Jungle Cruise Update Coming

[maxiesmom]

Does it matter?

Yes. If the ride is racist, who is the victim that we must protect? Or can a ride be considered racist it there is no group being attacked?

My final thought is don't be too attached to any Disney ride or show. Because none are safe. Peter Pan, you may be next.

 

[yulilin3]

Yes. If the ride is racist, who is the victim that we must protect? Or can a ride be considered racist it there is no group being attacked?

My final thought is don't be too attached to any Disney ride or show. Because none are safe. Peter Pan, you may be next.

You should never be attached to anything at the parks, Walt Disney himself never wanted anything to stay stagnant and without change

 

[SaintsManiac]

Yes. If the ride is racist, who is the victim that we must protect? Or can a ride be considered racist it there is no group being attacked?

My final thought is don't be too attached to any Disney ride or show. Because none are safe. Peter Pan, you may be next.

It’s a theme park. It should adapt. And safe is an odd choice of word...

 

[umichigan10]

Yes. If the ride is racist, who is the victim that we must protect? Or can a ride be considered racist it there is no group being attacked?

My final thought is don't be too attached to any Disney ride or show. Because none are safe. Peter Pan, you may be next.

I don’t think they should totally ditch Peter Pan as a ride, but should make the native Americans much less of an awful caricature. That’s a pretty easy fix that should happen

 

[yorkieteacher]

The natives dancing has made me uncomfortable for years and I am an old white woman- But I also cringed at the way women who were endangered by the pirates were presented comically. Not a popular opinion but hey. I know they are both just rides, and I realize this was supposedly Africa many many years ago, but to me it's depicted in a way that seems to make fun of the natives. I laughed at Trader Sam, but I can see how he needs to be reworked too.

 

[rteetz]

Yes. If the ride is racist, who is the victim that we must protect? Or can a ride be considered racist it there is no group being attacked?

My final thought is don't be too attached to any Disney ride or show. Because none are safe. Peter Pan, you may be next.

It will be next. Disney has a lot of changes in the pipeline.

 

[BrianL]

What is racist about a jungle tribesman holding a shrunken head?

I'll bite. That in and of itself isn't racist - but the context around it is. When all of the jungel explorer "heroes" are white guys and they are presening all of th enatives as this "strange and wrong" thing - this "other" that is here for us to be amused by, that's where it becomes problematic. I don't think the intent was to be racist here, but I also don't have a problem with the desire to change it. I don't think they necessarily have to remove all natives from the ride, but they do need to present them in a batter context.

 

[GAN]

Has anyone ever had a POC as a skipper? Or is that out of story? Serious question. I've been going to WDW for way over 30 years and I can't recall ever having that experience ...as we discuss this.

Of course, Livingstone relied heavily on native support to aid his expeditions as guides in Africa

 

[mawuponastar]

As a non-white Disney fan, some of the posts on this thread has made me really sad. I wish there could be more empathy; there were many stereotypes and caricatures in the time period when Disney World and many of its first attractions opened that are now recognized as outdated and out of touch. I appreciate Disney at least trying to evolve and make its parks a welcome place for all.

Disheartening to see some of these attempts to be seen as “pandering” when it’s aimed to make WDW a more inclusive and fun place for all guests, and there’s no damage being done.

 

[SaintsManiac]

As a non-white Disney fan, some of the posts on this thread has made me really sad. I wish there could be more empathy; there were many stereotypes and caricatures in the time period when Disney World and many of its first attractions opened that are now recognized as outdated and out of touch. I appreciate Disney at least trying to evolve and make its parks a welcome place for all.

Disheartening to see some of these attempts to be seen as “pandering” when it’s aimed to make WDW a more inclusive and fun place for all guests, and there’s no damage being done.

100% agreed. And I say that as a white Disney fan, by the way. Lack of empathy is a big problem in our society.

 

[hertamaniac]

Projection mapping in the temple would do it wonders. I enjoy that portion of the ride but you could make it infinitely more exciting by doing that

I just wouldn't want to see anything like the motions of Kong or Fast and Furious. And I think it could be done cost effectively.

 

[BrianL]

Has anyone ever had a POC as a skipper? Or is that out of story? Serious question. I've been going to WDW for way over 30 years and I can't recall ever having that experience ...as we discuss this.

Of course, Livingstone relied heavily on native support to aid his expeditions as guides in Africa

I definitely have, many times - also many female skippers too.

 

[umichigan10]

I just wouldn't want to see anything like the motions of Kong or Fast and Furious. And I think it could be done cost effectively.

Yeah I just figured like some sort of effect of the roof crumbling or stuff crawling on it or something. Definitely a lot of possibilities

 

[afan]

Yeah I just figured like some sort of effect of the roof crumbling or stuff crawling on it or something. Definitely a lot of possibilities

I think it's also good to remember it's in the dark and some children are scared of the dark. I was on a ride where a little kid got quite scared, and I think started crying, and was sitting up front next to where the skipper stands. The skipper sat down with the kid and talk to them to try and help them get through it. It was a nice thing to see, but also showed that to me at least, the ride doesn't need to be more scary. I do think something in that section, whether it be projections or something, would help both with it possibly being less dark or at least more to look at. Now I don't know how the kid is on a dark ride, but to me they aren't the same thing as really that section you're just going through the dark, there's stuff to see but it's hard to see them and it's boring.

 

[GAN]

I definitely have, many times - also many female skippers too.

Sure plenty of female skippers. Guess I've just had bad timing in the 50 or so times I've been on it....

 

[MickeyWaffles]

Yes. If the ride is racist, who is the victim that we must protect? Or can a ride be considered racist it there is no group being attacked?

My final thought is don't be too attached to any Disney ride or show. Because none are safe. Peter Pan, you may be next.

I am a huge Jungle Cruise fan. The native depictions make me cringe, and I’m very happy they are updating it. From what Disney has said, I trust that they are preserving the spirit of the ride. I will be even happier to be a Jungle Cruise fan after they remove the problematic imagery. In the ride, the indigenous people of color are depicted as savages through the colonialist’s perspective. A ride as clever as Jungle Cruise deserves better than that.

I also LOVE Peter Pan’s Flight! One of my favorite rides. Absolutely no issue at all if they update the problematic scene there either.

And as a previous poster mentioned, you should never get too attached to anything at WDW. I like the original version of Test Track best. I like Wishes more than HEA. I miss Illuminations (the version from when I was kid, before Reflections of Earth.). I loved the Liberty Tree character meal. I could go on. Things change and we move on (and sometimes we love the changes, enhancements and additions!) But the great news is ... Jungle Cruise will still exist, and be better for it. Same for when they update PPF.

I am nostalgic about many things at WDW. But I am certainly not nostalgic for racist imagery and depictions. Happy for that stuff to get the boot.

 

[yulilin3]

Sure plenty of female skippers. Guess I've just had bad timing in the 50 or so times I've been on it....

Before 1995 there were no female skippers at JC in DL

 

[Catvondita]

I'm here for this! Honestly I thought it was going to be some big movie tie in so I'm glad that they are changing the natives aspect. is there a way to keep trader Sam while making him less of an offensive caricature? Maybe he can be an ex skipper who was stranded on the island and kind of became one with the island? Sort of like a Robin Willams in Jumanji or Tom Hanks in Cast Away? Idk.

To add to the larger discussion I think change is good. If we can change the messed up parts while trying to keep the integrity of the ride as much as possible I don't see any issue. Society changes and we shouldn't keep everything the same once we realize how effed up something is. Didn't Walt himself say Disney isn't a museum?

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Does it matter?

Yes. If the ride is racist, who is the victim that we must protect? Or can a ride be considered racist it there is no group being attacked?

People are glossing over this statement and saying it doesn't matter, but it really does. As a business we deal with change management all the time. One of the first things we have to do in change management is to know what the goal is. If you can not identify WHO is offended, then you can not say with any certainty or authority that the change you have made is a positive one. A general statement saying "no one should be offended by any ride" with any other identifying characteristics would lead to a park that is basically just open grass fields. Give me a Disney ride - any ride - and I can give you an opportunity for it to be offensive to someone.

You need to be able to identify with some clarity
Who is offended?
Why is the material considered offensive?
What can we do to reduce the chance people will be offended?

Further, and most important:
How does the change address the issue?
Is the issue fully addressed?
What other new problems are we introducing (are we offending a new group by the introduced material?)

So, yes.... Who is offended matters very, very much if we are serious about addressing the issue and not just changing things for the sake of saying "we changed it".

 

[BrianL]

People are glossing over this statement and saying it doesn't matter, but it really does. As a business we deal with change management all the time. One of the first things we have to do in change management is to know what the goal is. If you can not identify WHO is offended, then you can not say with any certainty or authority that the change you have made is a positive one. A general statement saying "no one should be offended by any ride" with any other identifying characteristics would lead to a park that is basically just open grass fields. Give me a Disney ride - any ride - and I can give you an opportunity for it to be offensive to someone.

You need to be able to identify with some clarity
Who is offended?
Why is the material considered offensive?
What can we do to reduce the chance people will be offended?

Further, and most important:
How does the change address the issue?
Is the issue fully addressed?
What other new problems are we introducing (are we offending a new group by the introduced material?)

So, yes.... Who is offended matters very, very much if we are serious about addressing the issue and not just changing things for the sake of saying "we changed it".

I think the thing is, offensive or not - however you find it, that kind of stuff is a bit out of touch. That style of adventure story isn't relevant to today's audiences. I was looking forward to the Jungle Cruise movie because it keeps the themes and the setting, but reworks them in a more contemporay action/comedy style. That's not really a bad thing. So, even if they don't necessarily need to change to avoid being offensive, I still welcome the attraction actually getting some love and attention.