longer looks superior to other options.

 

[Liquidice]

We have population growth, so I'm not at all concerned about people not going back. I see Disney as an investment, rather than a vacation.

And Disney has been raising prices forever. What's different is that their customer service no longer looks superior to other options.

The challenge becomes even though the population is growing, if that population has no interest in going to Disney because maybe their parents didn’t take them as kids or an equal but cheaper or similarly priced but superior product replaces it, then they could be in trouble. I agree with your sentiment that customer service is no longer superior, same with differentiated perks like included Fastpass.

You said you see Disney as an investment, what is your return on investment? Or are you saying you own a lot of DIS stock?

 

[RamblingMad]

The challenge becomes even though the population is growing, if that population has no interest in going to Disney because maybe their parents didn’t take them as kids or an equal but cheaper or similarly priced but superior product replaces it, then they could be in trouble. I agree with your sentiment that customer service is no longer superior, same with differentiated perks like included Fastpass.

You said you see Disney as an investment, what is your return on investment? Or are you saying you own a lot of DIS stock?

I own Disney stock. They have pricing power, so from an inflation perspective, I have zero concern with their ability to raise prices year after year after year.

The parks is only a portion of their business, and only so many people can fit into those parks. Right now, a lot of alternatives don't exist for grade school kids. They don't really have a lot of competition. Now, for teenagers, I can make the case that Universal is a better value preposition. But then they'd be old enough to handle the more challenging hikes in national parks too, which are definitely less expensive.

 

[KimMcGowan]

No idea why you're using percent of salary.

This is straight up easy math. What percentage of a yearly salary went to a Disney vacation in 1955 vs. what percentage today. Using the mean salaries provides a credible comparison point. While you could use other comparisons, I literally used this because it was easy math.

The parks is only a portion of their business

That is a bit misleading. From 2016-2021 the Parks Division accounted for 28.71% of all yearly revenue for the company, the largest single revenue stream. (In 2019 the Parks Division accounted for a whopping 37% of revenue, many believe the reason Chapek became Iger’s successor.). The pandemic has vastly changed these numbers. This year the entertainment division is predicted to be the earnings leader. All to say, even with Parks dropping it is a gigantic part of the company revenue stream.

 

[Illinois76]

That emotion is more to them selling a narrative for decades about who and what Disney represents and now doing a 180 in a matter of months. This has been building for years slowly but surely, and now during the worst time possible for the general public, they have basically ripped that band aid off and shown their true colors about their values.

Most people will not come back.

I think you’re wrong on the last sentence.

WDW is the most visited resort in the world… and shows little to no long term cracks on the top line.

I think lots of people globally are and will continue to go… and the ones who stop going because they miss the good old days don’t actually matter economically to the company anyway.