List of cuts, changes, and closures now online

[TXDeb]

I think I also prefer the idea of closing each park for one full day a week, rather than reducing the operating schedules of every park, everyday. I like having the parks open at night, since I have teens, who tend to prefer hitting the parks later anyway. Operating a full schedule 6 days a week, would be a lot less confusing to guests, then what they have planned now.

 

[DC7800]

if we can identify changes which would be more acceptable, then maybe the Disney lurkers around here might just consider them...

For starters, Disney could diffuse at least some of the complaints and criticism by not making such draconian changes so abruptly. From what I gather, some people showed up for EE Sunday morning only to find it cancelled; others got the notice in their WDW hotel rooms Saturday evening. I can understand why these guests, and those with trips planned within the next few weeks, would feel like the rug had been pulled out from under them, so to speak. Give us some advance notice next time, and if the EE changes are temporary, this should be announced. Disney doesn't owe us an explanation for everything they do, but most people (whethor they approve or abhor the actions) understand why some adjustments may be necessary in these unusual times. So, if we were certain these "changes" were only temporary, it would change the whole picture Disney has conveyed with EE's termination. Had these changes been handled more "diplomatically", for lack of a better word, there would have been less of a "firestorm" of guest complaints.

In addition, it wasn't really necessary to completely stop all Early-Entry privileges. The program - and expenses - could be reduced by having fewer EE days per week (how about 4 - one for each park?), or by opening a limited number of attractions for that first hour. For instance, open just Main Street and Fantasyland for MK's EE day. Now, before anyone objects to that, it's not my favorite idea either, but it sure beats no EE at all, and would in fact give guests a chance to take-in typically busy, slow-moving attractions. Epcot's Future World should immediately be restored to a 9 a.m. opening, even if the only things "open" are Spaceship Earth and Innoventions. In all cases, redirect the Character Caravan to the EE park - maybe part of some sort of "festive" atmosphere for guests who show up early - "Breakfast with Mickey", or something (give out donuts, maybe coffee, etc). The end result is an "EE" without opening up the whole park (so the financial savings are still there).

I don't mind the 9 a.m. opening at AK, because if Epcot's hours are restored, all the parks would at least have the same schedule. Actually, the change that bothers me most is not EE, but Epcot's late opening and early closing. What's really unfortunate is that Future World actually doesn't close at 7 as reported - Spaceship Earth, Test Track, and (parts of?) Innoventions remain open. Now, the Living Seas I believe already closed at 7, and JIYI is shuttered, so the only real "changes" are closing The land, U of E, and WOL early. Still, Disney is no doubt hounded by critcism for closing Future World early! This situation, and the late opening, can (and should) be quickly remedied (at minimal cost). I don't like attractions which open late or close earlier than the rest of the park, but I could accept "groups" of attractions (as in FW) closing together in exchange for enjoying the rest of Epcot during a "normal" 9-9 schedule.

 

[LoDivaLoca]

JEEEEEEZ!!!!

I just read the whole list of changes/cut-backs....NO WONDER EVERYONE'S COMPLAINING!!! I was sooooo looking forward to my trip next month, and trust me, I still am - but JEEEEEZ! Mannequins is closed too!!!???? MY God, the next update we'll get is that Magic Kingdom itself is closed. I'm sorry, I can't believe they're hurting THIS bad.....

 

[Bob O]

I think the last thing wdw should have done to improve attendance/profitability was to elminate EE. That is a great perk to have people stay on site,escpecially with reduced operating hours its even more important.
To improve attendance they need to offer more and not just cut everything!!! Offer extra fastpasses to onsite guests to fill up hotel rooms, if anything market a improved EE program rather then elimnate it. Offer deals that if you stay on site lets say for 3 days you get a free day at the park. Things like this will encorage guests to stay on site and if people feel they are getting more value they may be less upset over the cutbacks made and may use that as a justification to spend more on food/trinkets etc.
Other resorts are offering inducements to gain attendance and not just cutting everything. What good is a cheaper room if the hours are reduced greatly and so are the attractions/shows in the parks.

 

[JeffJewell]

would BK be enough to offset no EE and/or reduced hours and shows

...my first reaction is, it depends on precisely what Beasty Kingdom ends up being (I personally doubt the addition of the PhilharMagic will have, on its own, the kind of drawing power needed to entice guests into Disney as opposed to another theme park or resort). If Beastly Kingdom is a cool e-ride with knock-down drag-out theming, and there are a couple support rides or shows in the area, well, that might just be enough to get some people moving and moving right away.

Of course, the problem with this is that by the time Beastly Kingdom could get built, attendance will dictate that AK's hours will be from 10:15 to 10:45 on alternate Thursdays.

Chad, you speak of BK "offsetting" the lack of EE and other things. You've also pointed out, in other threads, in what sounds like a defense of some Disney policies, that Disney is a business and has responsibilities to stockholders.

Disney's problem as a business is _right now_ they can't get people in their resorts. I agree that they have a responsibility to stockholders, and I further believe that they have muffed that responsibility by cutting one of the things that entices regulars to travel this time of year, and that entices guests to stay on-site instead of off-site.

Even if BK is an "acceptable" trade, in the minds of particular individuals (and this would be completely speculative personal preference: we don't know what BK is and, by you're own standards, we really can't comment on the experience it offers until we see it for ourselves), it does not change the reality that Disney needs heads in beds right now, not two years from now when BK might open. It also does not change the fact that, at this point, some of Disney's booking problems are a direct result of their own toying around with EE.

Jeff

 

[hopemax]

I don't think expansion/EE are an even trade. Any serious expansion plans would be 3-5 years away from opening. It helps with getting people to see the value in a WDW vacation...in 3 to 5 years.

EE helps NOW!

With everything going on in the world, the customers we are expected to graciously accept less than the status quo, well... the shareholders can do it too. So if the company can expand and operate EE while staying in the black, then they should do it, and quit worrying about profits declining sharply vs. increasing or declining not so much.

I have no patience right now for whining that profits fell ____ and how awful that is. Did they make any money? Be happy about that. If the customers are happy and want to return the profits will return as a result.

 

[YoHo]

The problem is that there is no status Quo.



LISTEN TO ME!

according to every report I've read WDW is DEAD, LACKING IN CROWDS. NO ONE THERE!! for most of the week.

They Are ONLY busy on the WEEKENDS.

Why does EE even matter when the attendence is like that?

 

[hopemax]

If it's busy on the weekends, wouldn't EE be useful on the weekends?

 

[YoHo]

I'll grant you that. But maybe the pros and cons of keeping it for the weekend say no. I'm not sure about that. I don't have ALL the facts, just some of them.

 

[JeffJewell]

Why does EE even matter when the attendence is like that

...because EE provides extra "park hours" in a day, during a time of year when earlier closing hours limit the amount of available park time. Also, because EE is a perq for choosing to stay in a Disney resort, as opposed to an off-site resort.

Whatever the status quo, or lack thereof, the elimination of EE is going to have the effect that some people who might have travelled in the near future, will wait, instead. It will also have the effect of giving the traveller who going on vacation now, come hell or high water, one fewer reason to choose a Disney resort.

In other words, eliminating EE can _only_ result in fewer still hotel bookings in the near future.

Jeff

PS: Of course, you could argue that there could be another question; whether or not Disney's management feels that shuttering a percentage of resorts and ending discounts and perqs on the rest will maximize the per guest spending numbers, therefore triggering another set of executive bonuses, and conclude that eliminating EE to reduce near future resort bookings is a brilliant plan on the part of those executives...

 

[Carl]

I had increased my stay from my usual 4-5 days stay to 7 days in 2002. I would NEVER have increased my stay knowing that all those cuts were coming. My reason: I wanted the extra days to be able to take the time to finally enjoy all the live entertainment offered in World Showcase. This is also the reason I booked an Epcot resort. Well, it appears that almost ALL the live entertainment has been canceled! So, why in the world would I add 2 days to my vacation to watch something which isn't there anymore? And why stay at an Epcot resort when nothing is going on at Epcot?

 

[YoHo]

So, Jeff, DIsney should leave EE alone so that its onsite guests have an extra hour to twiddle their thumbs since they rode every ride and saw every show already?
I could understand leaving it for the weekends, but I just don't understand why this is a valuable perk given the attendence or lack there of.

I agree with what I've seen a number of people post on a number of threads. I stay onsite, because of the Atmosphere and the fact that its in Disney. EE was never an important perk and I have to wonder if we on the DIS are more sensative to this then the rest of the world. We will soon find out.

 

[All Aboard]

Actually YoHo, WDW should have left at a bare minimum Saturday MK EE since the weekends have been PACKED lately. With the rumored elimination of Spectro (which has only been running on Saturdays - and TWICE each Saturday due to heavy crowds) it seems like WDW is making cuts with only expense (not guest consideration) in mind.

Sat MK EE was very well attended Sep 22, Sep 29 & Oct 6 - I can tell you that from first hand experience. I've read the same concerning Oct 13th.

When we checked in at the All Stars on Sep 21 & Oct 5, I asked other guests in line and in the food court and around the pool where they were from. A large number were from in-state. Jax, Tampa, South Florida. They were taking advantage of low rates. These guests are being impacted by the loss of EE.

Here's what they were thinking. Hmmm, I was there three weekends ago - boy was the place packed. I wonder if we should go this weekend? Hmmm, no EE, no spectro, Epcot closes when? Nah, I'll just wait till all this is over.

 

[JeffJewell]

So Jeff, DIsney should leave EE alone so that its onsite guests have an extra hour to twiddle their thumbs since they rode every ride and saw every show already

...I'm sorry, but I simply completely disagree with you about this one. There has always been something to do at Disney; so you hit the EE park at 7:30, then you go to another park later. EE extends the length of the Disney day by an hour and a half (particularly with AK's backed-up opening).

The only thumb-twiddling going on will in the resort without EE, trying to keep the kids quiet until Magic Kingdom opens two hours from now (and Disney cancelled your resort's character breakfast)...

Perhaps gcurling's more personal assessment describes the picture I fear these cuts will paint:

I was there three weekends ago - boy was the place packed. I wonder if we should go this weekend? Hmmm, no EE, no spectro, Epcot closes when? Nah, I'll just wait till all this is over

That's just a bad impression to give your customers, if you really need to get them back in the resorts ASAP.

Jeff

 

[hopemax]

But Disney CANNOT decide to operate in the red just to please its customers. Disney has an obligation to be as profitable as possible to its shareholders...I

I'm not saying Disney should operating in the red to please it's customers. In fact I said that Disney shouldn't make choices that would put them in the red. But what does being as profitable as possible to it's shareholders mean?

Does it mean making decisions that make this one year as profitable as possible but with a cliff at the end of 3 years? Or does it mean making decisions that maximize profits over multi-year periods?

I firmly believe that Disney's decisions are killing their customer base, thus affecting their income and how does that fit into fulfilling their "obligation to shareholders?"

I'm not suggesting an end to capitalism, just a different strategy to reaching the goal given the upheaval everyone is facing. It's the whole catching "more flies with honey" scenario. Right now I feel like I'm being told in a gruff voice, "take it or leave it, this guy needs the money." Well don't be surprised if people choose "leave it." And I don't think it's in the best interest of the shareholders for their customers to get in the habit of choosing something else, they may stumble upon one that they like even better.

 

[YoHo]

Jeff, extending the length of the Disney day would only be true if the Parks were the only Disney expireance there. You and I both know that that isn't true. There are plenty of other things to do around the world. I personally am not a morning person so I understand this affects me far less. Even so, I think it underrates the rest of the resort to suggest that the only real Disney expireance is in the park.


At the Same time, I fully understand gcurlings positions. Personally, I've seena couple post suggesting Spectro is still a go, so that's one less thing.

The thing of it is, gcurling while he may be typical of who is going to WDW RIGHT NOW, is not a typical WDW guest.Relativly speaking, Disney charged just as much for the poly in 1989 before EE as they do now and I felt it was worth every penny. They in essence were giving us a perk for free (what a concept huh?) I'm sad to see it go, but I fail to understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[JeffJewell]

Jeff, extending the length of the Disney day would only be true if the Parks were the only Disney expireance there. You and I both know that that isn't true.

...even though I might agree with that, I'm not cancelling my December trip, in any case. Just because we're all nuts that are going anyway (actually, I'm starting to feel more and more alone in maintaining my reservations) doesn't mean that the market at large sees the non-park subtleties that we see (And even so, come on, without EE, how much is there really to do at that time of morning?). All I'm saying is, there will be families out there who are basically going to erase 7:30-9:00 off of every day of their vacation schedules (My in-laws, believe it or not, arrived in Orlando the first day without EE. With nothing else to do at the All Stars that time of morning, they were free to use the extra time to go off-site for breakfast). Bad time for that.

They in essence were giving us a perk for free (what a concept huh?)

Feel free to chalk this up to negativity, but I believe the Surprise Mornings had little to do with "giving for free" and were instead created mostly to ensure a Disney exclusive benefit for the Moderates and Values to better compete with cheaper still off-site hotels, and they even worked, for that purpose. To get rid of that competitive advantage is a mistake, in the battle for the small pool of still travelling customers.

I humbly maintain that this is the wrong cut at the wrong time, and it's a cut that can only affect resort bookings negatively.

Jeff

 

[hopemax]

All I'm saying is, there will be families out there who are basically going to erase 7:30-9:00 off of every day of their vacation schedules (My in-laws, believe it or not, arrived in Orlando the first day without EE. With nothing else to do at the All Stars that time of morning, they were free to use the extra time to go off-site for breakfast). Bad time for that.

I wondered about this too. We would use EE 3 times over our 10 day trip, once for each park. However we would take advantage of buses running early to deliver EE guests to the parks to use as transportation to the other hotels for breakfast. If it was EE at the Magic Kingdom, we'd go eat at Chef Mickey's, 1900 Park Fair or Minnie's (however it's spelled) breakfast at the Poly. EE at MGM, we'd take the boat to the Yacht & Beach for Cape May. Now the options, since we normally stay at PO-Riverside ar Boatwrights (but 3 bad service episodes out of 3 times turns off that one) so that leaves the food court. The end result is that instead of the $15 I was spending on breakfast, I'm only spending $5 or so. My other choice is to bring breakfast food from home with me and eat in the room, and then Disney looses the whole $15.

 

[YoHo]

There is no confirmation on the bus schedule yet.
Disney has commited to at least some PS at in park establishments for times before the park actually opens, so they may have transportation running.
Personally I figure if they leave Early PS intact for the lieks of Cinderella's, half of the upset people will be happy.

 

[Lesley]

I was not a frequent WDW visitor prior to ee. It was ee that was at least partially responsible for getting me to stay on-site back in 1994....and what helped to convince me to never stay off-property again while visiting WDW. And if I wasn't hooked on staying on site I wouldn't have joined DVC... Do you get the picture? The concept of ee has encouraged me to give Disney a whole lot more of my money than I might have otherwise.

While, yes, there are other on-property advantages, ee was a really huge one...one that was a decision maker for me and my dh. And we've come to love it! Even being usually late risers, we would drag our butts out of bed most mornings at WDW because that early morning, empty park atmosphere was so wonderful. And from recent reports it seems like at least on the weekends you aren't going to find the parks empty.

Another concern about the park hour cuts and elimination of ee is that there really isn't much to do before 9am (well, admittedly...we'll sleep!) or in the evenings. Many of the recreational activities are also going on during the day. I'm kind of irked that when my ds takes his pirate cruise in Jan (if that still happens) it will take out of our limited park time. Before the elimination of ee I wouldn't have thought twice about it. Also with small kids we liked to go back to the resort in the afternoon...maybe swim, etc...But after getting a late start we probably won't get a chance to do this. And I'm guessing that in January it will be a bit cold to swim after dark.

Oh well, enough complaining...I still think this was a really bad move, not just for the time being but for the future of WDW. There are going to be a lot of unhappy guests who booked with promises of ee mornings and discover upon arrival that they're gone....nevermind the ones cancelling already.