Land Border Opening?

[Gigi22]

It’s amazing what it does for the sanity. And it’s kind of funny seeing posts and having no idea why people are talking about certain things lol.

I know what you mean! I too enjoy the Ignore function!

 

[pigletto]

I’ve got so many people on ignore since this pandemic started it’s like I have the boards to myself some days .
I’m kidding . Sort of .

 

[ellbell]

Oh, I am well aware that Canada's roll out of the vaccine has been woefully slow, and continues to lag behind most developed countries. My heart has been heavy with worry for my family members in Ontario. My son's fiance is a teacher and only just received her first shot this past week, with her second scheduled for August 30th. August!!!

I am not, nor have I ever, advocated for fully open borders at the very beginning. But taking fear out of the equation and looking at actual statistical and scientific data, including those conducted by the CDC, there is little justification to restrict a fully vaccinated citizen (who hails from an area with lower transmission and death rates) from entering Canada at this point, as long as that person is willing to accept the risk posed by unvaccinated Canadians.

This isn't directed at you, Jacqueline, but I saw the remark from another poster above, and I'm not sure why an opposing viewpoint has to be taken as "political". There are no "politics" in my statements.....I have made no comments on the current administration in either country, or how that is factored into this whole mess. I like to look at the science because that has no "party". If someone can give me statistical data to support their claims of imminent danger by a vaccinated individual, I'm all ears. The use of the ignore button is fine.....it honestly doesn't hurt my feelings.....because I'm not looking to secure "likes". I appreciate a thoughtful discussion and debate, especially on a topic that is so relevant to us all.

I think the issue is that we can't even leave our homes in Ontario yet. Our provincial borders are closed. Travel is limited in our own country with quarantines happening if you travel to the maritimes. We can't think about opening our international borders until our country is open to the people who already live here. If it isn't safe for us to have our stores open for the locals to shop we can't invite guests in.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

I think the issue is that we can't even leave our homes in Ontario yet. Our provincial borders are closed. Travel is limited in our own country with quarantines happening if you travel to the maritimes. We can't think about opening our international borders until our country is open to the people who already live here. If it isn't safe for us to have our stores open for the locals to shop we can't invite guests in.

Yes, I am aware of that. I wasn't suggesting they open the borders tomorrow. The Ontario lockdown is currently set to end June 2nd (hopefully it does....yes, I know it may be extended again). It sure would be nice if the powers that be used this time to be proactive and make a plan. Citizens can't be told indefinitely to "hold on a little longer" if there's nothing for them to work toward.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yes, I am aware of that. I wasn't suggesting they open the borders tomorrow. The Ontario lockdown is currently set to end June 2nd (hopefully it does....yes, I know it may be extended again). It sure would be nice if the powers that be used this time to be proactive and make a plan. Citizens can't be told indefinitely to "hold on a little longer" if there's nothing for them to work toward.

There is a goal. 75% with one dose and 20% fully vaccinated.

 

[ellbell]

Yes, I am aware of that. I wasn't suggesting they open the borders tomorrow. The Ontario lockdown is currently set to end June 2nd (hopefully it does....yes, I know it may be extended again). It sure would be nice if the powers that be used this time to be proactive and make a plan. Citizens can't be told indefinitely to "hold on a little longer" if there's nothing for them to work toward.

It isn't just Ontario to consider though. Our whole country has travel restrictions. In BC you can't travel out of your own specific health unit area. In the Maratimes if you enter any of those provinces even from a neighboring province you need to quarantine for 2 weeks and just because our stay at home orders in Ontario ends doesn't mean Doug Ford is going to open up our neighboring borders he is pushing for more travel bans. Even if our stay at home orders end on June 2nd (which is unlikely) it doesn't mean our restaurants and stores and other non essential businesses open. I don't think the land border will be opening soon. I see July possibly even August at the earliest.

 

[TammyLynn33]

I’ve got so many people on ignore since this pandemic started it’s like I have the boards to myself some days .
I’m kidding . Sort of .

Test Test... come in ? You there ? Making sure it’s not me.. lol
It’s all about the tone

my ex is the same way how it inconveniences him to come into Canada ( he was last here in Sept) and quarantine and ive guaranteed him the lockdowns have inconveniences me and the rest of Canadians more but we get it.. we don’t like it but we get it..

 

[TammyLynn33]

Yes, I know the whole country currently has travel restrictions. I specifically referenced Ontario because that's the province that was initially mentioned by the poster who I was replying to.

I'm going to bow out of this discussion (again) because its no longer a discussion. Canada will open the borders when they open the borders, but I personally think (based on the rising number of media reports of outside pressure) that it may be sooner than many people here seem to think. Of course, I might be wrong.....and I'm sure, considering the number of posters who found the need to announce their childish delight in flexing their muscles by hitting the ignore button, that lots of people will be happy to come back and rub my nose in that prediction if I'm indeed incorrect....which is completely fine, I have broad shoulders lol.

I think that pressure from countries outside of Canada.....and not just the USA, either......will become very prevalent in the coming days. And I think that global pressure will be tough for the current administration to ignore. Again, time will tell.

If anyone can find the data to support the statistical likelihood of a vaccinated individual catching and spreading the virus contrary to the CDC findings, they are welcome to PM me. As a seeker of knowledge, I would love to review it.

i don’t see pressure coming from Canadian politicians to open , at this point the pressure seems one sided .

on the CDC website as of May 1, 2021 they are no longer collecting data on fully vaccinated people getting Covid unless it requires hospitalization or tragically results in death. ( Nor has the US been contact tracing so the spread will never be known )
So data at least from a CDC standpoint on what you are asking will not be available.
IMO not tracking this data is very misleading when it comes to providing truth re vaccine efficacy and possible spread .

 

[HappilyEverAfter80]

The World Health Organization is encouraging not to vaccinate the 11 and under group :

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ots-instead-of-vaccinating-children-1.5428056
I'm all for helping out other countries, as this pandemic won't be over as long as variants pop up all over the globe. Really hope the "vaccine passport" won't be required for children tho.

This says children and adolescents not just 11 and up?...interesting. WHO is basically saying kids are at very low risk from covid complications and instead of vaccinating them send the vaccines to poorer countries that need the doses for their at risk adult population if I’m understanding this correctly?

I’ve got so many people on ignore since this pandemic started it’s like I have the boards to myself some days .
I’m kidding . Sort of .

Ok so I must be in lala land on my own because...what? there is an ignore button here? What? Haha.
I am not ignoring anyone (yet lol) but I have to say overall during the pandemic there are a lot of people that I view in a different light now like those neighbours behind me throwing a get together with their friends right now even during stay at home order... while openly bashing non-mask wearers on FB or posting reminders to only have Easter with people in your own household. Oh the hypocrites. Lol
Or the ones spewing the consiparcy theory nonsense everywhere. At no other time did I feel the division of people and see others’ true colours come out as during the pandemic...

 

[Gigi22]

This says children and adolescents not just 11 and up?...interesting. WHO is basically saying kids are at very low risk from covid complications and instead of vaccinating them send the vaccines to poorer countries that need the doses for their at risk adult population if I’m understanding this correctly?

Ok so I must be in lala land on my own because...what? there is an ignore button here? What? Haha.
I am not ignoring anyone (yet lol) but I have to say overall during the pandemic there are a lot of people that I view in a different light now like those neighbours behind me throwing a get together with their friends right now even during stay at home order... while openly bashing non-mask wearers on FB or posting reminders to only have Easter with people in your own household. Oh the hypocrites. Lol
Or the ones spewing the consiparcy theory nonsense everywhere. At no other time did I feel the division of people and see others’ true colours come out as during the pandemic...

 

[Gigi22]

Yeah. Kind of sad isn’t it? And then just think of all the disagreements you can have even with your nearest and dearest while you try to figure out what you are allowed to do under the most recent version of your province’s rules. This too will pass.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

Every time DH comes in with some “info” on why masks don’t work or why the vaccines could be trouble down there road, I run to the bathroom and lock the door lol I may be stuck listening to him but he can’t see all of the eyeball rolls I am giving him!

 

[samsteele]

Just catching up with this thread and clear people are entrenched in their positions. The one thing we can all agree with is we want the pandemic over and our lives returned to normal. But I have concerns we aren't out of the woods yet.

Think I mentioned some months ago that I watch UK nursing instructor Dr. John Campbell on youtube. Here's the link. If it cycles, just google Dr. John Campbell on youtube. It's his latest video released this past Saturday.

Don't be put off by the teaching doctorate. This means he communicates directly and much more effectively than 99% of our Cdn experts have. His latest news is that the Indian variant is likely to burn through the UK population despite their high rate of 2 dose Astra Zeneca. Good news is that the fully vaccinated are unlikely to become deathly ill. The bad news is that those falling under that threshold may. Canadians fall under that threshold with a bare 3% of our pop fully vaccinated.

This has been reinforced by Sir John Bell - one of the Astra Zeneca pioneers - who was critical last week of Canada's reversal on AZ. The variants - specifically the Indian variant right now - are formidable. While I've had great respect for the CDC for decades, I'm puzzled by their recent announcement that fully vaccinated citizens will be fine to take the masks off. I understand the social need for this and that there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel, a carrot, etc to motivate people to take experimental vaccines for the good of society. But this leaves large masses of people who either can't or won't take their 2 shots. Perhaps the CDC has made a practical decision to just move on in the face of vax hesitancy.

Bottom line is it just isn't really over. I also agree that we can't live in fear and at some point borders need to fully open to regular citizens (they've been leaking like a sieve for private jet passengers, gov't officials and unhappy snowbirds) but people need to get to where they need to go. The issue is when that will happen. I don't know that now is that time. The next few months may teach us some really hard sobering lessons. Like we haven't had enough of those. I really hope I'm wrong. (edited above to connect some dots)

 

[azrivest]

I want to believe that no one (or mostly no one) is purposefully being disruptful or mean-spirited in this whole situation. Everyone is trying to get through this pandemic in the best way for us as individuals, parents, families and friends. We adhere to the beliefs that comfort us and validate our opinions. But we can't force our own set of values on others unfortunately. Even if that means watching neighbours drink wine with friends or seeing idiots demonstrate in the streets against health measures (at least they're outside I guess?)

As Olaf would say, all good things, all good things! We will go back to Disney one day!

 

[HappilyEverAfter80]

View attachment 575436

I want to believe that no one (or mostly no one) is purposefully being disruptful or mean-spirited in this whole situation. Everyone is trying to get through this pandemic in the best way for us as individuals, parents, families and friends. We adhere to the beliefs that comfort us and validate our opinions. But we can't force our own set of values on others unfortunately. Even if that means watching neighbours drink wine with friends or seeing idiots demonstrate in the streets against health measures (at least they're outside I guess?)

As Olaf would say, all good things, all good things! We will go back to Disney one day!

Not sure if you referred to what I said about neighbours having a party, but for the record I’m not forcing my values or beliefs on them or anyone else. What I said is that I see a lot of people in a different light now... and how divided we are as a society. Unfortunately. It’s ok to think this is not ok when my kid is looking out the window asking why they can have 8 kids on a trampoline and he’s not allowed to go to a friend’s house. I am somewhere in the middle with all the restrictions, and while I may get frustrated seeing certain things there is no making comments to anyone, not forcing anything.
Anyway. This thread is about when will border reopen. I think we can all agree not right now but hopefully in the next few months. Some will be more comfortable than others to travel, to ditch the masks etc. I’m certainly not judging but for my family we will go as soon as it’s allowed. You’re absolutely right, we will get back. Light at the end of the tunnel for sure now. Maybe I’m naive but hey... trying not to be all doom and gloom.

 

[HappilyEverAfter80]

Just catching up with this thread and clear people are entrenched in their positions. The one thing we can all agree with is we want the pandemic over and our lives returned to normal. But I have concerns we aren't out of the woods yet.

Think I mentioned some months ago that I watch UK nursing instructor Dr. John Campbell on youtube. Here's the link. If it cycles, just google Dr. John Campbell on youtube. It's his latest video released this past Saturday.

Don't be put off by the teaching doctorate. This means he communicates directly and much more effectively than 99% of our Cdn experts have. His latest news is that the Indian variant is likely to burn through the UK population despite their high rate of 2 dose Astra Zeneca. Good news is that the fully vaccinated are unlikely to become deathly ill. The bad news is that those falling under that threshold may. Canadians fall under that threshold with a bare 3% of our pop fully vaccinated.

This has been reinforced by Sir John Bell - one of the Astra Zeneca pioneers - who was critical last week of Canada's reversal on AZ. The variants - specifically the Indian variant right now - are formidable. While I've had great respect for the CDC for decades, I'm puzzled by their recent announcement that fully vaccinated citizens will be fine to take the masks off. I understand the social need for this and that there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel, a carrot, etc to motivate people to take experimental vaccines for the good of society. But this leaves large masses of people who either can't or won't take their 2 shots. Perhaps the CDC has made a practical decision to just move on in the face of vax hesitancy.

Bottom line is it just isn't really over. I also agree that we can't live in fear and at some point borders need to fully open to regular citizens (they've been leaking like a sieve for private jet passengers, gov't officials and unhappy snowbirds) but people need to get to where they need to go. The issue is when that will happen. I don't know that now is that time. The next few months may teach us some really hard sobering lessons. Like we haven't had enough of those. I really hope I'm wrong. (edited above to connect some dots)

Most of us here (if not all) agree NOW is not the time but come Fall border should reopen.
As for the India variants (or any other hot spot) border should be sealed shut to anyone who has even just visited there and not just flights stopped. I don’t think this is happening right now? All loopholes like having a few days stopover in another county should be thought of, that’s really the only way. On the other hand our current hotel quarantine (although I generally disagree with it) should help. Let’s try to be hopeful. At this point in the pandemic (15 months?) I really am trying to hold on to any positive.
I really do think we are close to being out of the woods.
I get to book my vaccine tomorrow (Ontario)
Yey!

 

[tinkerone]

I am not, nor have I ever, advocated for fully open borders at the very beginning. But taking fear out of the equation and looking at actual statistical and scientific data, including those conducted by the CDC, there is little justification to restrict a fully vaccinated citizen (who hails from an area with lower transmission and death rates) from entering Canada at this point, as long as that person is willing to accept the risk posed by unvaccinated Canadians.

This isn't directed at you, Jacqueline, but I saw the remark from another poster above, and I'm not sure why an opposing viewpoint has to be taken as "political". There are no "politics" in my statements.....I have made no comments on the current administration in either country, or how that is factored into this whole mess. I like to look at the science because that has no "party". If someone can give me statistical data to support their claims of imminent danger by a vaccinated individual, I'm all ears. The use of the ignore button is fine.....it honestly doesn't hurt my feelings.....because I'm not looking to secure "likes". I appreciate a thoughtful discussion and debate, especially on a topic that is so relevant to us all.

I guess my issue with the CDC is that it has become political and as such I don't trust it as much as I had. CDC is being bullied by politics to come out and say/do things they may not want to. Just look at what Florida is trying to get them to do with the cruising industry and that is just one example. I'm afraid, at least for me, the CDC doesn't hold the respect it once did.

No one is sure if asymptomatic people can pass Covid if fully vaccinated. There hasn't been enough time to be sure of anything. People who have been fully vaccinated are still getting Covid, Bill Maher being the latest example, so why would we not think they could still pass Covid? Saying they can't is just a dream at this point.

I want to travel just as bad as anyone. I had to cancel several vacations last year and I may have to cancel our vacations booked for October. It saddens me however I don't want the boarders opened until there is clear CLEAR consensus by all and not just something one country decides so it can make it's people happy. I want all my family and friends protected. I want every person I pass to be protected. If the boarders have to stay closed to do that, I'm good and I don't care how others are offended by it.

 

[azrivest]

Not sure if you referred to what I said about neighbours having a party, but for the record I’m not forcing my values or beliefs on them or anyone else.

Yup, totally agree with you on this. Was also referring to all this petty talk about ignoring each other and what not. Not everyone on this forum will agree over everything, and that's okay. We're all allowed our opinions.

Anyway. This thread is about when will border reopen. I think we can all agree not right now but hopefully in the next few months. Some will be more comfortable than others to travel, to ditch the masks etc. I’m certainly not judging but for my family we will go as soon as it’s allowed. You’re absolutely right, we will get back. Light at the end of the tunnel for sure now. Maybe I’m naive but hey... trying not to be all doom and gloom.

I also agree with you that it probably won't be until the Fall, at least not until a higher % of Canadians have had their 2nd dose.

 

[Jrb1979]

We all want to travel again soon. For me it doesn't bother me that much cause I never planned for vacations outside of Canada this summer. I made vacation plans around road trips here.

 

[pigletto]

I think biggest problem is that we’ve become completely polarized on these issues and it’s taking away from decent conversation and adding to frustration for everyone.
Lately it feels like you can only be lumped into two groups .. Group A ) socially responsible , science believing , rule following Canadian do gooders , or Group B ) rogue covid deniers , ruining for it for the masses , non mask wearing ,lockdown rally attending , science denying morons .

And there are a lot of people who fall squarely in those two groups . But the problem here is the rest of us are on a spectrum and we are being pushed into one position or another without much thought for our point of view.

It IS possible to be a good citizen and still question the decisions of our leaders and experts. In fact I would argue that healthy discourse and questioning the status quo is what makes us better Canadians. I grew up in a very academic family with a mother who is a brilliant healthcare practitioner and diagnostician , a brother who went to med school , a neurosurgeon in the USA for a brother in law , a sister in law who has been pulled into our ICU to work with Covid patients. I KNOW it’s real , I know we need these public health measures in place but I still question some of the measures and the unintended but very real effects that they are having on our society as a whole .

I worry that the “Keep Eveything Locked Down !” mantra works largely for the privileged middle classes who can AFFORD to keep locked down . Social support payments can’t go on forever . Hardworking Canadians with children and families to support are sinking lower and lower below that poverty line and will not be able to come back .

So do we do this forever ? Every variant , every wave , every new discovery pushes us back inside , relying support to put food on the table ? I can most definitely see the concerns with taking those choices away from people who just want to work again , support themselves and make choices in their own lives . I get the frustration .

I have followed every rule to the letter and I want to fight this pandemic as much as anyone but there will come a time that even I just can’t do this anymore . A time when I will no longer support taking away people’s livelihoods and autonomy . Do I know what the answer is ? Absolutely not . But I truly do not believe locking people in their homes will be the answer much longer .

I did a bad job being a decent person last night @Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina and I made a joke and tried to stay out of the fray but I feel badly about it. I’m sorry . I don’t agree with a lot of your views lately but I DO know you to be a kind person who just lost your mom and I can’t imagine your frustrations with not being able to be in your home country right now . I’m really sorry and promise to do better.

I know all of you to be kind a decent people and I would sure love to go back to talking about trips . I truly hope I haven’t offended anyone . Just wanted to say some stuff that’s been on my mind for awhile.