Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[amberpi]

The more I'm thinking on this, I think my boy Kylo has to be the ultimate big bad in 9. He's Vader's grandson, Luke's nephew, and we now know Leia has/had untapped force powers...if he truly becomes grey (and really, the Jedi aren't perfect), it could be a really satisfying ending.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The more I'm thinking on this, I think my boy Kylo has to be the ultimate big bad in 9. He's Vader's grandson, Luke's nephew, and we now know Leia has/had untapped force powers...if he truly becomes grey (and really, the Jedi aren't perfect), it could be a really satisfying ending.

I think he will be the "big bad" - or at least, there isn't another Snoke behind him or whatever - but I think he will be a different sort of bad guy and not a "Sith master" - as I don't think he will care about the history of the Sith Lords or anything

 

[romitaz]

One more thing, my SO has never been a big fan of Star Wars. She will casually watch along as I am watching the OT for the thousandth time. She has gone with me to all of the new movies that have come out in the last 10 years. I normally get," it wasn't bad." Or, "it was pretty good." That would be her whole treatise on the movies. We left the theater last night and she could not stop talking about it. She LOVED it. To her, it was the best one by far. I think the best thing that the new trilogy is doing is bringing a ton of new blood into the rabid fandom that many of us have enjoyed for 4 decades. To be brutally honest, those of us that we of a certain age, do not really matter anymore. The new blood will be the Life's blood going forward. In that, I think they hit this one out of the park.

 

[amberpi]

I think he will be the "big bad" - or at least, there isn't another Snoke behind him or whatever - but I think he will be a different sort of bad guy and not a "Sith master" - as I don't think he will care about the history of the Sith Lords or anything

Pretty much what I was getting at...I'm hoping he/Knights marry the dark and light sides of force and balance will be restored. But that's too much of a happy ending for me to admit to wanting/thinking is probable. I should say "all the jedi die and Sith rule forever."

And ya'll hating on the Vice Admiral's costume? Uhm, no, they had to give us something to cosplay since TFA sucked so hard in that regard.

 

[romitaz]

I think he will be the "big bad" - or at least, there isn't another Snoke behind him or whatever - but I think he will be a different sort of bad guy and not a "Sith master" - as I don't think he will care about the history of the Sith Lords or anything

Agreed. I think this story arc will take a whole new direction instead of Sith Lord vs Jedi Knight. Two warring religions that have had their time on stage and now will exit stage right.

 

[Orsino]

I'm a casual fan too, and I loved it.

Now I'm looking forward to shaking some red salt on my roasted porg at Galaxy's Edge.
Okay, they probably won't serve porg, but I do expect red salt. I'll pass on the green milk. That was a marketing mistake. I don't want to drink milk from whatever that was.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

One more thing, my SO has never been a big fan of Star Wars. She will casually watch along as I am watching the OT for the thousandth time. She has gone with me to all of the new movies that have come out in the last 10 years. I normally get," it wasn't bad." Or, "it was pretty good." That would be her whole treatise on the movies. We left the theater last night and she could not stop talking about it. She LOVED it. To her, it was the best one by far. I think the best thing that the new trilogy is doing is bringing a ton of new blood into the rabid fandom that many of us have enjoyed for 4 decades. To be brutally honest, those of us that we of a certain age, do not really matter anymore. The new blood will be the Life's blood going forward. In that, I think they hit this one out of the park.

and that new blood likely has kids and either way will now want to come to the parks to experience being in the new lands, etc. .... those that have been fans for 40 years are already going to come, they didn't need to convince them

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Pretty much what I was getting at...I'm hoping he/Knights marry the dark and light sides of force and balance will be restored. But that's too much of a happy ending for me to admit to wanting/thinking is probable. I should say "all the jedi die and Sith rule forever."

And ya'll hating on the Vice Admiral's costume? Uhm, no, they had to give us something to cosplay since TFA sucked so hard in that regard.

I kind of think they are going to get away from one person being the balance - more that the Force in totality is in balance. And then looking back, you can see that Anakin did help bring balance because when there were a ton of Jedi they misused their poweres, etc. and by the end of episode 3 there were basically two trained Sith and two Trained Jedi (so balance)

So I can't see your wishful thinking of "all the jedi die and Sith rule forever" - but also don't see the opposite of Kylo dying and Rey being this all powerful, perfect, chosen one, balance of the Force thing either

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I'm a casual fan too, and I loved it.

Now I'm looking forward to shaking some red salt on my roasted porg at Galaxy's Edge.
Okay, they probably won't serve porg, but I do expect red salt. I'll pass on the green milk. That was a marketing mistake. I don't want to drink milk from whatever that was.

I will give them credit for having guts if they do serve like cornish game hens and call it "roasted porg"

 

[amberpi]

I kind of think they are going to get away from one person being the balance - more that the Force in totality is in balance. And then looking back, you can see that Anakin did help bring balance because when there were a ton of Jedi they misused their poweres, etc. and by the end of episode 3 there were basically two trained Sith and two Trained Jedi (so balance)

So I can't see your wishful thinking of "all the jedi die and Sith rule forever" - but also don't see the opposite of Kylo dying and Rey being this all powerful, perfect, chosen one, balance of the Force thing either

I was teasing about the "all the jedi die" bit. The one constant is the back and forth between opposing sides, the only way for it to end is for balance to be achieved, it's just a matter of how they do that.

 

[amberpi]

I'm a casual fan too, and I loved it.

Now I'm looking forward to shaking some red salt on my roasted porg at Galaxy's Edge.
Okay, they probably won't serve porg, but I do expect red salt. I'll pass on the green milk. That was a marketing mistake. I don't want to drink milk from whatever that was.

I actually thought that they could do a grasshopper type of drink that would look like the green milk. Not for me, but it'd work.

 

[Disneymom1126]

let me explain.

Star Wars didn't end for me on the Moon of Endor but it sure seems like it might have ended on whatever the heck planet Luke was on when he took the lightsaber from Rey and chucked it over his shoulder.

I don't disagree with you here. It seemed out of character for him to toss is like that. They could have achieved the same effect by just having him refuse to take it and walk away from her.

The bit with Finn was 1/4 (maybe 1/5 of the movie) that was just complete trash.

I don't agree with you here. There were a few important things that came out of that sequence that I think will further the plot in 9. First, the idea that good/bad are not absolutes. The people profiting from the war are selling to both sides and by keeping those people "in business" they are also helping those people to further oppress the downtrodden (e.g. the slave kids and the horse-like animals). Second, is that if the remaining rebels are going to be the "spark that unites the resistance" then they have to influence someone. The slave kids on canto bight symbolize that. If we don't meet them, it doesn't set up that story line. It may not be the exact boy that is shown as force sensitive at the very end of the movie, but the resistance isn't just the handful of people on the Millennium Falcon at the end of the movie - it's been ignited and will continue to be across the galaxy...which I think will be part of 9.

Once again its great if they wanted to chart their own course but did they really have to throw old(Luke) and new(Poe) characters under the bus in order to do that?

I didn't take the development of Luke or Poe as throwing them under the bus at all.

For Luke, the way I interpret his arc in this movie is that he got to a point where he felt like he was untouchable, people worshiped him for defeating Vader. He also blames himself for how Kylo turned out. From his perspective, he stopped himself before he did anything to hurt Kylo, but he also understands that from Kylo's perspective Luke was trying to kill him - which further pushed him to the dark side. Luke feels like maybe he could have still helped him if the incident hadn't happened. And Kylo wasn't just some random force sensitive kid, it was his nephew - his best friend and sister's son...I buy that he was ready for the Jedi to end

For Poe, we don't see a whole lot of Poe in the first movie, so we don't know much about his character. I feel like they are setting him up to be the leader once Leia is gone, but they can't just throw him into a leadership role, he has to learn how to be a leader. His whole story line in this movie was about him learning some hard lessons about leadership and how to control his impulses - I feel like he showed that he had learned this in the speeder scene where he tells everyone to retreat vs. feeling like he can be the one to save the day.

Then we will be left with Rey(who some how knows all about the Force with no training[typical young adult]), Finn who has surprising fighting skills for a janitor(I know the janitor at my kid's high school claims to be the one that really took down Boba Fett), a recently Neutered Poe Dameron, and Rose.

To be fair, they didn't show much training with Luke either, so while they could have done more training with Rey, it isn't surprising that they didn't. I did think there would be more interaction between her and Luke before she left the island. I am still not sure what to make of the idea that her parents are no one. It seems like they really set things up in both movies to center around who her parents are, so odd there isn't more to the story...maybe we learn more in 9.

As for Finn having fighting skills, I'm sure all storm troopers have some training regardless of what their responsibilities are. I didn't think he showed that great of fighting skills anyway. He just happens to be able to hit something that raises up the platform he fell on and knocks Phasma out when she isn't ready for him.

Not trying to get you to like the movie, you've made your mind up about it, but just pointing out where my perspective is different or where I interpreted things differently when I watched it.

 

[tjkraz]

For us older folks (40s here), the most jarring thing about episodes 7 and 8 is the plain fact that the "big 3" didn't develop into the larger than life figures that our imaginations (and expanded universe stuff) played them up to be. These are some of the most celebrated characters in all of pop culture. Nevertheless, Han continued to play the scoundrel, essentially abandoning his family. Luke had some adventures with this Jedi academy, but spent his later years as a hermit and seemingly departed the galaxy with no regrets.

Specific to Luke, the storytellers only had a few ways they could go:

1) Continue to play him as the hero, despite the fact that he shouldn't be winning any fierce lightsaber battles against someone 1/3 his age (see Indiana Jones 5)
2) Have him brutally slain on screen (see Han Solo, or perhaps a better parallel would be the original James Kirk.)
3) Shuffle him into a sort of background, mentor role to the new generation (see 700-year old Yoda...and Luke may still become this.)

What they went with was more of a layered, poetic ending. Luke wasn't "slain", but still made an important sacrifice while setting necessary events into motion.

It wasn't a completely satisfying story...mostly because my expectations were so different. Nevertheless, it's the story that Disney/Lucasfilm decided to tell and I'm willing to roll with it. My vision of Luke Skywalker is no more "right" than someone else's. This story certainly has more complexity than the Saturday-morning-movie-serial fluff George Lucas was known for writing. The stuff about the nature of the force was much more satisfying than "yeah...it's, uhh...midichlorians (sp?)"

(Incidentally, I assume I'm not the first one to point this out but Luke's demise mirrors Obi Wan in Episode 4, providing a logical explanation for something that's seemed unexplainable for 40 years.)

 

[BrianL]

Wow, I didn't see this thread here. Nobody's really talking about it on the CB thread, so I'll re-post and expand upon my thoughts here where the SW nerds are hanging out.

I liked it a lot, though it maybe didn't live up to my expectations, and it is in the lower end of the ranking of Star Wars movies for me, but that is for the one big reason below and has more to do with the message of the film than the actual execution.

I did like the "Mary Poppins" scene. It's probably my favorite scene in the movie, especially as I expected her to die in that moment. I loved it! I love the humor. I enjoyed the Canto Bight (casino world) scenes and I really started to like Finn a lot more in this film. Yeah, this plays like something from the prequels, but that's not a bad thing in my book! I have always enjoyed the prequels and just don't get the hate. The Luke and Rey stuff was a little dragged out, but Luke made a cool appearance at the end. I enjoyed how it paralleled the Dagobah scenes from ESB. Honestly, this movie would have my calling them out for something wrong one moment, then correcting it the next. Like, Luke had a blue lightsaber, but the blue one was destroyed and it should have been the green one. Since it was all a projection though, it works. I like that this movie surprised me more than once, unlike the very safe and predictable Force Awakens. The constant subverting of expectations was a good thing in my opinion. I also loved the humor and I love Poe even more now than I already did.

On the negative side, and here's where I have some mixed feelings. The message of this movie is a bit of a downer. It basically says that running away is better in the long run. Laura Dern's character was so very unlikable, and I hated her (she went out like a boss though!). What I disliked is that I loved Poe, and I loved Fin & Rose's crazy mission, but then it was all for naught. Holdo was right. It...kinda sucks. Sometimes we just wanna see our space jockeys perform acts of derring do to save the day. Poe wants to hot-dog it and take out a Dreadnaught? Let him. Fin wants to make the sacrifice play (probably ejecting at the last second)? Man, go for it! I get the "real world" military tactics that Leia is talking about, but is a bit of a smack in the face to heroism. Maybe if Holdo had just told everyone they would be okay instead of keeping that little nugget a secret it might have turned out differently. I dunno, I just kinda didn't like that. Then again, this is the middle part, so it has to come across a little dark and the heroes have to be on the ropes. By the way, are the Resistance or the Rebellion? They aren't interchangeable terms.

Whatever. Strong philosophical differences aside, I thought it was a very good movie and highly entertaining. The middle part of each trilogy is my least favorite, so I don't know why I should be surprised that it wasn't quite as resonant as some. Still, it's Star Wars, and I love it, and I will go see it again.

 

[jade1]

Second, is that if the remaining rebels are going to be the "spark that unites the resistance" then they have to influence someone. The slave kids on canto bight symbolize that. If we don't meet them, it doesn't set up that story line. It may not be the exact boy that is shown as force sensitive at the very end of the movie, but the resistance isn't just the handful of people on the Millennium Falcon at the end of the movie - it's been ignited and will continue to be across the galaxy...which I think will be part of 9.

That's what I was saying-but I thought it was for sure the same boy Finn encountered on the Casino run, maybe not?

Will have to watch again.

Wasn't that whole nonsense to introduce the boy at the end?

Did Finn really need to go to Casino World?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

For us older folks (40s here), the most jarring thing about episodes 7 and 8 is the plain fact that the "big 3" didn't develop into the larger than life figures that our imaginations (and expanded universe stuff) played them up to be. These are some of the most celebrated characters in all of pop culture. Nevertheless, Han continued to play the scoundrel, essentially abandoning his family. Luke had some adventures with this Jedi academy, but spent his later years as a hermit and seemingly departed the galaxy with no regrets.

Specific to Luke, the storytellers only had a few ways they could go:

1) Continue to play him as the hero, despite the fact that he shouldn't be winning any fierce lightsaber battles against someone 1/3 his age (see Indiana Jones 5)
2) Have him brutally slain on screen (see Han Solo, or perhaps a better parallel would be the original James Kirk.)
3) Shuffle him into a sort of background, mentor role to the new generation (see 700-year old Yoda...and Luke may still become this.)

What they went with was more of a layered, poetic ending. Luke wasn't "slain", but still made an important sacrifice while setting necessary events into motion.

It wasn't a completely satisfying story...mostly because my expectations were so different. Nevertheless, it's the story that Disney/Lucasfilm decided to tell and I'm willing to roll with it. My vision of Luke Skywalker is no more "right" than someone else's. This story certainly has more complexity than the Saturday-morning-movie-serial fluff George Lucas was known for writing. The stuff about the nature of the force was much more satisfying than "yeah...it's, uhh...midichlorians (sp?)"

(Incidentally, I assume I'm not the first one to point this out but Luke's demise mirrors Obi Wan in Episode 4, providing a logical explanation for something that's seemed unexplainable for 40 years.)

Well, I think Leia advanced probably as people thought and stayed true to her spirit - maybe not as happy of a life as one hoped (especially with Han leaving and then her son turning to the dark side-ish) but her character I think stayed fairly ture

The thing with Luke is that if he was the same I think that would have been boring and I could see people complaining that he didn't evolve at all ... now, maybe one doesn't like the direction they went in but I think he had to be different, in some way, to what was in the original trilogy

Han I agree it would have been nice to see some growth or change - plus it feels like it was what happened to Ben that pushed both Han and Luke is sort of similar directions, so some variation would have been nice.

I get what you are saying comparing Luke to Obi Wan - it made me think more of Yoda where they both just sort of faded away vs Obi Wan becoming a Force Ghost right as Vader's saber goes through them (or maybe sort of a combination of both)

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Wow, I didn't see this thread here. Nobody's really talking about it on the CB thread, so I'll re-post and expand upon my thoughts here where the SW nerds are hanging out.

I liked it a lot, though it maybe didn't live up to my expectations, and it is in the lower end of the ranking of Star Wars movies for me, but that is for the one big reason below and has more to do with the message of the film than the actual execution.

I did like the "Mary Poppins" scene. It's probably my favorite scene in the movie, especially as I expected her to die in that moment. I loved it! I love the humor. I enjoyed the Canto Bight (casino world) scenes and I really started to like Finn a lot more in this film. Yeah, this plays like something from the prequels, but that's not a bad thing in my book! I have always enjoyed the prequels and just don't get the hate. The Luke and Rey stuff was a little dragged out, but Luke made a cool appearance at the end. I enjoyed how it paralleled the Dagobah scenes from ESB. Honestly, this movie would have my calling them out for something wrong one moment, then correcting it the next. Like, Luke had a blue lightsaber, but the blue one was destroyed and it should have been the green one. Since it was all a projection though, it works. I like that this movie surprised me more than once, unlike the very safe and predictable Force Awakens. The constant subverting of expectations was a good thing in my opinion. I also loved the humor and I love Poe even more now than I already did.

On the negative side, and here's where I have some mixed feelings. The message of this movie is a bit of a downer. It basically says that running away is better in the long run. Laura Dern's character was so very unlikable, and I hated her (she went out like a boss though!). What I disliked is that I loved Poe, and I loved Fin & Rose's crazy mission, but then it was all for naught. Holdo was right. It...kinda sucks. Sometimes we just wanna see our space jockeys perform acts of derring do to save the day. Poe wants to hot-dog it and take out a Dreadnaught? Let him. Fin wants to make the sacrifice play (probably ejecting at the last second)? Man, go for it! I get the "real world" military tactics that Leia is talking about, but is a bit of a smack in the face to heroism. Maybe if Holdo had just told everyone they would be okay instead of keeping that little nugget a secret it might have turned out differently. I dunno, I just kinda didn't like that. Then again, this is the middle part, so it has to come across a little dark and the heroes have to be on the ropes. By the way, are the Resistance or the Rebellion? They aren't interchangeable terms.

Whatever. Strong philosophical differences aside, I thought it was a very good movie and highly entertaining. The middle part of each trilogy is my least favorite, so I don't know why I should be surprised that it wasn't quite as resonant as some. Still, it's Star Wars, and I love it, and I will go see it again.

I think that is the key - that this is the middle part and, in traditional story telling, is where the big crisis happens and then the third act shows the heroes overcoming that. I love it as it is more realistic (as Dante says in Clerks: "It ends on such a downer. That's what life is, a series of downers. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets!") - Empire is still my favorite of all the Star Wars movies

As to your last question I believe they explicitly said at the end that they are the Rebellion again as the Resistance was within the Republic, which has since been destroyed

 

[amberpi]

I think that is the key - that this is the middle part and, in traditional story telling, is where the big crisis happens and then the third act shows the heroes overcoming that. I love it as it is more realistic (as Dante says in Clerks: "It ends on such a downer. That's what life is, a series of downers. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets!") - Empire is still my favorite of all the Star Wars movies

As to your last question I believe they explicitly said at the end that they are the Rebellion again as the Resistance was within the Republic, which has since been destroyed

I thought Empire was universally the favorite of everyone; that literally everyone thought that and then it was figuring out the rest of the order.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I thought Empire was universally the favorite of everyone; that literally everyone thought that and then it was figuring out the rest of the order.

I think for the most part, but as people have been sharing their rankings now with TLJ out I have seen some where it is way lower

 

[BrianL]

I thought Empire was universally the favorite of everyone; that literally everyone thought that and then it was figuring out the rest of the order.

Nope. Not at all. ESB is by far my least favorite of the OT, and if I rank them all, it's below some of the others as well. Darker does not equal Better for me. I probably have unconventional tastes when it comes to Star Wars though. The middle of both trilogies has been my least favorite so far.