need to vent, church related issues

[momz]

Honestly, I'm coming here to vent because I can be anonymous.

There is a lot going on with the church I attend. We are moving to a new facility in the early fall. Also, our new building will be host to a childcare company which will benefit our church financially.

Our church is aging. Any given Sunday sees the majority of attendees over age 50+. There seems to be excitement about the move and people talk about wanting to "attract" young adults and families. But...when it comes down to wanting to "serve" this age group, every idea that's been thrown out gets squashed by the oldies. I am so frustrated and am starting to feel like this congregation is all talk and little to no action.

There are things that we've done for years, but don't require much in the way of commitment. Like the once a year school supply drive. There are other things that used be done, but they've stopped because of various reasons. The current excuse for not having a vacation Bible School is that the building we are using is no longer ours (sold to a different church who is graciously letting us continue using it on Sunday mornings until we move). I mean, I get that, but considering we are not paying rent, could we secure an offsite location for VBS this year, it's only a week? Apparently not.

Ideas that "won't work", according to the oldies:
quarterly feminine hygiene products drive
fishing derby for kids, could be as little as one Saturday a year!
After school tutoring once weekly (our new place is across the street from the middle school, kids would have to sign up based on the number of volunteers we have)
English lessons (we have immigrants in our city, could pay a teacher to come in for this)
Alcoholics Anonymous
Hosting a group such as scouts, youth choir, or youth theater...we don't have the facilities for sports.

There could be more. But every thing gets shot down...there's always some excuse.

I hate to see this. My eyes are opening to the bigotry in this congregation. There seems to be an "us" and "them" type attitude. Meaning the people of the congregation are a "club" unto themselves and while they say they want share their beliefs with others. I don't see it happening. I see the oldies wanting to control the demographic that they are willing to accept, it is very discouraging.

I hope and pray that there are enough of us that want to make a difference in our community to be able to stand up to these old farts and just do things anyway. And the old farts can become out voted by people how are excited to serve others.

Otherwise. I'll move on. I'm really starting to think along those lines anyway.

 

[holden]

Sorry to hear you aren't happy there. I agree with you that perhaps it's time to find a new church.

I'm not very religious, but there are many churches around us that have a wonderful sense of community among all age groups and lifestyles. If I was a regular church-goer I'd look for a place like that.

 

[Southernmiss]

Honestly, I'm coming here to vent because I can be anonymous.

There is a lot going on with the church I attend. We are moving to a new facility in the early fall. Also, our new building will be host to a childcare company which will benefit our church financially.

Our church is aging. Any given Sunday sees the majority of attendees over age 50+. There seems to be excitement about the move and people talk about wanting to "attract" young adults and families. But...when it comes down to wanting to "serve" this age group, every idea that's been thrown out gets squashed by the oldies. I am so frustrated and am starting to feel like this congregation is all talk and little to no action.

There are things that we've done for years, but don't require much in the way of commitment. Like the once a year school supply drive. There are other things that used be done, but they've stopped because of various reasons. The current excuse for not having a vacation Bible School is that the building we are using is no longer ours (sold to a different church who is graciously letting us continue using it on Sunday mornings until we move). I mean, I get that, but considering we are not paying rent, could we secure an offsite location for VBS this year, it's only a week? Apparently not.

Ideas that "won't work", according to the oldies:
quarterly feminine hygiene products drive
fishing derby for kids, could be as little as one Saturday a year!
After school tutoring once weekly (our new place is across the street from the middle school, kids would have to sign up based on the number of volunteers we have)
English lessons (we have immigrants in our city, could pay a teacher to come in for this)
Alcoholics Anonymous
Hosting a group such as scouts, youth choir, or youth theater...we don't have the facilities for sports.

There could be more. But every thing gets shot down...there's always some excuse.

I hate to see this. My eyes are opening to the bigotry in this congregation. There seems to be an "us" and "them" type attitude. Meaning the people of the congregation are a "club" unto themselves and while they say they want share their beliefs with others. I don't see it happening. I see the oldies wanting to control the demographic that they are willing to accept, it is very discouraging.

I hope and pray that there are enough of us that want to make a difference in our community to be able to stand up to these old farts and just do things anyway. And the old farts can become out voted by people how are excited to serve others.

Otherwise. I'll move on. I'm really starting to think along those lines anyway.

How big is your congregation?

Are there other people who are like minded as you?

Are there enough people who can organize and volunteer for the activities that you propose?

Does your church have the funding to provide these ministries?

Lots of great ideas there, but without people willing to step up, I'm not sure what you can do.

In our church of about 400 households, we often find that people have great ideas that they want the church to provide, but they don't want to do the work to make it happen. There's a lot of "I wish our church would x,y, and z." But when we ask for volunteers for the existing necessary ministries, we often fall short of our goal. And then it's the same folks doing everything.

Also, with kids there are child protection restrictions to follow and liability insurances that have to be thought about in case of incidents.

 

[DLgal]

As someone who is not religious and doesn't go to church:

Find a new church or alternately, find another way to feel a sense of community/belonging that is not affiliated with a church. There are numerous ways to get out in the community and join a group of like minded people. What you are seeing in your church is extremely common. If it is upsetting you, this church is no longer the right fit.

The truth is that the share of younger people who are identifying as religious is dropping significantly over time. It will be hard to attract them simply because their numbers are dwindling. I'm not going to comment on that except to say that I fully understand the why behind it, but I can tell you that as a non religious person, I actively avoid any community events that take place at churches precisely because I don't want anyone attempting to recruit me and my family to attend church services when I am attending a non religious event. I find it extremely invasive and annoying.

 

[momz]

How big is your congregation?

Are there other people who are like minded as you?

Are there enough people who can organize and volunteer for the activities that you propose?

Does your church have the funding to provide these ministries?

Lots of great ideas there, but without people willing to step up, I'm not sure what you can do.

In our church of about 400 households, we often find that people have great ideas that they want the church to provide, but they don't want to do the work to make it happen. There's a lot of "I wish our church would x,y, and z." But when we ask for volunteers for the existing necessary ministries, we often fall short of our goal. And then it's the same folks doing everything.

Also, with kids there are child protection restrictions to follow and liability insurances that have to be thought about in case of incidents.

My husband and I joined this church maybe 6-7 years ago and attended as our kids went through high school. It was great during those years. But now, they numbers have taken a nose dive. Some of this coincided with covid, but we haven't bounced back. We have 90-100 attending on Sunday morning. pre-covid we had twice that and more.

We do require background checks on anybody who is with the kids. Also, we have strict rules about not allowing one adult to be present with the kids, there always has to be two. That type of thing.

We also suffer from the problem of volunteer burn out. People get spread too thin. Currently, my husband coordinates the tech booth, managing a handful of people who run the sound board and the live stream. Unfortunately, many people want him to be able to perform miracles with equipment that is obsolete and internet that is not stable (the church who now owns the building didn't pay the bill so we were without internet the last 2 weeks). yet he has to field complaints about the quality.

I had been leading the high schoolers on Sunday mornings for the last 4-5 years. But, I have to work about one Sunday a month. Recently, I lost my substitute, he didn't want to do it anymore. And the youth pastor decided to end the program, because he also doesn't want to be the substitute...seriously, can't make this up... But, it was being attending by the few remaining high schoolers. We would have 10-15 every Sunday. He said that we are cutting it out because we won't be continuing it at the new building anyway.

So, I'm left with nowhere to serve. The current committees don't want any help. But, honestly the programs don't appeal all that much to me anyway. So, a friend and I have thrown out these ideas to the diaconate. We are getting nowhere.

 

[Brian Noble]

I hope and pray that there are enough of us that want to make a difference in our community [...] Otherwise. I'll move on

It is always hard to balance spending the energy to fight to improve something you care about vs. finding a better fit. Neither is necessarily the right answer. When I'm stuck with these stay-and-fight-or-go challenges, my mentors remind me that my job is to engage in discernment, and the right thing to do will eventually become clear.

The truth is that the share of younger people who are identifying as religious is dropping significantly over time.

I think that is true. On the other hand, this cohort seems very interested in spirituality. And when I write that, I don't mean new-age/crystals/etc. I mean genuinely looking for meaning in life beyond themselves and what they see around them.

However, what is interesting in this cohort is that they can smell BS a mile away, and they aren't afraid to call it what it is. If a faith community is not walking the walk, that community has little to no hope of attracting younger members, or keeping the ones they have. Getting an existing community of folks to understand that usually means embracing a very large dose of organizational humility if it is not already there. And that usually doesn't happen without an existential threat.

I actively avoid any community events that take place at churches precisely because I don't want anyone attempting to recruit me and my family to attend church services when I am attending a non religious event.

One of the most powerful guiding principles of an organization I spend time with is that they are based on "attraction not promotion." They will tell you (and often show you) what it is like to live this way. You are welcome to try it or not, and that's entirely up to you.

One of the reasons why this seems to work is based on a couple of other guiding principles: At the local level, It tends to avoid much organization, does not own property, eschews "leadership" in favor of service, and has no professional/paid positions. When there is no money, fame, or power to be had, it's easy not to get wrapped around the recruiting axle.

The only real problem is that to really give it a try requires a large dose of personal humility--and much as with organizations, most people have to go through a pretty big crisis to get to the point where this sounds like a good idea.

 

[momz]

As someone who is not religious and doesn't go to church:

Find a new church or alternately, find another way to feel a sense of community/belonging that is not affiliated with a church. There are numerous ways to get out in the community and join a group of like minded people. What you are seeing in your church is extremely common. If it is upsetting you, this church is no longer the right fit.

The truth is that the share of younger people who are identifying as religious is dropping significantly over time. It will be hard to attract them simply because their numbers are dwindling. I'm not going to comment on that except to say that I fully understand the why behind it, but I can tell you that as a non religious person, I actively avoid any community events that take place at churches precisely because I don't want anyone attempting to recruit me and my family to attend church services when I am attending a non religious event. I find it extremely invasive and annoying.

I am not offended in the least. And I totally get it. This is exactly why I am interested in serving in ways that have no strings attached. The current culture of organized religion makes it extremely difficult for a person who has an interest to walk through the front door. It is not inviting, let alone nurturing. Plus, people have needs regardless of their religion.

You are correct that finding somewhere secular to volunteer may be the answer for me. non the less, I think I am grieving that my beliefs are not reflected in the community where I've been worshipping.

 

[tvguy]

@Southernmiss asked the most important question. How big is your congregation? My mom left her long time church of less than 50 members (it once was over 200) for a church with 1,000 because the bigger church offered more things for her to participate in. Does your church have the money and volunteers to run those programs?
But these days, Churches basically are places whose "customer" base IS Seniors. So services are going to be geared to that age group.
I will say the tutoring can be complicated if the school is a public school. First, they generally don't want to get involved with anything tied to a religion. Second, it can jeopardize their federal funding for tutoring because your tutor may not meet the standards of the federal grant, and having two different styles of tutoring can be confusing. And third, the Unions won't allow it in the district I live in. Their contracts require all tutors to be district employees and union members.

 

[firefly_ris]

I don't have any advice but I just have empathy. My husband and I ran a successful Family Fun Night at the beginning of the year and just ran a Cornhole Tournament last week. People are always appreciative and have fun and ask what the next event will be. I reach out for help and I do get it, but it's always the same 5 people stepping up to help me; it is hard to get new people to step up. They keep putting out feelers on getting a new Youth Ministry leader so that it's not just us flying by the seat of our pants, but not many parents want to lead or organize. It doesn't help that everyone is so over-scheduled these days on top of it. So our problem isn't really the older group squashing ideas, it's getting people to help lead and not just participate in the events, even though I'm glad we do get good turnout at the events.

 

[kymom99]

I belonged my whole life to one small catholic parish. Every mass was packed. It was wonderful. We got a priest assigned who was awful. People left in droves. I held out as long as I could then I left too. I’m so glad I did.

I do notice fewer young people coming to church and helping at events. But we do try to offer things and do outreach. If the leadership doesn’t share your vision, I’m afraid you are wasting your time.

 

[Simba's Mom]

As someone who lives 15 minutes from the US-Mexico border, I like the idea if English lessons, or conversely, basic Spanish lessons (and if your area's like ours, lots of people will volunteer to teach that).
What about having the school supply drive more than once a year-like mid-year.
Some sort of food drive, maybe just over the holidays?

 

[momz]

@Southernmiss asked the most important question. How big is your congregation? My mom left her long time church of less than 50 members (it once was over 200) for a church with 1,000 because the bigger church offered more things for her to participate in. Does your church have the money and volunteers to run those programs?
But these days, Churches basically are places whose "customer" base IS Seniors. So services are going to be geared to that age group.
I will say the tutoring can be complicated if the school is a public school. First, they generally don't want to get involved with anything tied to a religion. Second, it can jeopardize their federal funding for tutoring because your tutor may not meet the standards of the federal grant, and having two different styles of tutoring can be confusing. And third, the Unions won't allow it in the district I live in. Their contracts require all tutors to be district employees and union members.

I don't have a problem when there is a valid explanation as to why something won't work. This makes total sense.

 

[Praying Colonel]

We moved in 2021 and we miss our church so much. It was a great combo of "olds" and "youngs" and there was something there for everyone in terms of worship, outreach and fellowship. I've come to realize in the almost 2 years we've been gone that it's hard to find something that wonderful.

 

[lanejudy]

Oh my gosh this sounds so familiar. We've been there, done that. In hindsight...I should have left sooner. I wasted a lot of time and energy hoping for things to improve. One difference is I still had a Sunday School age kid, and I feel she really was the loser in the situation and why I wish I'd made the change sooner. Covid made things even harder.

You know the people. If you are getting push back, it is unlikely to get better. To attract the younger generation there needs to be a willingness to embrace change. So many churches have been struggling with the same thing for many years now. If you really prefer to remain with this congregation and able to do your volunteering outside the church, that's definitely an option. But since you are questioning the situation, then I think you already know the right answer. It's not easy.

Good luck!

 

[_19disnA]

Most communities have lots of volunteer opportunitites that aren't related to a specific chruch/denomination. It is probably a better use of your time to seek those out instead of trying to continue to change the opinions of those in your church who sound set in their ways.

 

[Southernmiss]

The concerns that you raise are very real concerns and are being experienced by churches all over the world on how to do church in a post Covid world.

The people in the pews for many reasons have not come back, and may not come back.

Other people have gotten use to watching services on tv and are quite complacent to do so and with high expectations that what they see is just like watching any other high quality multi dollar program with production teams and lots of money.

Our church had to spend a massive amount of money to upgrade our internet abilities and then purchase equipment in order to stream the services. And people still don't understand that those streaming the service are a small handful of volunteers. And when they are not available, the service can not be streamed. And yet they complain! Because many churches scrambled to offer streaming during Covid, it's now expected.

With an attendance of 90-100 people, I wonder if the church leadership is taking the church in a different ministerial direction than you are used to when they had double the attendance. And maybe those changes are not ready to be made public and that's why you feel like your ideas are just being shot down. The loss of attendees probably means a loss of donations and the $ may not be there for many programs.

I do agree, that if your soul isn't happy, it may be time to explore another church home.

 

[momz]

As someone who lives 15 minutes from the US-Mexico border, I like the idea if English lessons, or conversely, basic Spanish lessons (and if your area's like ours, lots of people will volunteer to teach that).
What about having the school supply drive more than once a year-like mid-year.
Some sort of food drive, maybe just over the holidays?

The food drive has been proposed, also we asked to build a box out front for non perishable donations. I'm told that the community already has food pantries and people get benefits for that. For real... so that's when we came up with the feminine products drive, because food pantries don't have that, and snap benefits don't cover it either. But the old folks say that's "not discrete". honest to goodness. This is a real need for many women, but the oldies are uncomfortable acknowledging that women have needs.

There is always some excuse. They don't want to host the scouts because of "liability"...huh? And alcoholics anonymous because they don't want people with "that kind of problem". For freaking real! Fishing derby, they are entertaining this, but for congregants, not for community out reach. English classes, they don't want to have to pay somebody. I don't know that someone within our congregation has the training for that, but also, that's kind of a big ask for a volunteer. And, come on, how expensive could it be? We're not talking an entire faculty of teachers here.

What they do want to do: Women's Bible study, men's Bible study, Youth group on Sunday evenings, choir, send cards and gift bags with candy to college students within our congregation, visit the shut ins, send specific people on "mission trips" (that's an entirely separate conversation...I don't see how those $$$ work best vs, just paying someone local to that particular "mission". They are doing things like yard work and painting, but apparently you have to fly people half way around the world to do these tasks vs giving a local person a job for a week....but I digress). Things that help people in our own community aren't as "popular" as the out of country missions. This one gets under my skin because it's always the same people who go, then they come back with pictures showing them reading stories, playing soccer and on the beach...Mission trip, right.

We're talking things that have little to no cost to do here, a fishing derby costs nothing if you can borrow people's poles. A box for non perishable food items out front, come on, that's not a lot of money. always some excuse.

 

[tzolkin]

Our church is aging. Any given Sunday sees the majority of attendees over age 50+. There seems to be excitement about the move and people talk about wanting to "attract" young adults and families. But...when it comes down to wanting to "serve" this age group, every idea that's been thrown out gets squashed by the oldies. I am so frustrated and am starting to feel like this congregation is all talk and little to no action.

When I was a young mom in my mid-20s, I had many similar interactions at our church. I would participate or volunteer at various church events and be the only person under the age of 70. During planning or discussion sessions, all eyes would be on me as the group would ask all sorts of questions about ideas for how to attract young families or ask my thoughts on why young people were leaving the church. I would give what I thought to be quite insightful responses or suggestions (I was an academic with a degree in Religion who also worked in the Sociology & Anthropology department so I thought I had at least some idea what humans seek to find in faith communities), but literally every single thing that I said would immediately be dismissed. "No, that's not why." "That won't work." "That's not what young people are interested in."

To attract the younger generation there needs to be a willingness to embrace change.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, this is also likely the reason why all of the OP's ideas have been "squashed by the oldies".

I think I am grieving that my beliefs are not reflected in the community where I've been worshipping.

This was why we ultimately had to break ties with our more recent church a few years ago. We joined the church when we had relocated across country and were extremely involved on a daily basis so it was our entire social circle, our outlet for volunteering, my place of employment, and our surrogate family. It was a heart-wrenching separation and long grieving process, but it was much healthier in the long run.

 

[cvjw]

Find a different church. We left our Methodist church several years ago for the large, non denominational church close to our house. Our church does all the things you mentioned wanting to do and lots more. It is growing by leaps and bounds and we had to build a larger kids area because we have so many young families attending. Look around. Better churches are out there!

 

[VandVsmama]

Honestly, I'm coming here to vent because I can be anonymous.

There is a lot going on with the church I attend. We are moving to a new facility in the early fall. Also, our new building will be host to a childcare company which will benefit our church financially.

Our church is aging. Any given Sunday sees the majority of attendees over age 50+. There seems to be excitement about the move and people talk about wanting to "attract" young adults and families. But...when it comes down to wanting to "serve" this age group, every idea that's been thrown out gets squashed by the oldies. I am so frustrated and am starting to feel like this congregation is all talk and little to no action.

There are things that we've done for years, but don't require much in the way of commitment. Like the once a year school supply drive. There are other things that used be done, but they've stopped because of various reasons. The current excuse for not having a vacation Bible School is that the building we are using is no longer ours (sold to a different church who is graciously letting us continue using it on Sunday mornings until we move). I mean, I get that, but considering we are not paying rent, could we secure an offsite location for VBS this year, it's only a week? Apparently not.

Ideas that "won't work", according to the oldies:
quarterly feminine hygiene products drive
fishing derby for kids, could be as little as one Saturday a year!
After school tutoring once weekly (our new place is across the street from the middle school, kids would have to sign up based on the number of volunteers we have)
English lessons (we have immigrants in our city, could pay a teacher to come in for this)
Alcoholics Anonymous
Hosting a group such as scouts, youth choir, or youth theater...we don't have the facilities for sports.

There could be more. But every thing gets shot down...there's always some excuse.

I hate to see this. My eyes are opening to the bigotry in this congregation. There seems to be an "us" and "them" type attitude. Meaning the people of the congregation are a "club" unto themselves and while they say they want share their beliefs with others. I don't see it happening. I see the oldies wanting to control the demographic that they are willing to accept, it is very discouraging.

I hope and pray that there are enough of us that want to make a difference in our community to be able to stand up to these old farts and just do things anyway. And the old farts can become out voted by people how are excited to serve others.

Otherwise. I'll move on. I'm really starting to think along those lines anyway.

Find a different church to attend. Yours is dying.

** edited to add **
If you want to get involved in your local community, then there are still a bunch of other non-church ways to do that. For example:

• contact the middle school across the street from new church location. Offer to tutor after school a couple of days a week (if your schedule allows it).
• contact other local churches in the area and arrange to do a multi-church feminine products & diaper drive. Then you pick up all of the donations and deliver to a local women's shelter or food pantry.
• sign up as a mentor for your local Big Brothers Big Sisters organization.

...you get the idea. Be the change that you want to see in the world and others will follow.