Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[umichigan10]

No - I don't think so - that moment came and went in this movie.

One thing I feel like we haven't seen. It's really mentioned in both these movies, but more explicitly in this one. Ben/Kylo destroyed the Jedi training academy, and he took several students with him. It's implied he formed the "Knights of Ren" with them - they would've been a bunch of force users. Where are these characters? I wonder if we are going to see Rey bringing together a bunch of force users and Kylo as well and then an all out battle of sorts.

Yeah I was disappointed that moment passed them by, I thought they were pretty bad*** fighting together.

I just don’t think kylo will die in the last film regardless. Although most of the ideas I had for this film went up in flames, so I honestly know nothing when it comes to predicting things

 

[KaptKaveman]

I totall get not loving this movie and not liking the direction it is going in - but I struggle with comments like this which call it a horrible movie - I mean, the visuals in some scenes are stunning, the fight scene in Snoke's Throne Room was excellent... I get not being a fan, but to say it is below the Christmas Special I just don't get

... I think what is clear is that it is a different / new Star Wars and for those that grew up with the originals - your Star Wars did end on the moon of Endor

I think they tried to "awaken" the feelings in Star Wars fans with TFA and then tried to blow everything up with TLJ and let it set its own course - and if you try to make it just more of the original trilogy it doesn't fit that

let me explain.

TLDR The movie was bad due to multiple plot holes, silly lapses in anything remotely resembling logic(yes I know it is Star Wars but give me a break), and its directors willingness to dump on previous movies/characters and fans of them. Put another way: if this movie did not have the Star Wars name attached to it I doubt it would get the same glowing reviews

*Spoilers below*

The scene in the throne room was actually the high point of the movie. And yes the Christmas Special comment was partially tongue in check. However having really enjoyed TFA and RO, I was really looking forward to this movie. I was Extremely dissappointed. Star Wars didn't end for me on the Moon of Endor but it sure seems like it might have ended on whatever the heck planet Luke was on when he took the lightsaber from Rey and chucked it over his shoulder. I found that part to be highly symbolic of the way the director treated the previous 8 movies and fans of those movies.

Even if you take the movie as going "its own course", it was a hot mess of plot holes and filler side stories that did not need to happen.

For example. The bit with Finn was 1/4 (maybe 1/5 of the movie) that was just complete trash. Let's assume that their was some greater reason that Admiral Purple Hair and Princess Leia had for hiding their plan from Poe. Are we really supposed to believe that they made it to the other side of the Galaxy, on advice from Maz, just happened to be put into the same cell as this movie's version of Lando, freed a bunch of slave horses, defeated the Defense Complex (cuz thats a new plot), and made it back to be captured all in under 18 hours? This whole subplot was forced garbage. It almost seemed like Rian Johnson wrote the script, started production, and one of the gaffers asked "Hey what about Finn". Then they had to shoe-horn him into the movie, so they used an old post cold war plot that has been done to death. Throw in a dash of rich versus poor and whammo you are up to over 2 hours.

Once again its great if they wanted to chart their own course but did they really have to throw old(Luke) and new(Poe) characters under the bus in order to do that? Does it really seem likely that Luke who would not "strike down" his father because he sensed conflict in him, would strike down his young nephew because.......er..... well.... he sensed conflict in him? Really?

Going forward in this new direction, who is going to be in charge of the First Order? It looks like a pair of keystone cops are in charge now on that side, with Snoke dispatched. On the other side Princess Leia's character, who somehow has some incredible defensive force powers(don't even get me started on this, it was way worse than Indiana Jones in the Refrigerator) will be written out of the script. Then we will be left with Rey(who some how knows all about the Force with no training[typical young adult]), Finn who has surprising fighting skills for a janitor(I know the janitor at my kid's high school claims to be the one that really took down Boba Fett), a recently Neutered Poe Dameron, and Rose. Though in all fairness Rose will probably we accidentally left out of the script and get her own rushed useless side plot in the next movie. But in reality what's the difference, we know the side with the better droids will win so assuming they don't scrap BB8 they should be good to go.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

let me explain.

TLDR The movie was bad due to multiple plot holes, silly lapses in anything remotely resembling logic(yes I know it is Star Wars but give me a break), and its directors willingness to dump on previous movies/characters and fans of them. Put another way: if this movie did not have the Star Wars name attached to it I doubt it would get the same glowing reviews

*Spoilers below*

The scene in the throne room was actually the high point of the movie. And yes the Christmas Special comment was partially tongue in check. However having really enjoyed TFA and RO, I was really looking forward to this movie. I was Extremely dissappointed. Star Wars didn't end for me on the Moon of Endor but it sure seems like it might have ended on whatever the heck planet Luke was on when he took the lightsaber from Rey and chucked it over his shoulder. I found that part to be highly symbolic of the way the director treated the previous 8 movies and fans of those movies.

Even if you take the movie as going "its own course", it was a hot mess of plot holes and filler side stories that did not need to happen.

For example. The bit with Finn was 1/4 (maybe 1/5 of the movie) that was just complete trash. Let's assume that their was some greater reason that Admiral Purple Hair and Princess Leia had for hiding their plan from Poe. Are we really supposed to believe that they made it to the other side of the Galaxy, on advice from Maz, just happened to be put into the same cell as this movie's version of Lando, freed a bunch of slave horses, defeated the Defense Complex (cuz thats a new plot), and made it back to be captured all in under 18 hours? This whole subplot was forced garbage. It almost seemed like Rian Johnson wrote the script, started production, and one of the gaffers asked "Hey what about Finn". Then they had to shoe-horn him into the movie, so they used an old post cold war plot that has been done to death. Throw in a dash of rich versus poor and whammo you are up to over 2 hours.

Once again its great if they wanted to chart their own course but did they really have to throw old(Luke) and new(Poe) characters under the bus in order to do that? Does it really seem likely that Luke who would not "strike down" his father because he sensed conflict in him, would strike down his young nephew because.......er..... well.... he sensed conflict in him? Really?

Going forward in this new direction, who is going to be in charge of the First Order? It looks like a pair of keystone cops are in charge now on that side, with Snoke dispatched. On the other side Princess Leia's character, who somehow has some incredible defensive force powers(don't even get me started on this, it was way worse than Indiana Jones in the Refrigerator) will be written out of the script. Then we will be left with Rey(who some how knows all about the Force with no training[typical young adult]), Finn who has surprising fighting skills for a janitor(I know the janitor at my kid's high school claims to be the one that really took down Boba Fett), a recently Neutered Poe Dameron, and Rose. Though in all fairness Rose will probably we accidentally left out of the script and get her own rushed useless side plot in the next movie. But in reality what's the difference, we know the side with the better droids will win so assuming they don't scrap BB8 they should be good to go.

I very much to think Luke throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder was done on prupose to show that this movie will not be more of the same form TFA - that what you expected (that was such an emotional ending) will not happen

I agree for the most part about the Finn side quest - though the timing plot hole is something that happens throughout Star Wars - I mean, even in Empire, which is largely considered the best of them all, Luke apparently gets to Degoba and gets all of this training to be a Jedi Knight in the time it takes the Falcon to get to Cloud City

The falshback scene with Luke I think it is interesting in that he sort of subconsciously ignited his lightsaber just from feeling the level of the dark side in Ben but then couldn't do it - so in some ways he showed a lot more control than in Jedi where he acted on emotion to stike at the Emporer and went ham on Darth Vador, chopping his arm off, etc. and only called to him when he needed him as he was getting fried by the Emporer

Also, Finn wasn't a Janitor - that was one of his duties at one point when he was on Star Killer Base - but if you read his backstory he was a high performer storm trooper and led his own battalion and was noted to be for a leadership position by Phasma who pushed him to be even better

 

[jade1]

For example. The bit with Finn was 1/4 (maybe 1/5 of the movie) that was just complete trash. Let's assume that their was some greater reason that Admiral Purple Hair and Princess Leia had for hiding their plan from Poe. Are we really supposed to believe that they made it to the other side of the Galaxy, on advice from Maz, just happened to be put into the same cell as this movie's version of Lando, freed a bunch of slave horses, defeated the Defense Complex (cuz thats a new plot), and made it back to be captured all in under 18 hours? This whole subplot was forced garbage. It almost seemed like Rian Johnson wrote the script, started production, and one of the gaffers asked "Hey what about Finn". Then they had to shoe-horn him into the movie, so they used an old post cold war plot that has been done to death. Throw in a dash of rich versus poor and whammo you are up to over 2 hours.

Wasn't that whole nonsense to introduce the boy at the end?

 

[ChefLife]

I very much to think Luke throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder was done on prupose to show that this movie will not be more of the same form TFA - that what you expected (that was such an emotional ending) will not happen

I agree for the most part about the Finn side quest - though the timing plot hole is something that happens throughout Star Wars - I mean, even in Empire, which is largely considered the best of them all, Luke apparently gets to Degoba and gets all of this training to be a Jedi Knight in the time it takes the Falcon to get to Cloud City

The falshback scene with Luke I think it is interesting in that he sort of subconsciously ignited his lightsaber just from feeling the level of the dark side in Ben but then couldn't do it - so in some ways he showed a lot more control than in Jedi where he acted on emotion to stike at the Emporer and went ham on Darth Vador, chopping his arm off, etc. and only called to him when he needed him as he was getting fried by the Emporer

Also, Finn wasn't a Janitor - that was one of his duties at one point when he was on Star Killer Base - but if you read his backstory he was a high performer storm trooper and led his own battalion and was noted to be for a leadership position by Phasma who pushed him to be even better

That kind of reminds me of an issue people had with that Destiny game a couple of years back. You have to go and read little backstory cards because the developers or in this case filmmakers were too lazy to include them. That kind of flashback stuff would have been much better for Finn and given him the reason to charge the cannon at then end.

 

[skier_pete]

let me explain.

TLDR The movie was bad due to multiple plot holes, silly lapses in anything remotely resembling logic(yes I know it is Star Wars but give me a break), and its directors willingness to dump on previous movies/characters and fans of them. Put another way: if this movie did not have the Star Wars name attached to it I doubt it would get the same glowing reviews.

I don't really want to get into an argument with someone who (a) clearly believes they are right that the movie is bad (and that IS your right) and (b) clearly doesn't want to hear arguments in favor of the movie.

But will say this one bit (and also SPOILERS) in my view you are completely mis-reading the scene where Luke considers killing Ben. He sees the darkness in him and the terrible future, and he KNOWS where that led to with his father - a galaxy at war - and he KNOWS where he was nearly led to as well. So he considers that course - but in the end decides against it. He decided NOT to kill him, but in giving into the weakness - it led to EXACTLY what he had foreseen coming true. By ALMOST killing him, Luke CAUSED the destruction of his Jedi Academy and the rise of Kylo Ren and the first order. This was all Luke's bad choices. And rather than try to fix it - he retreated. Is that what you or I - as a fan of Luke Skywalker - want his character to do? No, we want him to rise up and save the day again. But that story would just be more of what we've already seen. Luke (and Yoda) realize that there's has to be another way than more of the same. So Luke still ends up a hero in this story - but it is no longer HIS story. I have to say I'm beginning to feel like the Luke portion of this movie might be my favorite part of the movie.

I think if you want convention - you'll probably be in luck with JJ taking over Episode 9. Convention is what gave us TFA - a pretty good but very rote Star Wars movie. I preferred this.

 

[Ben Power]

Admittedly, I didn't read all 19 pages, so I apologize if I am repeating someone else here.

My main issue with the movie was that Vice Admiral Holdo (brand new character) is the one to "save the resistance". This felt like a perfect way to properly end Leia's engagement with Star Wars and have a Laura Dern stay involved moving forward. Very easily, Leia could have told her to get on the transport and she was staying behind (sacrificing herself) and when she felt the resistance was dying, further sacrificing herself to save the cause. Would have been a fitting ending to her character and provided a lot more emotion besides some random lady we just met driving her ship into the bad guy.

My 2nd issue is around trying to make Kylo Ren appear to be a good guy, only to have him be all emotional again. If they want him to be a bad guy, which it is clear that he is, I want them to do a flashback scene of him destroying the Jedi camp (a la Annikan killing all the padawans in #3) and not having him be an emotional teenager, but an actual villain. The whole battle with Luke had potential, but it still felt like he was the more emotional bad guy as opposed to an evil villain.

Overall, it was still an enjoyable movie, but wish they would've done a few more things to really set it apart.

 

[skier_pete]

My 2nd issue is around trying to make Kylo Ren appear to be a good guy, only to have him be all emotional again. If they want him to be a bad guy, which it is clear that he is, I want them to do a flashback scene of him destroying the Jedi camp (a la Annikan killing all the padawans in #3) and not having him be an emotional teenager, but an actual villain. The whole battle with Luke had potential, but it still felt like he was the more emotional bad guy as opposed to an evil villain.

Yeah, this is probably my biggest problem too - he started moving in an interesting direction - then finished off as a petulant kid. Hard to believe this guy will be in command of the First order for very long.

 

[KaptKaveman]

I don't really want to get into an argument with someone who (a) clearly believes they are right that the movie is bad (and that IS your right) and (b) clearly doesn't want to hear arguments in favor of the movie.

It is a friendly discussion not an argument. Luckily in this case we can both be right.

Concerning Luke and Ben. I think I would run like heck from the Jedi side if I woke up to my master standing over me with a lightsaber ready to whack me.

JJ taking over will be tough to salvage how bad this movie was. I say again if it didn't not have the Star Wars name attached it probably would have gone straight to DVD.

 

[KaptKaveman]

I very much to think Luke throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder was done on prupose to show that this movie will not be more of the same form TFA - that what you expected (that was such an emotional ending) will not happen

I agree for the most part about the Finn side quest - though the timing plot hole is something that happens throughout Star Wars - I mean, even in Empire, which is largely considered the best of them all, Luke apparently gets to Degoba and gets all of this training to be a Jedi Knight in the time it takes the Falcon to get to Cloud City

The falshback scene with Luke I think it is interesting in that he sort of subconsciously ignited his lightsaber just from feeling the level of the dark side in Ben but then couldn't do it - so in some ways he showed a lot more control than in Jedi where he acted on emotion to stike at the Emporer and went ham on Darth Vador, chopping his arm off, etc. and only called to him when he needed him as he was getting fried by the Emporer

Also, Finn wasn't a Janitor - that was one of his duties at one point when he was on Star Killer Base - but if you read his backstory he was a high performer storm trooper and led his own battalion and was noted to be for a leadership position by Phasma who pushed him to be even better

Yes the timing in Empire always bothered me as did the speed with which Luke reaches Jedi status, However, there is no denying he had to go to Dagobah. Did Finn really need to go to Casino World? Also if we are going to nitpick about the paltry training that Luke had to reach Jedi status, shouldn't we also take exception to Rey having zero training? Did she stay at a Holiday Inn Express(this commercial writes itself).

I know Finn is not just a Janitor, but the movies don't really do any of that other stuff justice. For the most part he winds up getting beat down in every conflict in which he is involved. The fight between him an Phasma seemed forced to begin with and then it took about 20 seconds of screen time.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Admittedly, I didn't read all 19 pages, so I apologize if I am repeating someone else here.

My main issue with the movie was that Vice Admiral Holdo (brand new character) is the one to "save the resistance". This felt like a perfect way to properly end Leia's engagement with Star Wars and have a Laura Dern stay involved moving forward. Very easily, Leia could have told her to get on the transport and she was staying behind (sacrificing herself) and when she felt the resistance was dying, further sacrificing herself to save the cause. Would have been a fitting ending to her character and provided a lot more emotion besides some random lady we just met driving her ship into the bad guy.

My 2nd issue is around trying to make Kylo Ren appear to be a good guy, only to have him be all emotional again. If they want him to be a bad guy, which it is clear that he is, I want them to do a flashback scene of him destroying the Jedi camp (a la Annikan killing all the padawans in #3) and not having him be an emotional teenager, but an actual villain. The whole battle with Luke had potential, but it still felt like he was the more emotional bad guy as opposed to an evil villain.

Overall, it was still an enjoyable movie, but wish they would've done a few more things to really set it apart.

I think the plan was for Leia to be the main (of the original) characters in Episode 9 (so Han was episode 7, Luke episode 8, and the Leia gets 9) - if they had known what was going to happen I suspect they would have had her sacrifice herself as you describe

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The fight between him an Phasma seemed forced to begin with and then it took about 20 seconds of screen time.

Thant was a huge let down for me - knowing the backstory and this being the chance for Finn to giver her her comeuppance (and it was highly featured in the commercials) for it to be as weak of a battle as it was was disappointing

 

[skier_pete]

Thant was a huge let down for me - knowing the backstory and this being the chance for Finn to giver her her comeuppance (and it was highly featured in the commercials) for it to be as weak of a battle as it was was disappointing

Yeah - it's a minor point, but the press around the previous movie was "Wait until the NEXT movie for Phasma." And then this was kind of meh...

 

[Aurora0427]

Boy you took the words right out of my mouth. I enjoy TFA in the theater but when I think about what happen to the original three boy do I get depressed. I haven't seen LJ yet. But I am fine with spoilers. They prepare me. And Love Finn, Poe and Rey. I am waiting to see how this trilogy plays out. Will see TLJ after Xmas

Luckily there is some good fanfics out there making me feel better

The way this new trilogy is going is just not how I envisioned life would go for Luke, Leia and Han post Endor. Depressing is right..... you’re not missing anything by waiting to see TLJ. I’m so disillusioned by the original big threes stories and still distraught over Carrie Fisher’s death, that I honestly can’t even tell if it’s a good movie or not!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Yes the timing in Empire always bothered me as did the speed with which Luke reaches Jedi status, However, there is no denying he had to go to Dagobah. Did Finn really need to go to Casino World? Also if we are going to nitpick about the paltry training that Luke had to reach Jedi status, shouldn't we also take exception to Rey having zero training? Did she stay at a Holiday Inn Express(this commercial writes itself).

yeah, my point was just that I don't know if plot holes alone are a reason to think the film was horrible as there have been tons of plot holes in all the Star Wars movies. If you don't like the film that obviously that is up to you - I can totally get not liking it... just don't see plot holes as being the driving force of that. The lack of training for Rey has always been a point of contention through these last two movies I think

as for the Casino World, i do think it made the film drag a bit but I think it was there for a few reasons. 1) to add the political commentary (representing the 1% of todays country) and also to show that both sides use these weapons builders and isn't like the resistance has their hands completely clean. 2) to be the "faniciful" location for this film with people in fancy clothes / cosplay potential/ etc., 3) to show how the seeds of rebellion are found throughout the galaxy and there does exist "hope", and then 4) to show the scene at the end with the kid with Force abilities

Not saying it all couldn't have been handled more elegantly, but I think there was a purpose behind it

 

[Aurora0427]

My other gripe with this movie is Leia can use the force to survive being airlocked into space and move herself through space to get to a ship, but when confronted with the tunnel being blocked by rocks on Crait, appears dumbfounded.

It also pissed me off that they killed Admiral Ackbar. Not that he was a huge focus, but come on. I think I pretty much hate this movie right now!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

My other gripe with this movie is Leia can use the force to survive being airlocked into space and move herself through space to get to a ship, but when confronted with the tunnel being blocked by rocks on Crait, appears dumbfounded.

It also pissed me off that they killed Admiral Ackbar. Not that he was a huge focus, but come on. I think I pretty much hate this movie right now!

From the way Rian Johnson said it, Leia was able to use the force when her life was threatens by instinct - like those stories of people gaining superhuman strength to move a car when a child is trapped or whatever .... so she doesn't doesn't know how to actively use the Force - it was just by instinct ... plus Rey moved them pretty quick, it wasn't like they were there for an hour and it never dawned on her to at least try it

I agree about Ackbar - and in such a throwaway line as well ... he should have had a more heroic death - heck have him be the one who sacrifices himself in the spaceship going to lightspeed through the First Order ship

 

[romitaz]

Ok, my take on the movie. I LOVED it. For those poopooing the Finn/Rose side trip, we were given a very rare glimpse into other lives in a movie of this type. The Big Bad vs the Little Guy. We see something that reinforces what, I believe, is the premise of the whole movie. Not everything is cut and dried. Nothing is just good or evil. At the casino we see a group of people that seem to have profited very well from the war. We think, "well they are all bad and deserve what they get." Then we see that these same people probably helped the rebels just as much as they helped the First Order by selling to them as well. So, are they evil or good? They are in the gray area that most people live in. I think the casino scene very much highlighted that and advanced the theme very well. That gray area was a repeated theme throughout. I think that gray area disturbed many on a very deep level. Which can lead to many hating the movie. (Though as a side on that, I see many screaming they hated it but were going to see it again just to make sure they hated it as much as the first time. Point Disney for getting your butt in the seat again.) We want our heroes to be pure hero and NOT human. When we see them as human, they have failed us in many's eyes. We hate to see our heroes as a reflection in our own mirror. I thought this one did a masterful job of stirring many emotions. Even if that was hate in some. Bravo Rian Johnson and Bravo Disney!


By the way, I was in the theater as a small lad when A New Hope came out so count me in the "old fart" that LOVED this movie category.

 

[HuskieJohn]

My other gripe with this movie is Leia can use the force to survive being airlocked into space and move herself through space to get to a ship, but when confronted with the tunnel being blocked by rocks on Crait, appears dumbfounded.

It also pissed me off that they killed Admiral Ackbar. Not that he was a huge focus, but come on. I think I pretty much hate this movie right now!

Leia used the force subconsciously during an immediate life or death situation.
This idea that Leia could do this was introduced in the LoA book released before this movie.

 

[HuskieJohn]

My screening at 7pm on Thursday was fun but had an especially amazing audience moment.

That part where Holdo does the thing she does and then we get the completely silent amazing visual afterwards...my theater was 100% also silent...until a little kid in utter amazement exclaimed "whoooooa"...Everyone in the theater loved it and erupted in cheers.

I love these movies with fans first time reactions.