Splash Mountain Characters Also Retired?

[BrianL]

As i mentioned all the main Disney animal characters are white. Mickey, Minnie, goofy, Donald and daisy. The only one who isn’t is a pet (Pluto). Then of the main characters only Pooh is an animal of color.
Bernard and Roo are also animals of color but are further down the Totem pole (“racist”) of Disney cinematic universe.

Is this racist?
Well Disney was just making Anthropomorphic Animal charterers in his likeness. And he just happened to be white. Idea being kids and humans relate more to those who have human attributes (see cars characters)

But in terms of now it’s not diverse and inclusive when all the main Disney characters are white. People of color are left gravitating to Pooh. While white peole still don’t notice things like this.

Do we get rid of Mickey or change his appearance? I think that’s silly.
But when you start canceling stuff like SoS then your are headed in that Direction.
It’s just virtue signalling.

There’s no reason you can’t have Splash and Tiana rides.

And the bigger issue is Disney greed which is pricing out minorities who are disproportionately poor from even going to Disney world or splash/Tiana

Waitaminute, waitaminute, waitaminute - Winnie the Pooh is not "white"? I mean, I don't think of him as having a race other than "bear," but why is it that he is an "animal of color," or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Pooh's World]

Waitaminute, waitaminute, waitaminute - Winnie the Pooh is not "white"? I mean, I don't think of him as having a race other than "bear," but why is it that he is an "animal of color," or am I misunderstanding you?

Cause he’s orange all over.

Where as Mickey, Minnie, goofey have white flesh colored faces somehow when the rest of their body is black so can’t be an animal of color

Donald and daisy are white with blue or in Daisy case blue-violet eyes.

Pluto the pet is orange. Which doesn’t make sense that he’s a pet when they are all animals, but it’s understood he’s less human and more pet. I guess he can’t talk.

 

[starlite_]

A direct quote from you:
Why are they offensive to you? Maybe it should be addressed.

What if I find it offensive? Now you are discounting my concerns. Maybe you should approach it like the poster above your reply and you would be taken more seriously by me.

I am not talking to you here tho. I asked BrianL, because he is interesting to debate with.

If you brought up genuine concerns then sure, I would debate with you too, but just throwing it out there as a gotcha makes you look very very silly.

 

[BrianL]

Cause he’s orange all over.

Where as Mickey, Minnie, goofey have white flesh colored faces somehow when the rest of their body is black so can’t be an animal of color

Donald and daisy are white with blue or in Daisy case blue-violet eyes.

Pluto the pet is orange. Which doesn’t make sense that he’s a pet when they are all animals, but it’s understood he’s less human and more pet. I guess he can’t talk.

But that's fur. He has orange fur. You may as well apply that to any character with head to toe fur, like Chip & Dale. Or even Donald Duck - he is covered in feathers other than beak and legs/feet. It's essentially hair color.

Honestly, I don't think that a "race" is ascribed to any of the anthropomorphic characters at all really. In early depictions, Mickey is black and pure white, not a flesh-toned color, even in early color cartoons.

 

[xipotec]

Eh , not sure how much of these questions are serious.

Clearly a few folks here have a problem with change to be inclusive as a general principal.

I once again reiterate my earlier comment.

”What does it cost you to be more understanding?”

The underlying problem is somehow by being more inclusive it somehow negates them as a person or race or culture. I have never seen this to be a huge problem overall.

As far as the fab 5 go. I never have seen them as white, I doubt the majority see Mickey mouse and say “he is white” or honestly ever think of that question.

What race is Oswald?



He is the Lucky Rabbit race…in other word, NON racial.

In all the other examples we are discussing , the character, in question, is human. So thats a huge difference.

When it comes to the animated characters from Splash (SOTS) they are not inherently racist, the film however is. Its hard to separate that in a large portion of our fellow citizens minds. Which causes them offense.

I have seen the bad faith argument used that “insert some ridicules thing” is offensive to ME. Well I may people are offended by things. I personally hate Stinkbugs, they offend me on a deep level. But , that may not be societies view, and since its a rare and unfounded offense, its going to be ignored.

But once again, if we really want to call America a society that mean we need to TRY to be inclusive and understanding to everyone that joins the melting pot that we are. That if we really care about becoming a just society that care for each other OR an everyman for himself and deal with it kind of group.

I choose the former.

 

[starlite_]

Oh, I know that. I'm a lifelong comic fan, and they are a drop int he bucket compared to teh exposure of a theme park ride or anything on Disney+ but it was just a good example to me of how this can be seen so differently. A few years back they did a story in the comics that established a mutant nation - the X-Men are mutants who have often been "feared and hated" by normal humans. It's always been allegory. This story took it so far as to state that the mutants, the X-Men, gave up on "peaceful coexistence" and not hate all humans. They are not welcom in their nation. Cyclops went so far as to tell a member of the Fantastic Four that one of their children was less valuable because they were human (the other is a mutant). It is generally nonstop hateful rhetoric, and it is considered justified because of the years of opperession. I think the creators at Marvel see it as such, but it's a ridiculous, and quite frankly offensive premise. You can't fight hate with hate.

For the record, I support diversity and inclusion and trying not to offend people too - always. But, these things are actually complicated and I think questions are valid. I don't think there's only one way to tackle the issues either. Dialogue is welcome and necessary.

As a tired minority, I honestly saw that whole arc as a power fantasy. Why would I want to share my utopia space with my oppresors? Why should the mutant nation have to share their space that they created for themselves with those who have tried to kill them time and time again? As far as I remember they did not take a space from homosapiens, they left and made their own and simply not allowed their oppresors in.

I do agree that Cyclops' comment was out of line, and I wonder if it was a way to make him act like an *** so the minority looked like the bad guys. If so it certainly worked considering you, as a homosapiens, are offended by a minorities' power fantasy.

 

[Pooh's World]

But that's fur. He has orange fur. You may as well apply that to any character with head to toe fur, like Chip & Dale. Or even Donald Duck - he is covered in feathers other than beak and legs/feet. It's essentially hair color.

Honestly, I don't think that a "race" is ascribed to any of the anthropomorphic characters at all really. In early depictions, Mickey is black and pure white, not a flesh-toned color, even in early color cartoons.

Really looks at Mickeys face. The face is flesh colored white. That’s the Mickey everyone has grown up with:

https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Mickey_Mouse

Donald does have white fur all over but also blue eyes which rules out people of color.

So Pooh, Roo, Bernard (though it could ne debated if he is an animal of color) and a couple others are the only ones that people of color can take ownership over in Disney animal cinematic universe.

 

[Pooh's World]

Eh , not sure how much of these questions are serious.

Clearly a few folks here have a problem with change to be inclusive as a general principal.

I once again reiterate my earlier comment.

”What does it cost you to be more understanding?”

The underlying problem is somehow by being more inclusive it somehow negates them as a person or race or culture. I have never seen this to be a huge problem overall.

As far as the fab 5 go. I never have seen them as white, I doubt the majority see Mickey mouse and say “he is white” or honestly ever think of that question.

What race is Oswald?

View attachment 743064

He is the Lucky Rabbit race…in other word, NON racial.

In all the other examples we are discussing , the character, in question, is human. So thats a huge difference.

When it comes to the animated characters from Splash (SOTS) they are not inherently racist, the film however is. Its hard to separate that in a large portion of our fellow citizens minds. Which causes them offense.

I have seen the bad faith argument used that “insert some ridicules thing” is offensive to ME. Well I may people are offended by things. I personally hate Stinkbugs, they offend me on a deep level. But , that may not be societies view, and since its a rare and unfounded offense, its going to be ignored.

But once again, if we really want to call America a society that mean we need to TRY to be inclusive and understanding to everyone that joins the melting pot that we are. That if we really care about becoming a just society that care for each other OR an everyman for himself and deal with it kind of group.

I choose the former.

Once again this is from the dominant majoritys point of view. You won’t notice these things.

 

[BrianL]

Eh , not sure how much of these questions are serious.
Clearly a few folks here have a problem with change to be inclusive as a general principal.
I once again reiterate my earlier comment.

”What does it cost you to be more understanding?”
The underlying problem is somehow by being more inclusive it somehow negates them as a person or race or culture. I have never seen this to be a huge problem overall.

As far as the fab 5 go. I never have seen them as white, I doubt the majority see Mickey mouse and say “he is white” or honestly ever think of that question.

What race is Oswald?

View attachment 743064

He is the Lucky Rabbit race…in other word, NON racial.

In all the other examples we are discussing , the character, in question, is human. So thats a huge difference.
When it comes to the animated characters from Splash (SOTS) they are not inherently racist, the film however is. Its hard to separate that in a large oortion of our fellow citizens minds. Which causes them offense.

I have seen the bad faith argument used that “insert some ridicules thing” is offensive to ME. Well may people are offended by things. I personally hate Stinkbugs, they offend me on a deep level. But , that may not be societies view, and since its a rare and unfounded offense, its going to be ignored.

But once again, if we really want to call America a society that mean we need to TRY to be inclusive and understanding to everyone that joins the melting pot that we are. That if we really care about becoming a just society that care for each other OR an everyman for himself and deal with it kind of group.

I choose the former.

That is well said. I would ask though, as people name any "ridiculous thing" as offensive - is is always warranted? I do legitimately find the premise of current X-Men comics offensive - but I'm also not calling for them to remove the Storm ride or the Wolverine meet & greet at Universal. There are many factors to consider, and yes, we should be sensitive, but that doesn't always mean the path to doing so will always be the same.

 

[mdmost]

There's a lot of whataboutism in this discussion now which makes it border on absurd and will probably get this thread shut down like all the rest before it. I'm glad most are ignoring the obvious trolling by one particular person. Disney took the film out of rotation a long time ago for a reason. It was never released in the United States on home video/DVD for a reason. Someone asked earlier why Walt isn't cancelled. Well, he's a person. Not a creation. Creations get remade, discarded, shelved, cancelled, and sometimes brought back all the time. I enjoyed the ride. I enjoyed the song. I saw the movie when I was a kid. I rewatched it with adult eyes a few years ago via a torrent and I have no issue with Disney saying it's time to move on from it.

 

[xipotec]

Really looks at Mickeys face. The face is flesh colored white. That’s the Mickey everyone has grown up with:

https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Mickey_Mouse

Donald does have white fur all over but also blue eyes which rules out people of color.

So Pooh, Roo, Bernard (though it could ne debated if he is an animal of color) and a couple others are the only ones that people of color can take ownership over in Disney animal cinematic universe.

Oof. Sorry but I never see animal of any kind as a race……

No matter what the color.

What race is Stitch?
Poo?
Nemo?
Lighting Mcqueen?
Baymax?

Curious what you think?

 

[BrianL]

As a tired minority, I honestly saw that whole arc as a power fantasy. Why would I want to share my utopia space with my oppresors? Why should the mutant nation have to share their space that they created for themselves with those who have tried to kill them time and time again? As far as I remember they did not take a space from homosapiens, they left and made their own and simply not allowed their oppresors in.

I do agree that Cyclops' comment was out of line, and I wonder if it was a way to make him act like an *** so the minority looked like the bad guys. If so it certainly worked considering you, as a homosapiens, are offended by a minorities' power fantasy.

It's no "power fantasy" it's just making all mutants into jerks. They were so sanctimonious and condescending. They lie to humans. They hate them. They don't want to be near them. Oh, but we won't kill you and we'll save the world because we pity you and we live on it too. We can't die. We have EVERYTHING. You have NOTHING. We have a Utopia! A utopia where we will torture and shame-walk our OWN citizens if they don't toe the line 100%. A utopia that will give people like Apocalypse and Mister Sinister free reign to do ANYTHING becuast THEY are MUTANTS and mutants CAN NEVER DO ANY WRONG. And if you question it you are RACIST.

Seriously - who thought that was a good idea? Who thought that would make them into likeable characters? Setting up Magneto as one of the leaders is problematic anyway - he's a monster. I guess I could never understand how the X-Men, who used to stand against predjudice and racism, gravitated to the "Magneto is right" side. Magneto is not right and he never was. The idea that he even could be is indeed, the word of the day, offensive.

End of rant. Sorry.

 

[Pooh's World]

Oof. Sorry but I never see animal of any kind as a race……

No matter what the color.

What race is Stitch?
Poo?
Nemo?
Lighting Mcqueen?

Stich = Alien who doesn’t speak so kind of like a pet not human

Pooh =
Animal of color

Nemo = fish
Non bipedal animal

Lighting McQueen = Blue eyes so white

And that’s the point though you wouldn’t notice.

 

[BrianL]

Really looks at Mickeys face. The face is flesh colored white. That’s the Mickey everyone has grown up with:

https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Mickey_Mouse

Donald does have white fur all over but also blue eyes which rules out people of color.

So Pooh, Roo, Bernard (though it could ne debated if he is an animal of color) and a couple others are the only ones that people of color can take ownership over in Disney animal cinematic universe.

OR...

 

[xipotec]

That is well said. I would ask though, as people name any "ridiculous thing" as offensive - is is always warranted? I do legitimately find the premise of current X-Men comics offensive - but I'm also not calling for them to remove the Storm ride or the Wolverine meet & greet at Universal. There are many factors to consider, and yes, we should be sensitive, but that doesn't always mean the path to doing so will always be the same.

Very True. Its also really important to remember the “time” variable and the society variable.

50 years ago, media if flooded with thing that make your head spin when it come to racism, sexism , and gender roles. We have advanced as a society enough to understand them for what they were, a product of the time.

Now were some people saying they were wrong and offense then? YES! But society as a whole did not recognize it. Its not a moral judgement, as it was a different time. I think to me, the litmus test is when society as a whole or majority (or vocal large group) point it out and show valid cause as to why its offensive.

It fluid and not alway correct either.

 

[Pooh's World]

OR...

Frist one

First one is steamboat willie.

Still white though. Not an animal of color.

 

[BrianL]

First one is steamboat willie.

Still white though. Not an animal of color.

Steamboat Willi was in black & white though. All of mine are examples form colorized media. As you can see, his face is stark white, not any natural skin-tone.

 

[starlite_]

It's no "power fantasy" it's just making all mutants into jerks. They were so sanctimonious and condescending. They lie to humans. They hate them. They don't want to be near them. Oh, but we won't kill you and we'll save the world because we pity you. We can't die. We have EVERYTHING. You have NOTHING. We have a Utopia! A utopia where we will torture and shame-walk our OWN citizens if they don't toe the line 100%. A utopia that will give people like Apocalypse and Mister Sinister free reign to do ANYTHING becuast THEY are MUTANTS and mutants CAN NEVER DO ANY WRONG. And if you question it you are RACIST.

Seriously - who thought that was a good idea? Who thought that would make them into likeable characters? Setting up Magneto as one of the leaders is problematic anyway - he's a monster. I guess I could never understand how the X-Men, who used to stand against predjudice and racism, gravitated to the "Magneto is right" side. Magneto is not right and he never was. The idea that he even could be is indeed, the word of the day, offensive.

End of rant. Sorry.

I did not read the whole arc so I can't really comment on details. I do agree that in real life not everyone from an ethnicity is just good or just bad. And that dictatorships are bad in general.


I can also tell you as a minority, Magneto at his core was right. Why keep groveling at their oppresors when they could just make their own fantastical utopia. Of course that would never work in real life, but the Xmen don't live in real life. It is fictional wish fulfillment

 

[xipotec]

Stich = Alien who doesn’t speak so kind of like a pet not human

Pooh =
Animal of color

Nemo = fish
Non bipedal animal

Lighting McQueen = Blue eyes so white

And that’s the point though you wouldn’t notice.

Whats Pluto, not bipedal, so?
Cogsworth? No feet?
Back to Stich, Loads of Aliens in that , Gantu? Councilwoman? Jumba? Pleakley?

 

[Pooh's World]

Steamboat Willi was in black & white though. All of mine are examples form colorized media. As you can see, his face is stark white, not any natural skin-tone.

Some people do have close to that skin tone . Not people of color though.