Losing the Magic?

[Conure]

My opinions haven't changed on this. Disney "Magic" is not only the anticipation, but the expierience. Some things you just shouldn't change! Sure, Walt wanted progress. But this shows in MGM Studios and Animal Kingdom. Can't some things be kept the same? Henry Ford knew Ford Motor Co. would eventually move beyond Model Ts, yet, is there anyone out to destroy all these cars? The answer is no. Obviously, some things need to be done, and I'm not against there being some advancements, but don't remove the favorites! The people who loved the Horizons ride, would, when they came back, go on this ride. It didn't matter if they were 13, 31, or 61! But, can you really say the same about the new stuff? Horizons, Star Tours, Great Movie Ride, and others, make (or made) Disney great. It can do something that little else can, entertain and enlighten peopl of anyone, any age, and I think that if Disney keeps updating with "the times" all that will be lost. This is true because The new stuff dosen't attract everyone, just specific groups. If Disney can only attract a few groups of people, and not people of any age, race, or background, THAT'S where the magic is lost.

 

[Eeyore2U]

Henry Ford knew Ford Motor Co. would eventually move beyond Model Ts, yet, is there anyone out to destroy all these cars? The answer is no.

Wait, don't they on occasion discontinue a model? Yes!!! How can you have rides about the future where the future has come and gone? Horizons was horrible after it's last refurb. And I loved the ride.

It can do something that little else can, entertain and enlighten peopl of anyone, any age, and I think that if Disney keeps updating with "the times" all that will be lost. This is true because The new stuff dosen't attract everyone, just specific groups. If Disney can only attract a few groups of people, and not people of any age, race, or background, THAT'S where the magic is lost.

What ride has Disney developed for a specific group at the cost of another so called "classic" ride. I think Test Track appeals to all ages. Give Mission Space a chance.

Conure, do you believe what was top shelf in the 1960s or the 1970s still fits that bill today or are just holding on to what you grew up on?

 

[Bob O]

I think disney is still magical but it is losing its magic slowly but surely. I think future world is very dated and Horizons/World of Motion had outlived their usefulness but then a ride that was timeless like JIYI gets changed for the worse just so disney can add more selling space. They havent updated the movies at Epcot either. MGM is also very stale!!!! Star tours was dateed years ago as is Indy as examples. I think this just reflects a corporate philsophy not to update the parks and get by on good will built up over the years. They belive people will always return so why spend money to improve the product when they will happily buy the old product. I really enjoy Universal and how they have used new technologies to add great attractions like MIB/Spiderman and created great coasters like the Hulk/DD. And even improved on 3D rides like T23d by adding a human element. Disney right now is stagnat and i hope it changes. I hope Mission Space is as good as the previews indicate it might be, but again disney was too cheap to pay for it themselves, but will pay for a parade that is used as a prop for globe sales.
I think a park like magic Kingdom should keep its traditional feel and not be updated as often as the others but even their they have mothballed attractions with no replacements. Walt Disney himself pushed the envelope by using new technologies to make even better rides/attractions but apparently its a concept the leaders at disney have now forgotten.

 

[Bob O]

A roller coaster can be part of an attraction if done the right way but usually for cost its not done. But considering what disney has added lately i would much perfer a world class coaster than some carny rides or dino-o-rama, even with out any great theming. Disney needs to improve their thrill factor IMHO. Their is little thrill at disney, escpecially compared to most rides/shows which are non-thrill. I enjoy both but their is a major lack of the thrill factor.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

the ride vs attraction debate is something i feel very strongly about. See my soon to be posted Disneyland thread. The magic to some degree is being lost by adding rides instead of attractions. however at the same time there are also new attractions being added.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Another thought (tho at 6:00 AM it's kinda hard to think much!):
We're mostly talking about changes, upgrades, etc because many of us have been to WDW a lot (me, 26 times). So we can trace the progress (or, regress, as the case may be) in the rides and attractions. But there are large numbers of brand new visitors every year who have never seen World of Motion or Horizons and now never will.
Sniff, sniff--there's a tear coming in my eye as I think about it. Getting sentimental---.

 

[raidermatt]

Bob, is it really fair to call MGM stagnant? How old are ToT and RnRC?

Ride vs. Attraction is certainly a big part of the equation, but even if Disney built a Hulk scale coaster indoors, with great themeing, it probably wouldn't be the best use of their capital (unless, perhaps, it were part of a 5th gate directed at thrill-seekers, but that's another story).

Part of what turns me off about going to Universal is that they do not have a lot of family-oriented attractions. Yes, they have thrill rides for big kids and adults. And yes, they have kiddie areas for the little ones. But what they don't have much of are things like PotC, IASW, PPFlight, Railroad, Pooh, CBJ, Maelstrom, American Adventure, Universe of Energy, Kilamanjaro, etc, etc, etc. These are attractions that I can not only ride with my 3-year old son and thrill-ride averse wife, but that we can all ENJOY. Nobody is "putting up with" the kiddie rides, we actually like them. And most of the thrill rides are tame enough that my 3-year old can start to enjoy them. So while I would have a blast riding a monster indoor coaster, it would be one more ride without my wife and son. That's not what I want, and its not what many other families want.

Yes, there are exceptions, but that's what Universal, Six Flags, Paramount and Busch Gardens are for.

 

[kenjean]

It was 1995 when my wife talked me into going to Disneyworld for the first time. I was under the opinion that it was just for kids. Much to my surprise, and eventually to my wife's regrets, the magic hit me. I wanted to go back as often as possible, taking every vacation there. Now that we have two daughters, and we live in Florida, we will take them often.

In reading these threads, and thinking back to what captured me that first trip, I feel that the magic has changed. I see that Disney is still spending money (some), or until recently was, on the parks. It is just that the sense of wonder is not as strong as it was. I remember the first attraction I went on, Space Mountain. Having only been to Six Flags before, the que knocked me out. The music and looking through the portals I thought was imaginatively done.

From there to Alien Encounter, elaborately done but not my cup of tea. Then the rest of Tomorrowland, and the rest of the park. It was a great day of discovery, with all the small touches and imagination put into everything.

It is not just the small touches that make Disneyworld for me. It is not the major attractions. It is the combination. From TOT to the TTA, it is the range and breath of attractions that I like. Yes, some are corny and some spectactular, but I like them all. And now that I have small children I appreciate being able to ride anything they can.

My biggest complaint is that Disney is getting careless with new stuff. There doesn't seem to be much planning put in to Alladin or the spin ride in AK, the new JIYI. I use my description of the que on Space Mountain as an example, the effect it had on a first time visitor. There are some bright spots, and I hope Mission Space is one. TT I can't decide on.

The only other thing that bothers me is taking away of extras that to me represented Disney. I really liked EE, the feeling early in the morning when the park was not over-crowded.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

I also do not agree that the Studios has been Stagnant. (I am severely biased though) The Studios has added Fantasmic, Rock n Roller Coaster, Playhouse Disney, Millionaire, Al's Toy Barn, new water effects tank, and One Man's Dream all within the last 4 years.

 

[Conure]

Eeyore2U,
I think it is kind of odd how you mention me just trying to "hang on" to the rides I grew up on, when in truth, I'm 12 years old! I'm not saying what was popular in the 70's is going to be the same now, but, I can't think how I would have any experience with those, considering my age. Besides, I loved Horizons, but don't think adding new stuff in place of these enjoyable rides is justified. As for you're list, here are just a few examples,

1. Great Movie Ride : Though not gone yet, rumors around Disney say it shouldn't be there long.

2. Star Tours: Soon to be updated and turned into PodRacer Simulation

3. HORIZONS!!!! : Sure, it wasn't "futuristic" any more, but change the narraration and make it say the year 2075, and it would have been fine.

I'm not sure how good Mission Space will be, but is impossible to convince me that there was nowhere else they could have put it. Just, before jumping to conclusions, Eeyore2U, please listen to reason. I'm twelve years old and appreciate those rides. I might love whatever they put in their place, if they're gonna get rid of something, make it something they just added, like Alien Encounters. I like a good roller coaster as much as the next guy, but Disney needs to keep 'em in there place.

 

[Eeyore2U]

Just, before jumping to conclusions, Eeyore2U, please listen to reason. I'm twelve years old and appreciate those rides.

And my DW is the woman who's hand I'm kissing!

 

[HorizonsFan]

What has been and what will always be the problem with this particular debate is that we all define "magic" in a very personal way.
It is entirely possible that one can feel the magic is strong and another can feel it fading. It's a very personal thing.
I'm still in car 2, however I have great hope for the future. Hotels can re-open, Imagineers can be re-hired, hours can be reinstated and mistakes can be corrected. In fact, I believe that some of the cutbacks (hotel closures and postponed openings for example) will strengthen the company in the long run. None of the cutbacks as described on these boards has diminished my excitement about going in May. We plan to do Universal and IOA this trip so maybe I'll have something to measure my version of WDW "magic" against. Six Flags certainly doesn't measure up...
My next trip is only 71 days, 12 hours and 57 minutes away. (but who's counting?)
I can already feel the "magic".

 

[GeorgeG]

I can accept change. It's a fact of life. However, I see there'a a lot of sentiment among us for some of our old favorites. Horizons and World of Motion were two of my favorites as well and it may have been nice if they had been left as is with the new stuff added on somewhere. There's no denying that what was once the future is now history, but there's nothing wrong with history, either.

A glimpse into the past isn't all bad. Instead of saying "outdated," perhaps we could say "predated?"

The older I get, the more compassion I have for old things...

 

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by GeorgeG
A glimpse into the past isn't all bad. Instead of saying "outdated," perhaps we could say "predated?"

The older I get, the more compassion I have for old things...

George,

Thanks for using the right words.

 

[brad]

Originally posted by Uncleromulus
there are large numbers of brand new visitors every year who have never seen World of Motion or Horizons and now never will.

Yes.

Like me.


Thanks for NOTHING Ei$ner.

 

[Captain Crook]

Are we just forgetting that the Horizons building was a mess? That it had to come down? How smart would it have been to rebuild an old, outdated ride in a brand new building? Think of the criticisim that would have happend then! Come on guys. sometimes things just have to go & I'd be willing to bet that Eisner wasn't the driving force behind these changes...

 

[HorizonsFan]

I remember Cap'n. I would rather remember Horizons in it's glory than see it in the condition it was in.
And as you can see, I'm a Horizons fan...

 

[Bob O]

Raidermatt-RnRC is new and TOT will probably never get old!!! But Star Tours is old/dated and no replacement is forthcoming as disney is too cheap to do it correctly as far as Lucas is concerned. Indy Jones is old/dated. I do have high hopes for Mission Space. (the last thing they need is a 5th gate when they have 4 incomplete parks now!)
OnWithTheShow i do like RNRC and havent seen the new hat/One Mans dream but the rest mentioned arent my cup of tea at all. And as much as i like Muppets/LM/ beauty and the Beast etc when you seen them numerous times they do get old.
And im not optmisitic they will add new shows/attractions unless they get somebody else to pay for it .

 

[Conure]

Bob O,
As far as the rides you've mentioned, I think Indiana Jones is good for what it's worth and enjoy it as a break from ToT. Also, Star Tours is, in my opinion, fun and a great outlet for Star Wars fans in Disney World to stock up on merchandise. There are enough Star Wars fans who come to Disney that losing that group could almost certainly result in lost revenue. Besides, if they are going to take out a simulation, keep Star Tours, but get rid of Body Wars! I've never gone on it without feeling very sick afterwards. It seems you won't be impressed by much except cutting edge technology. But, that's what sets Disney apart in my mind.

 

[Bob O]

Star Tours is old and for me its boring!!!!! I guess ive been on it too many times and with all the rumors of it being replaced i got my hopes up, only to be dashed by the apparent cheapness of wdw!! I look at Back to the Future as a model ride for disney to beat in simulator type rides.