Kids on shoulders comments

[UrsulasShadow]

It's very difficult to put *yourself* in others shoes though - right?!? We ask our children to do it all the time, but adults?!? Deep and thoughtful consideration of your fellow man is truly life kill, and one that all adults would do well excercising frequently and often.

I'm not exactly certain what "life kill" is...doesn't really sound like something that anyone should exercise frequently or often...
But my point is, it's really hard to put yourself in everyone else's shoes, when there's 10,000 of them that want exactly what you do, exactly when you do. So you prioritize...
Is it your opinion that since one is put in a position that may possibly inconvenience others, that one should not even attempt to experience what the others are there to experience? Should Kevin have moved, because his height disturbed the "gentleman" behind him? In a perfect world, a dance would have been executed, in which Kevin would have stood in the back, with both of the men's children on HIS shoulders, and the gents could have stood in front of Kevin! That would have been deep and thoughtful consideration, no?

 

[Soccermom-Cheri]

Pretty soon my teenage son will be able to put me on his shoulders and I'll finally get to see a parade. and I promise to stand near the back.

 

[burberryplaid]

eta: the more I think about this, the more I think that I think most people that do this may not even know that they are doing something wrong. People who are not WDW fanatics may not know that they need to stake out a parade spot hours in advance. Just like people who are not WDW fanatics may not know to make ADRs 6 mo in advance. So let's just say joe blow, who is on his first trip to wdw, just happens upon the parade. He lifts suzie up on his shoulders so she can see better, thinking how much she is going to love this. He does not realize that the people around him have waited for 2 hours to see this. All he knows is that he happened upon something he wants his dd to see. I think this is the most common reason that you see people lifting kids up on their shoulders- not because they are trying to 'pull one over' on the people who have waited two hours, and get the advantage of both riding rides and seeing the parade. Rather, they just innocently want their kids to be able to see. They are swept up in the moment and the beauty they are seeing, and the don't think about what they are doing.

Think about the first time you got onto main street and saw cinderella's castle- its beauty may have stopped you in your tracks. Were you purposely being rude to the people right behind you by stopping short? No, you just got caught up in the magic of WDW and forgot those around you for a minute. I think that is why the majority of parents put their kids up on their shoulders- in innocence. And I would bet that in most cases, if you politely told them they were blocking a view you waited two hours to see, most people would apologize and take their kids down.

As George constanza would say 'we're living in a society here!'

I think you're giving people too much credit. While certainly, there are probably people who don't realize they are taking away from the experience of others, I'd say a vast majority don't care because it's all about them.

It's discussions like this that remind me why I like Fantasmic so much more than any of the events at MK.

 

[Southrnbelle]

While I like the idea of a kids area near the front, I have to relay the experience we had this summer. My daughter had looked forward to the High School Musical thing at MGM for weeks. When we got there to see it she was so excited. She is a tiny 12 year old. I went with her to the front of rope and found a good spot. When the show started I left and went to the side. I felt the other children were having problems seeing around me. About midway through the show she comes over almost in tears. A person with a stroller and a bunch of kids came up from behind, pushed her on the ground and then out of the way and told her to leave - they wanted to see. I do wish I had stayed at her side instead of being so considerate, but was simply apalled at the level of rudeness I do see from some folks. Don't they realize that to understand the magic of Disney, you have to have a little goodness inside you! Unfortunately one parent like this would ruin a kids area idea.
Sorry for the long rant, but I sure understand what Kevin is saying!

Denise

 

[Vijoge]

While I like the idea of a kids area near the front, I have to relay the experience we had this summer. My daughter had looked forward to the High School Musical thing at MGM for weeks. When we got there to see it she was so excited. She is a tiny 12 year old. I went with her to the front of rope and found a good spot. When the show started I left and went to the side. I felt the other children were having problems seeing around me. About midway through the show she comes over almost in tears. A person with a stroller and a bunch of kids came up from behind, pushed her on the ground and then out of the way and told her to leave - they wanted to see. I do wish I had stayed at her side instead of being so considerate, but was simply apalled at the level of rudeness I do see from some folks. Don't they realize that to understand the magic of Disney, you have to have a little goodness inside you! Unfortunately one parent like this would ruin a kids area idea.
Sorry for the long rant, but I sure understand what Kevin is saying!

Denise

I have no trouble believing that! I use an ECV and we were at AK. I had never seen the AK parade ( I forget what it's called) and had staked out a spot right at the rope. As you can imagine, the view of most things from the seat of an ECV is less than stellar. So here I am, in my good spot. And I waited for the parade. Just as the front of the parade comes into view a woman pushed through the crowd with a toddler in a stroller, handing the kid off to another woman near, but not at, the front by the rope. Next thing, the kid is pushed up to the front. Then the whole family follows. About 6 people. By now they've wedged themselves almost in front of my ECV and the rope. It started to drizzle. Out comes the umbrellas (so the kid doesn't melt) and now I can't see a darn thing. And they had the gall to look at me like I was in their way!

 

[lilyv]

While I like the idea of a kids area near the front, I have to relay the experience we had this summer. My daughter had looked forward to the High School Musical thing at MGM for weeks. When we got there to see it she was so excited. She is a tiny 12 year old. I went with her to the front of rope and found a good spot. When the show started I left and went to the side. I felt the other children were having problems seeing around me. About midway through the show she comes over almost in tears. A person with a stroller and a bunch of kids came up from behind, pushed her on the ground and then out of the way and told her to leave - they wanted to see. I do wish I had stayed at her side instead of being so considerate, but was simply apalled at the level of rudeness I do see from some folks. Don't they realize that to understand the magic of Disney, you have to have a little goodness inside you! Unfortunately one parent like this would ruin a kids area idea.
Sorry for the long rant, but I sure understand what Kevin is saying!

Denise

I'm so sorry that happened to your daughter. Don't know if this will help, but I've found (as a vertically challenged adult ) that if I find a spot near a tree or even (yikes) a trash can, I can stand back a little and see. I'm always happy for parents that are standing nearby to allow their kids in the very front. Maybe next trip you can try that, it might hopefully allow you to stay near your daughter, while she's in front of you watching. It is kind of sad that you almost need to have an object on one side of you to allow you to sort of stay put, isn't it?
Here's hoping your next visit will include a happy parade experience!

 

[alysnwndrlnd]

I only have two things to add to the conversation that havent already been said a few times over:

1. Sometimes the best seat in the house isnt right in front of the "players". DH, DS and I stumbled onto some awesome seats to watch both the Transformer show and the High School Musical II show at MGM..i mean Disney Studios (lol), before 11:30 you can find them easily too. Just walk to the right and up to the platform in front of the Studio Catering & Grill, the tables at the edge of the platform, closest to the Streets of America, provides elevated seats, under an awning with a nice breeze. It was a few yards away from the "front seats" but it was still a great view.

2. As this is getting to be a problem, and can only get worse for Disney, some of this sidewalk congestion can be relieved at the parades if Disney would only extend the parade route another block or so. At MK, instead of going around Walt and Mickey counterclockwise and out to Liberty Square, they could go up and around counterclockwise and up out between Tomorrowland and Toontown then up past the Carousel, through Fantasyland, back around the inside side of Liberty Square (not through the low archway), and back onto the existing parade route. Longer parade route = less crowded sidewalks.????

 

[Kaler131]

We had something like that happen to us in Sept. at MK. We waited....and waited....and waited for the (delayed for rain) fireworks at MNSSHP. It was my sister, my DS4, and me. Just after they FINALLY started, a man came up and stood right in front of us with an infant (not even old enough to enjoy the fireworks (maybe about 3 weeks old....and asleep). We let it slide until his wife came up a few minutes later and opened her HUGE golf umbrella and stuck it right in front of out faces! Well, my sister is the WRONG person to do that to, so needless to say my sister told her to close her umbrella and/or get out of the way! Of course, she did!

 

[Shasta]

While I like the idea of a kids area near the front, I have to relay the experience we had this summer. My daughter had looked forward to the High School Musical thing at MGM for weeks. When we got there to see it she was so excited. She is a tiny 12 year old. I went with her to the front of rope and found a good spot. When the show started I left and went to the side. I felt the other children were having problems seeing around me. About midway through the show she comes over almost in tears. A person with a stroller and a bunch of kids came up from behind, pushed her on the ground and then out of the way and told her to leave - they wanted to see. I do wish I had stayed at her side instead of being so considerate, but was simply apalled at the level of rudeness I do see from some folks. Don't they realize that to understand the magic of Disney, you have to have a little goodness inside you! Unfortunately one parent like this would ruin a kids area idea.
Sorry for the long rant, but I sure understand what Kevin is saying!

Denise

I'm sorry, I am finding it impossible to not make a comment.

First, what your daughter experienced was terrible. I'd go balistic if I were you and you have every right to be very upset. I'd have had words with that person and then found the next CM and made sure they were dealt with. My next comments need to be seperate from how your daughter was mistrated.

With that said, what does that story have to do with this discussion? I am not taking anything away from your story other than to say that is dosen't pertain to this issue. We all acknowledge that Disney has it's share of rude visitors.

That is the same as someone posting that they side with Kevin because on their last trip, some very rude people stomped on their feet or spit gum in thier hair! Those things would have nothing to do with why parents put children on thier shoulders. Kevin had a very rude person put his child on his shoulders and made a rude comment knowing that he was blocking Kevin's view. That man was wrong and most definitly rude. I disagree with Kevin because since he was upset, he made a blanket statement that all parents who put thier children on thier shoulders are being selfish and I don't believe that to be true. I'd say that most parents are only attempting to allow thier children to see more than the person's back in front of them. Again, since the areas where a small person can see are limited to less than 10% of the parade route's total or shows attendance (guessing at 10% but I don't think it is far off), what is a parent to do. If you say arrive early, that only means that you are taking someone elses place and they are now in the boat you were in. in short, you still have people who can't see. Proper planning won't create more spaces around the parade route or show. If next week, everyone planned ahead and came three hours early, what would you have? The same amount of people who can't see. No advice will solve the fact that many parents are stuck with this problem.

I re-listened to the podcast tonight and Pete seems to mimic my view exactly. I'd love to hear him make a comment because the comments that he made on the podcast are exactly the points I'm attempting (rather poorly aparently) to make.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I do believe that if you wander into a show and put your kids on your shoudlers minutes before the show then you are being selfish and less than concerned about the people around you. I was taught that isnt a good thing.

By doing this you have decided that you and your child seeing the show is more important than anyone behind you regardless of how long they have been standing there.

I also believe there are ways to do this and be unobtrusive and if seeing this show / parade/ event is important to you....then make arrangements for that.

As I always tell people, I travel with someone in a wheelchair and if viewing the event is important, we have found a seat hours in advance, It's what needs to be done.

John and I are both 6'5".....I sure hope people are understanding when we stand in front of them next time.

 

[Shasta]

I'm sorry that I messed up these quotes. I hope you can understand them.

I do believe that if you wander into a show and put your kids on your shoudlers minutes before the show then you are being selfish and less than concerned about the people around you. I was taught that isnt a good thing.

What about is you walk in 30 minutes early or 1 hour or more early and those front areas are taken, is that selfish? If you are now only talking about late arrivals in the last few minutes, we are on the same side. Maybe we don't disagree after all.

By doing this you have decided that you and your child seeing the show is more important than anyone behind you regardless of how long they have been standing there.

Again, if you mean people walking in minutes before a show starts, I agree with you. I was never speaking of arriving minutes prior to a show/parade starting because this wasn't part of the podcast comments. (the ones I started this thread about)

I also believe there are ways to do this and be unobtrusive and if seeing this show / parade/ event is important to you....then make arrangements for that.

I'd like your advice on this one. Again, as I stated, if everyone planned perfectly, you still can only fit a small % of people in the limited areas where a small person can see. If you fit in, someone else dosen't. There will always be people who can't fit in due to the limited spaces for a small person (and you are correct, that goes for wheel chairs, verticaly challenged people and children) can fit in. Unless you see a person walk up in front of you, how do you know that the people five feet in front of you weren't there before you but didn't get lucky enough to get the front line in viewing.

As I always tell people, I travel with someone in a wheelchair and if viewing the event is important, we have found a seat hours in advance, It's what needs to be done.

Other than my above comments that adress this issue, I will add that maybe (and I stress maybe) the reason why you are more likely to find that seating is that you are a Orlando resident, an annual pass holder and probobly one of the most educated Disney visitors around. A normal visitor can 't compete and shouldn't be expected to.

John and I are both 6'5".....I sure hope people are understanding when we stand in front of them next time

Of course I wouldn't blame you. What choice do you have. That is my piont, what choice do these parents have other than choosing to vacate the event? You're making my piont for me.

 

[Linus Van Pelt]

I'd like your advice on this one. Again, as I stated, if everyone planned perfectly, you still can only fit a small % of people in the limited areas where a small person can see. If you fit in, someone else dosen't. There will always be people who can't fit in due to the limited spaces for a small person (and you are correct, that goes for wheel chairs, verticaly challenged people and children) can fit in. Unless you see a person walk up in front of you, how do you know that the people five feet in front of you weren't there before you but didn't get lucky enough to get the front line in viewing.

Maybe it's just me being obtuse (I wouldn't necessarily rule that out ), but why is it such an issue for you to move to the back or off to the side of the crowd and then prop your daughter up on your shoulders at that point? Yes, she would be a tad farther away from the "action", but, to my thinking, anyway, she'd still be able to have a fairly unobstructed view of the parade. Your view, on the other hand, would likely be rather obstructed, but the salient issue is that your daughter have a decent view of the parades, not you. Am I right?

 

[jpeka65844]

This is exactly why DH and I skip parades. DS 2 is WAY too young to wait around. We'll wait until he's older to see them...

We've seen one parade: Spectromagic in '05 before DS arrived. We were so incredibly beat and were happy to sit on the curb for an hour, eat popcorn, drink a coke. and people watch, waiting for it to start. I witnessed no rude behavior, although it did get crowded around us.

DH and I are going sans DS in Dec and will hopefully catch the MVMCP parade.

But don't EVEN get me started on people asking me to move at the movie theater when I've been there for 30 minutes and they're walking in during the trailer!

 

[Linus Van Pelt]

But don't EVEN get me started on people asking me to move at the movie theater when I've been there for 30 minutes and they're walking in during the trailer!

Or ten minutes into the actual movie!

 

[Shasta]

Maybe it's just me being obtuse (I wouldn't necessarily rule that out ), but why is it such an issue for you to move to the back or off to the side of the crowd and then prop your daughter up on your shoulders at that point? Yes, she would be a tad farther away from the "action", but, to my thinking, anyway, she'd still be able to have a fairly unobstructed view of the parade. Your view, on the other hand, would likely be rather obstructed, but the salient issue is that your daughter have a decent view of the parades, not you. Am I right?

Yes you are right. Ther should be nothing wrong with that. Where did you get that I'm arguing a point for myself. I have never had and will never have my daughter on my shoulders. I'm speaking for those parents that I felt Kevin spoke of, (I feel) unfairly. I don't see a problem with being at the outer edges. Apparently Keving does. I'm speaking to Kevin's blanket statement that everyone who has thier children on their shoulders is being rude. I didn't hear any flexabiility to his opinion in the podcast and that is what I'm refereing to. I also have heard little flexiblity in other people's opinions in this thread. I'd welcome some solutions people would have for the small percentage of viewing area for shorter viewers. Planning isn't an isse since all that does is trade your spot for another and put someone else in the position of not being able to see.

 

[bfrosty]

Okay, 4 pages on "Standing in front of someone" Come on people(s).

Seriously? While were on the topic of ridiculously ideas/opinions.

What is next? Tell slow, overweight people they should walk to the right, so us skinny people can pass on the left?

...or excuse me sir/lady...but could you face the other way, because the smoke from your cigarette is blowing into my non-smoking zone?

...What about cubs fans that thought they had a chance this year, forced to watch other park visitors who wore Boston Red Sox World Series Champs tshirts? Should they not wear their tshirts and ballcaps?

Have a good one.
bfrosty

 

[Shasta]

...What about cubs fans that thought they had a chance this year, forced to watch other park visitors who wore Boston Red Sox World Series Champs tshirts? Should they not wear their tshirts and ballcaps?

From the looks of this thread, Iguess not.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I thought I was being fairly clear...but I guess not.

"When I go to the movies or theater, I try to sit in the back row or change seats with someone sitting behind me. I have even taken theater seats that werent as good as what I originally paid for so that others can see. When I am at Disney, I try to find a place to stand near the edge or I stand behind folks that might not be able to see over me. In other words...I really try to be polite so that everyone gets to see, especially kids."

"I would truly hope that everyone be considerate to those around them regardless of the situation."

"I also believe there are ways to do this and be unobtrusive."

I believe that putting your child on your shoulders can be done without ruining the view of everyone behind you.

I certainly hope that this explains what I was trying to say. I'm not sure I can explain it any clearer than that. If you disagree....I accept that.

Kevin

 

[UrsulasShadow]

Again, I agree with some of the points Shasta is trying to make here. It is NOT black and white, which is what she perceived Kevin's statements about children on shoulders to be. I don't see a big difference of opinions...just differences in presentation. What Kevin experienced, both by the person in front of him and the person in back of him, I think we all agree was inconsiderate and in poor taste. But to say that all people who put children on their shoulders in order to get a view are automatically selfish, inconsiderate people is seeing things from one viewpoint...his own...and that in and of itself can be seen as selfish. Obviously, the person behind Kevin had yet ANOTHER point of view, which could occupy another thread on these boards.

Oh, by the way, my days of child-shouldering are pretty much past now, so I have no ulterior motive in holding a more sympathetic view. I always tried to be considerate with my children when they were small, and they have grown to be very considerate young adults,so I think I did my job well.

 

[willis37862]

...or excuse me sir/lady...but could you face the other way, because the smoke from your cigarette is blowing into my non-smoking zone?


Have a good one.
bfrosty

Actually that is pretty rude and I probably would tell you to quit blowing your nasty cigarette smoke in my face but what does this have to do with the topic we were discussing.