maintenance fees for 2015

[wdrl]

new to this as we just became DVC members- but any reason for the large increase at AKV? Is it typical given upkeep of animals?

In 2015, the budget line item for Animal Programs is actually going down compared to 2014. It was $0.3435 per point in 2014, and is budgeted for $0.3284 for 2015.

Ad Valorem Taxes seems to account for most of the increase in AKV's 2015 maintenance fees. Taxes are increasing 12.7%. If taxes had remained constant, AKV would have only had an increase of 2.88% from $5.9748 to $6.147.

 

[drusba]

BWV, as suspected by its about $.07 per point increase, did not change significantly in any of the cost items. Property taxes went up 4 cents a point, adminstration and front desk 3 cents, security 1 cent, utilities 1 cent, transportation 1 cent, capital reserves 1 cent, while housekeeping went down 1 cent, maintenance down 1 cent, and member activities down 2 cents. I had actually expected greater increases in the labor intensive expense categories since Disney negotiated a new multi-year contract with WDW's largest union in 2014 that raised wages and increased medical costs.


I am still waiting on AKV.

 

[dizfan]

Three of the properties with large increases seem to be caused by property tax assessed values significantly increasing. Here's a history, using information from DVCNews past reports.

	akv	adv	bcv	blt	bwv	hhi	okw	ssr	vb	vgc	vgf	vwl
2009	0.9927		0.9461	0.828	0.9501	0.2519	0.941	1.0307	0.5071	0.8288		.9477*
2010	1.001		0.9433	0.8697	0.9498	0.2571	0.936	1.0337	0.5193	0.7996		.9477*
2012	1.0392	0.4573	1.0602	0.9805	1.0677	0.2658	0.9885	1.0518	0.5432	0.8005		1.0601
2013	1.0522	0.471	1.055	1.0743	1.0547	0.2718	0.9376	0.9871	0.5667	0.7965		1.0178
2014	1.1964	0.4112	1.0925	1.1583	1.0941	0.2798	0.9626	1.011	0.5862	0.8675	1.3245	1.0018
2015	1.3483			1.3335

Additionally, SSR reportedly increased 13.52% in taxes.

 

[KingRichard]

So what are our member activity's?

Seems like they are charging us million and millions and nothing to show for it?

 

[Doug7856]

So what are our member activity's?

Seems like they are charging us million and millions and nothing to show for it?

I would guess the Merry Mixers and the pool activities.

 

[wdrl]

So what are our member activity's?

Seems like they are charging us million and millions and nothing to show for it?

From the Annual Notice:

"Member Activities - Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort. Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings."​

This covers items such as the operation of the community halls and their activities, recreational activities at the pools, movies, publishing and distributing the Disney Files, and notices, including the Annual Notices.

I suspect events such as the Merry Mixer, Welcome Home Wednesday, and Mahalo Member Mingle are also funded, in part, by the Member Activities budget line item.

 

[dizfan]

So what are our member activity's?

Seems like they are charging us million and millions and nothing to show for it?

Here's how DVCNews describes Member Activities...

Member Activities - Cost of the quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings. Also includes the cost of certain Member recreational activities and events at the Resort.

DVCNews.com 2014 resort budget breakdown

 

[DenLo]

I expect those daily activities at 11 resorts really adds up.

 

[lovin'fl]

Resort 2015 2014 %Increase
------ ---- ---- ---------
AKV 6.30 5.97 5.51
BWV 6.07 6.01 1.06
HHI 6.52 6.28 3.81
OKW 5.84 5.54 5.36

My home resorts. Not real pleased with the OKW increase even though they are still my lowest MF of the bunch. AKV is also worrisome but expected because of the animals and we only have 100 points there but 200 at OKW. It may be time to sell the OKW...sooner rather than later.

 

[disneynutz]

So what are our member activity's?

Seems like they are charging us million and millions and nothing to show for it?

I asked DVC this question a couple of years ago and was told that it's every member activity and that sales aren't aggressively discussed because the function is paid for by the owners and not DVD.

It surprises me how many owners don't understand that they are the ones paying for these activities and I often wonder how many have never attended a mixer even though they are paying for it.

Bill

 

[DebbieB]

I was surprised that member activities were over $1 million at BWV.

 

[LisaS]

AKV is also worrisome but expected because of the animals

The cost of caring for the animals is projected to be slightly less in 2015 than it was in 2014 so it is not the cause of the dues increase at AKV. The property tax accounts for most of the increase:

In 2015, the budget line item for Animal Programs is actually going down compared to 2014. It was $0.3435 per point in 2014, and is budgeted for $0.3284 for 2015.

Ad Valorem Taxes seems to account for most of the increase in AKV's 2015 maintenance fees. Taxes are increasing 12.7%. If taxes had remained constant, AKV would have only had an increase of 2.88% from $5.9748 to $6.147.

 

[luckyman_apd]

This is where everyone gets carried away with numbers.

Stop comparing percentages....just stop.
This is the real info to look at.....all the other stuff is just a sampling of "how to lie with statistics"

BWV 0.07
VWL 0.10
BCV 0.18
SSR 0.26
BLT 0.27
OKW 0.30
AKV 0.31

These are the real money increases. Whatever they are doing at BCV,VWL,and BWV way to go...but as for the rest....they are all comparable. BLT is a 27 cent increase vs AKV with a 31 cent increase. I don't care what the percentages are...I would still pay more next year if I owned AKV or OKW. OKW & SSR are 5.5% & 5.4% and BLT seems higher at 5.66%....but they are all comparable.

BLT was an 6.39% raise last year if I remember correctly...but it was only about 28 cents in actual money. So 27 cents is really the same....$0.01 difference...but when you put those into a percentage....6.39% vs 5.66% makes you think it's significant, but it's only a penny per point less this year vs last year.

Bottom line, if the dues continue to go up $0.25 to $0.30 a year, it's NO DIFFERENT no matter what the percentage is. Percentage is only a relationship to what the original was. So don't freak out about percentages people.

 

[Missyrose]

This is where everyone gets carried away with numbers.

Stop comparing percentages....just stop.
This is the real info to look at.....all the other stuff is just a sampling of "how to lie with statistics"

BWV 0.07
VWL 0.10
BCV 0.18
SSR 0.26
BLT 0.27
OKW 0.30
AKV 0.31

These are the real money increases. Whatever they are doing at BCV,VWL,and BWV way to go...but as for the rest....they are all comparable. BLT is a 27 cent increase vs AKV with a 31 cent increase. I don't care what the percentages are...I would still pay more next year if I owned AKV or OKW. OKW & SSR are 5.5% & 5.4% and BLT seems higher at 5.66%....but they are all comparable.

BLT was an 6.39% raise last year if I remember correctly...but it was only about 28 cents in actual money. So 27 cents is really the same....$0.01 difference...but when you put those into a percentage....6.39% vs 5.66% makes you think it's significant, but it's only a penny per point less this year vs last year.

Bottom line, if the dues continue to go up $0.25 to $0.30 a year, it's NO DIFFERENT no matter what the percentage is. Percentage is only a relationship to what the original was. So don't freak out about percentages people.

No different in terms of actual numbers, but I believe many people discussing it here are talking about the multiple years of sizable jumps of BLT MFs, not just comparing percentages.

 

[luckyman_apd]

No different in terms of actual numbers, but I believe many people discussing it here are talking about the multiple years of sizable jumps of BLT MFs, not just comparing percentages.

The history of BLT dues increases are this.....$0.11, $0.11, $0.33, $0.28, 0.28, 0.27......

I think the anomaly is the first 2 years of increases until the resort was sold out. The last 3 years have been consistent (and a nickel more the year before that is not far off). Put I'm sure that ) 33 cents was HUGE percentage increase...with each subsequent year looking big too but each year a little less % than the one before.

Point is for 4 straight years....BLT has had a pretty consistent dues increases. but the percentages would be really high that first year...with each subsequent year slightly less the prior year....even though the $ amount is relatively even.

Looking over the history of other resorts....BLT does seem to average about $0.10 higher than most other resorts over the time period (except AKV), but it also started significantly lower than all other resorts. The thing I suspect is that it was artificially low to start, but now that it's in line with the others...I doubt it will continue to skyrocket above them. It's still the lowest dues of any resort, and if it has the same $ increase as another resort...the percentage will always look higher.

 

[twinklebug]

As an AKV owner I'd just like to say: The increase was certainly expected, but ouch.

I would guess the Merry Mixers and the pool activities.

I vote to drop the pool parties, the sooner, the better. Buy a few inflatable balls and pop them in the pool if the kiddos really need something to entertain them. (We're in Disney world! Why do kids need more than that?)

The nightly movies can go too. Make everyone who wants to see a movie and a campfire go over the Fort where the idea originated. They do it right there anyway.

 

[Simba's Mom]

The nightly movies can go too. Make everyone who wants to see a movie and a campfire go over the Fort where the idea originated. They do it right there anyway.

A couple other questions about those movies on the beach. What do they do at places like BCV, where the movies on the beach are for non-DVC members (the Y&BC) as well? And for that matter, if our dues are paying for even a portion of the movies on the beach, why are the movies open to anyone from anywhere? For example, I remember being at one DVC resort, watching the movie on the beach/by the pool and got talking with a family who'd just driven there to see the movie and were driving back to their resort afterwards. No one checks where you're staying, and since I didn't know our dues were paying for the movie, I must confess I didn't say anything, or even think to. One time I'd transferred from a DVC resort to non-DVC, but I still had the activity sheet, so I went back to the DVC resort to see the movie. No one asked where I was staying.

 

[DebbieB]

I doubt DVC is paying the full amount for pool activities and movies at the shared resorts, it's probably a percentage based on the room split. I was at BWV 3 weeks ago and they had movies on the lawn, first time I've seen them there. There were a few people there each night. I think there would be an outcry if resorts started eliminating family activities to save a few cents on dues.

The expense is going to be the same if 1 person attends the movie or 50, so it will not make a difference if a couple outsiders attend, they probably figure they may spend money on food and drink.

 

[DenLo]

A couple other questions about those movies on the beach. What do they do at places like BCV, where the movies on the beach are for non-DVC members (the Y&BC) as well? And for that matter, if our dues are paying for even a portion of the movies on the beach, why are the movies open to anyone from anywhere? For example, I remember being at one DVC resort, watching the movie on the beach/by the pool and got talking with a family who'd just driven there to see the movie and were driving back to their resort afterwards. No one checks where you're staying, and since I didn't know our dues were paying for the movie, I must confess I didn't say anything, or even think to. One time I'd transferred from a DVC resort to non-DVC, but I still had the activity sheet, so I went back to the DVC resort to see the movie. No one asked where I was staying.

At any resort that is a combination DVC and a Disney cash resort, a formula is used based on the number of guests staying at each resort for the year to figure the costs each pays. Keep in mind DVC villas hold more guests and yes children count as guests. And since many of the activities are for children it makes even more sense to count them. Outside guests aren't counted, but I really doubt the volume is that large, many of them probably had dined at the resort and then stayed to enjoy the activities. So in Disney's and DVC's opinion let them see how great the resort would be to stay at.

To me all of these activities is what makes a DVC resort different from a regular timeshare. I have no children and therefore will not have grandchildren, but I still think it a wonderful idea. I expect one of the biggest items that increased the cost of the activities category is the salaries for the life guards. Disney increased the numbers after the deaths of 2 children from drowning (one on a DCL ship) and serious injuries of a third. Last year was the first full year of the increased number of guards working extra hours.

 

[KingRichard]

The history of BLT dues increases are this.....$0.11, $0.11, $0.33, $0.28, 0.28, 0.27......

I think the anomaly is the first 2 years of increases until the resort was sold out. The last 3 years have been consistent (and a nickel more the year before that is not far off). Put I'm sure that ) 33 cents was HUGE percentage increase...with each subsequent year looking big too but each year a little less % than the one before.

Point is for 4 straight years....BLT has had a pretty consistent dues increases. but the percentages would be really high that first year...with each subsequent year slightly less the prior year....even though the $ amount is relatively even.

Looking over the history of other resorts....BLT does seem to average about $0.10 higher than most other resorts over the time period (except AKV), but it also started significantly lower than all other resorts. The thing I suspect is that it was artificially low to start, but now that it's in line with the others...I doubt it will continue to skyrocket above them. It's still the lowest dues of any resort, and if it has the same $ increase as another resort...the percentage will always look higher.

Remember that BLT didn't have a front desk and now they have 3-4 people standing around all day!

Good point about lifeguards also.

We were at AKV and they had the marshmallows roast and it was done in 15 minutes or less. Everyone missed it!