List of cuts, changes, and closures now online

[Another Voice]

Captain, sir. I am glad you were able to make a third visit this year to the Animal Kingdom Lodge, and I am honestly glad you and your family enjoyed the visit. I do not think our differences of opinion come from varying appreciations of “magic”, or different philosophies, or even from different tastes. I think it all comes down to our levels of confidence in The Company’s current management. I truly hope that you, Captain, are correct. But based on my experience, I fear that I am right.

The one truth about magic is that it’s one part illusion, and four parts willingness to believe. The audience is an active part of the process. It’s the audience that changes flickering images on a screen into a story about an elephant that can fly, it’s the audience that changes a fiberglass building in a Florida orange grove into the storybook castle, and it’s the audience that changes a bus ride through a zoo into an African safari. Break the audience’s will for even just a moment – and the “magic” disappears forever.

People’s wills are rather fragile right now, and it will take effort to get an audience to do its part of “magic”. It does not help matters when Disney constantly reminds the audience that they are simply part of an economic calculation designed to insure the survival of a massive corporation. A trip to WDW right now is a huge financial and emotion investment for the vast majority of people; very, very few have the luxury of multiple trips in a single year. People are – and should – make careful decisions.

To many, the message sent by all the recent cutbacks is that The Company is more important than its guests. That is a shock for those who want to see “magic” and one that I have never seen Disney send before. At a time when the Company could be setting an example and displaying some true business leadership, it seems to be taking the cowardly, easy way out.

 

[Captain Crook]

I think it all comes down to our levels of confidence in The Company's current management.

Well, perhaps we can agree on something (lol). But it is still the individual desire to go and enjoy. For many the desire to pick nits is far greater than the personal satisfaction of going to WDW. For others nothing short of Eisner's departure will allow for the admission of any good decisions. For others the fact that something they personally liked has been taken away hits home (be it EE nights, show time cancellations or free valet parking).

Certainly everyone has aright to dissent from my opinion, I realize I'm the leader of the 'Rose colored glasses' brigade. But I intensly dislike being characterized as shallow, unintelligent, a lemming or as having my head buried in the sand because I see WDW in such a positive light (make no mistake, this particular thread has remained civil, but others have been less courteous).

As I have said, I do have the luxury of multiple yearly visits, which allow much greater selectivity, but still in order for my vacation to be magical certain elements must remain and IMO, they still do, much of which probably directly relate tot he fact that I'm still taking small children & my personal mindset is to see that we're having fun as a family - not to whine about NOT getting to see Beauty & the Beast (my favorite show, btw).

Many of you figure that what's gone is lost forever...This, I guess, is the part I don't get. I can't beleive that when/if things get back to normal that things at Disney won't (that's our difference in faith in current management, I guess).

to many, the message snt by all the recent cutbacks is that the Company is more important than the guest.

Well, isn't it? In trying times isn't it more important that the Company survive rather than flame out in a blaze of glory (sometimes it is better to run away to live and fight another day)? I know Eisner and the executive salaries are a big bother to many of you, but you're being microscopic. These things are quite irrellevent in the big picture. I too, would love Eisner to follw the AA CEO & make a gesture (if for no other reason than to please the masses) but it really isn't substantial in the scheme of things.

The fact is that closing shows that are running far below capacity is a smart thing. The same with Parks. I'm sure weekend schedules will even out if the crowds remain, but expect weekdays to take further cuts including total closure if the crowds stay away. I won't like it, for it will make my planning a bit more difficult, but I understand it...

 

[HBK]

And when things return to normal do you think wdw will return everything they have reduced/eliminated or will they only return a portion of the items they cut back/eliminated??? It seems once things are cut back they are never returned to there former glory. I think things will slowly return but wont be returned in its entirety and will again be used to save money and reduce the guest experience>

I'm with ya Bob. Say good-bye to EE. Say hello to staggered schedules. You can't close the box once it's opened.

The one truth about magic is that it’s one part illusion, and four parts willingness to believe.

I think that is the most accurate statement regarding Disney's magic I've ever heard. It seems like they're losing a lot of the willingness parts as of late.

Many of you figure that what's gone is lost forever...This, I guess, is the part I don't get. I can't beleive that when/if things get back to normal that things at Disney won't (that's our difference in faith in current management, I guess).

Captain....why would they re-introduce these options? When they cut the hours back in the past, have they ever re-instated them?

 

[Captain Crook]

Captain...why would they reintroduce those options?

Simple supply & demand. When they are once again forced to compete for profitability in a real world economy, they will again have to offer perks, benefits & Disney niceities as they always have. Right now they're sailing uncharted waters, but the course will steady in time...When? That's the million dollar question.

I have complete faith that Disney will continue to act 'Disney like'...When I lose that faith, my alligence will be gone & so will my willingness to spend any of my money along with my desire to care or talk about Disney any further. But, as I said, I just returned from another great trip, and maybe I don't need as much as others, maybe what I need is just different, but I can tell you that the AKL all by itself will keep my AP in use for the rest of this year!

 

[TXDeb]

Hmmm....
Seems that in some people's eyes Disney will never have to compete for their dollars. It is one of the only businesses that I know of where there is such a large percentage of loyal customers that will continue to spend money there, no matter how the product is cut. How many other companies can make the cut-backs that Disney has, and still have people ready to spend such big bucks (and who are ready to chastise those who prefer not to spend for a lesser product)?

If there is a large enough group willing to accept anything Disney decides to offer, at any price that Disney decides to charge, then Disney will never ever really be operating in the 'real world economy' that other businesses face. (And their business decisions will continue to reflect that.)

 

[Captain Crook]

It seems TxDeb, that it is you doing the chastising. I fully accept your decision to withold your money for a product you feel inferior, but do I have to be labeled a simpleton because I happen to still enjoy WDW? This friendly discussion could get nasty if that's true...

I just do not subscribe to the theory that Eisner is the devil & the Company no longer cares about its reputation or its guests...Last weekend they cared for my family very well. I much prefer to have Disney be able to ride out this very unclear & troubled time & be there when normalcy again arrives (whenever that is)...

As for Disney not having to compete to keep my dollar...Well, I've been to SeaWorld, US/IOA, Vegas & Busch Gardens, so Disney has had to "keep me" coming back. But these other options don't turn my crank. I have no desire to visit the others more than once in a blue moon, does this indicate that I'm a blind follower? I think not...

Lastly, if this discussion is to continue I was under the opinion that two sides needed to be represented. If the majority here wishes to bash without merit, let me know, I'll leave...

 

[TXDeb]

Captain Cook,
I am not chastising you for your personal decision, and I am sorry if you took it that way. It was a general comment not directed at anyone in particular. I am not in any way trying to imply that you are a simpleton.

BTW - I could be just as offended by those posts that seem to imply that I am not a 'loyal' Disney fan if I choose not to want to support their recent decisions with my $$$.

Lastly, if this discussion is to continue I was under the opinion that two sides needed to be represented. If the majority here wishes to...

I have no problem with hearing your opinion. I appreciate your comments from the 'other side'. I just want to be able to state my opinions as well! Besides, I don't see this as 'taking sides'. I am a big Disney fan. I love WDW and want to see the company continue to do well. We just disagree on their methods, not the end goal.

 

[Baileymouse]

The Fall has always been a soft time for Disney attendance but I'd like to see figures for Oct. & Nov. comparing them with previous years. I tried to get an inexpensive flight for "Jersey Week" but couldn't. If all the area airports up here are saying that the flights are at or near capacity for the Nov. 8 - 12 period, where is the decrease? Yes, it was slow the week after the attack. Yes, they let the part-timers go. I don't think there's been that much of a decrease. Perhaps oversaturation and the glut of hotel rooms, combined with an economy which has softened made them need to offer discounts but I don't think they're hurting as badly as other destinations. Travel agents can't get anyone to fly to the Caribbean but they're telling me that they've had no real change in Disney reservations since Oct. 1.

 

[TXDeb]

Actually, thedscoop, my btw was not directed at you personally either. I just noticed posts in several different threads from a few different people that seem to express that general feeling. Didn't really notice who they were in particular since it wasn't 'that' big a deal to me. They are welcome to, and have a right to their opinion. Just a reoccuring theme that I noticed.

 

[JeffJewell]

if you make WDW into Six Flags...if you close entire parks or reduce hours below the 9 hour a day mark, if you screw around too much...you're gonna be gone because even us loyal Disney fans will be gone

...perhaps that is the root of our differences of opinion on things Disney. I think it's important to kick your feet and scream long before Pressler has the chance to turn it into Six Flags. If you wait to be upset until he does it, well, it's done, then. None of the cars are going anywhere, at that point.

I think it's important to call attention to disturbing trends and directions, because after you've hit the wall, it's well too late to change course.

Jeff

 

[YoHo]

I like the good Captain have a hard time being MAD at Disney right now.

To those of you that think Disney will never give back the perks it took away. I find that unlikely. You know EE is a fairly new idea. An Idea designed to make staying onsite even more appealing then before. When Disney is ready to ramp up again and return to 90% occupancy, you'll see the return of EE to keep those rooms full. Disney ultimatly needs to stay profitable and when things are back on track, their current policies will no longer be the most profitable.

At the same time, I say vote with your pocketbook. If its enough to change or cancel your plans, do it. Call them and express your displeasure. Just because you and I understand why they did something, doesn't mean we have to take it lying down. If you aren't happy let them know.

Ultimatly, the only way Disney will survive is to make their guests happy. If they can make their guests happy without as many shows and without EE, then they will. If they can't then that will change. We control Disney's purse strings.

 

[TXDeb]

I think it's important to call attention to disturbing trends and directions, because after you've hit the wall, it's well too late to change

Exactly, my thoughts, Jeff.
The reason that I am so critical of some of WDW's decisions is because I love the place, and I am really afraid for its future. I am not naive. I do understand that some cut-backs are necessary at this time. BUT, I don't believe that Disney is being wise in the way that they are handling these things. Not only are they undermining the trust and good will of so many customers by the way some of the cuts are being made, they are also making many decisions that will lead to cancellations, rather than enticing guests to visit and spend money.

If I blindly accept all the changes, then IMHO, I am allowing, even encouraging, the company to continue to act in what I fear are unwise directions. I am really afraid of where that may lead next! I can express my opinions through letters, phone calls, and e-mails, and I am doing those things. However, I fear that they are not listening to their customers and that the only way to reach the powers of WDW at this point is through $$$. I do hope that I am wrong, though.

 

[JeffJewell]

if we can identify changes which would be more acceptable, then maybe the Disney lurkers around here might just consider them

...do not cut the things like Surprise Mornings that are part of the reason people stay on-site, part of the narrowing gap between Disney resorts and off-site resorts. Surprise Mornings are also part of the motivation for WDW "regulars" to go this time of year: EE adds park hours to what are otherwise short days, this season. Less park time, less incentive to travel now.

Gotta cut hours, okay, open AK an hour later everyday but add a Surprise Morning there. You're saving staffing hours overall while maintaining (perhaps even extending) the extra value of EE for on-site guests.

I'm not against cuts, I'm against stupid cuts that will just lead to fewer people travelling now, and fewer people seeing the value in staying on-site, precisely the two wounds from which WDW already bleeds.

Jeff

 

[YoHo]

I think that's the key, cutting a resort perk right now is only going to make it worse. For instance, many like gcurling take advantage of EE and stay onsite over weekends. His is one less family that will be there. Keep it up and you may see the weekends die off much as the weekdays have.

I agree with JeffJewell, cut your regular operating hours, especially during the week.

 

[Captain Crook]

Disney maintained it's regular schedules (regular hours, full slate of shows, EE, etc) but instead closed a minor Park three days a week? Like Epcot on Monday, MGM on Tuesday & AK on Wednesday (notice no closing of MK). Further, they could operate only one water park per day. Would this be better or worse?

 

[YoHo]

I'd rather they cut hours (especially opening hours. I personally enjoy the park at night.)

Having an entire park closed for a day could work to though. wouldn't bother me. Heck it might make maintainence and new construction cheaper as well.

 

[TXDeb]

Excellent idea, thedscoop!

First of all, I am not against the elimination of EE, if they can offer WDW resort guests, an alternative that still offers some benefit for park access as an incentive to stay on-site. How about some form of FOTL pass. Instead of blanket FOTL access, each resort could offer some type of FOTL pass to different resorts on different days. (Deluxes have FOTL pass to MK on certain days, Moderates on another, etc. This would help spread the crowds out more evenly among the parks. Even if it was done, for only limited hours at each park, it would still give resort guests a feeling of some kind of perk. There should be some way of implementing a system like this without adding too much additional cost. Not sure how to handle MK on Sat. though, unless all resort guests had FOTL access on Sat.

Or bring back EE, the resulting loss of resorts guests may be a bigger 'cost' than the program itself. It would be especially attractive, if opening hours remain at later times. Even if EE was only offered at MK and the Studios, or one day per park, with an additional MK EE on Sat. Or at least have some kind of 'extra' park access for resort guests on busy days, such as Sat. at MK.

Next - how about temporarily closing down some of the minor parks, instead of drastically reducing hours and rides at the major ones. I would much rather have only one minature golf and one water park open, then lose the hours and shows at the big four. Heck, only opening these auxilary parks on the weekends when the crowds are heaviest, would be fine with me. Same with WWoS. There are other options for these types of entertainment, but there is nothing else like MK, Epcot, the Studios, and AK.

I don't have a problem with reducing the numbers of some of the shows, if attendance isn't justifying having them staged so many times each and everyday. Just please put out a schedule in advance, so guests can plan around the shows, if they want to see them. They can still add more, if the crowds warrant it, but at least guests who really want to see the shows can plan around the possibility/probability of the reduced shows.

Same with the restaurants, if the business isn't there, I am not against consolidating some of the services, but make sure it is announced promptly.

I would like to see better communication with the guests. Educate the CMs, especially CRO and the people manning the phones for the PSs as to the changes, so they can answer questions and help guests with alternative planning.

How about cutting back on some other projects through other divisions of the company, if it is drawing money from the areas that are the profit makers, like the parks used to be.

How about a few promotions on tickets, like Universal does. Buy one day, get another free. Buy a 6 day hopper, get a 7th day free. An extra 90 days added to annual passes, or something similar. It may mean a short-term loss on ticket sales, but if people are coming to the parks, they will be likely to spend on food, souvenirs, even resort stays, if they feel they are getting a 'deal' on tickets.

Bring back a few more discounts for AP and DC members like there were in the past. Include resort guests in some of the discounts. Losing 10% or 15% on a family of five's meal is better than having them eat off-site. There are some decent resort discounts right now for select groups, but they have to be good enough and wide enough to compete with the off-site hotels. Cut some rates to the break-even point on the resorts for a limited time, or offer a package that truly gives a discount on the resort and tickets. Most of the time, we can book separately for better rates. Change that.

Let's see the big-wigs cut back on their salaries and perks for a little while to show that they are willing to do their part, just as they are asking the CMs to do with their reduced hours, and the guests to do with their reduced services.

I really, really want to come to WDW -I understand there must be some cut-backs, but just offer me a few little perks to entice me and to let me know that you really want my business, and me and my dollars are yours, WDW!

These are just a few ideas - off the top of my head.

 

[YoHo]

I don't know that WDW is doing it, but last month DISNEYLAND and DCa were giving you a free day on the 4 day and the 7 day hopper passes (I think that was the length of the passes.
Meaning you got a 5 or 8 day pass.

Certainly WDW could do this as well and it would encourage longer hotel stays.
MY concern is whether that's the way most people buy their tickets.
I myself tend to do LOS tickets since they are cheaper and more convient.

 

[hopemax]

I also wouldn't have a problem if a park was closed one day a week as long as what was open was operating under a regular schedule. I know enough about the history of the company to know that they did that regularly before. Plus if the parks that are open are operating in a normal manner you feel like you are getting what you paid for, instead of feeling that you are paying for things that aren't operating and being forced into a schedule (have to be at spot X at 1 PM, because it's your only opportunity to watch show A."

Now backing up for a sec...

Even with these changes though, when someone looks at the whole big view of WDW, I cannot fathom how anyone would say that is has been reduced to the level of simply being an amusement

No, it hasn't dropped that far. But there are other places than WDW that exude "magic" and "atmosphere." They may not be theme parks, but not all of my vacations need to be theme park vacations. WDW isn't being compared to things like Six Flags, but to trips to the Tokyo Disney Resort, a 3-week vacation touring the British Isles, a Meditteranean cruise, a tour of the national parks in the Southwest, etc. And while you may personally decide that those things aren't your cup of tea as much as WDW is, I hope that it is recognized that those things could lead to as fabulous a vacation as WDW, so if a person were to choose those vacations it would be logical and understandable instead of, "How could anyone possibly choose ____ over WDW right now."

 

[TXDeb]

YoHo,
They can still offer a better rate on the LOS for longer stays. For example, for 7 day resort stay, pay current LOS rate for 5 or 6 days, get the extra days free, etc. Or offer a certain % discount on LOS pass rates for a certain # of booked days.