What would you do? Renter wants to cancel.

[Evita_W]

It seems odd to have two unexpected pregnancies, with a trip scheduled exactly for the due date, with the same general time frame. Hopefully they’re not actually the same situation.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/issue-with-my-renter.3830817/#post-62812545

Based on comments on the other thread, it doesn't sound like they are and it isn't all that unusual and I think it will continue to happen more often over the next few months to year. I mean many people have been stuck at home for the past year or so.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Although we may NEVER know the conclusion of CarolinaMike's situation, I want to share an interesting update.

A few months ago, I made a rental for 11 months out for a family and recently received an email from the husband that his wife is pregnant and the due date is now the same week as their reservation and obviously needs to cancel the original date reservation. Fortunately, I used points with a generous amount of time before they expire and can even be banked if needed. I was happy to make a change to the dates, but did not offer a cash refund. I can't imaging any DVC owner sticking to their "no change" rules in their contracts when faced with a situation like this. I understand that some DVC members would NOT change a reservation even with a pregnancy,, but I was happy to help out and this was a win-win situation.

Just as an FYI, you don't need to come back to this thread and let everyone know each time you change a reservation for an owner.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Based on comments on the other thread, it doesn't sound like they are and it isn't all that unusual and I think it will continue to happen more often over the next few months to year. I mean many people have been stuck at home for the past year or so.

And alcohol sales are up. Combine wine with boredom...

 

[Chuck S]

It seems odd to have two unexpected pregnancies, with a trip scheduled exactly for the due date, with the same general time frame. Hopefully they’re not actually the same situation.

Remember, February was extremely cold, people were stuck inside. I'll bet a lot of uhhh..things happened unexpectedly.

 

[robinb]

We get it. You’re an awesome renter. And an even more amazing human being.

What you don’t seem to get is that such concessions should be a choice on the part of the owner as a courtesy to their renter. Your constant judgement when people choose to do otherwise, publicly undermines the value of entering into a contractual agreement, which I’m willing to bet you still require renters to sign every time you rent to them despite all your awesomeness.

With one of the few rentals I have ever done, my renter experienced a hugely tragic loss in her life shortly before a scheduled trip and was certain she would need to cancel the trip.

I felt zero contractual obligation to do anything for this renter. I felt no moral obligation to do anything for this renter. What I did feel was that it was within my ability to help this person, and I did exactly that of my own volition.

The only reason I have a grey DVC Gold button on my profile is because I didn’t average enough posts here over the previous several months, so I had to pay out of pocket to get a membership just to re-rent her points on the rent/trade boards. Not only did I take the time to try and re-rent her points, but when she later decided she would take the trip solo in memory of her mother, I used some of my own points to stalk over several days religiously, doing split reservations, and calling up MS to combine reservations, to put her into a Boardwalk view room so that she could sit on the balcony each evening and enjoy the view; an activity she and her mother did on every trip in the past. I also arranged so that there would be something special for her when she checked in. I spared her of all the behind-the-scenes action as she had enough on her plate.

I had zero obligation to do any of that but chose to because I wanted to.

But before doing all of that, what I also did was ask her to provide a written statement stating that I am relieved of any further obligation on the contract; that the contract was considered satisfied. I would make an effort, under no obligation, to re-rent the points to allow her to recover some of her loss. I did this because CONTRACTS MATTER.

So you can keep your gold stars for when you pat yourself on the back. Just think twice about admonishing those who don’t agree with your philosophy around pliant contracts. Plenty of us who believe in doing the right thing also respect the contract we sign when we enter a legally binding agreement.

I guess I'm missing the point of your rebuttal to DVC Doctor . That you have a contract but when your renter's mother died you acted in a humane manner? Well, that's exactly what he's been saying all along. Have a contract and stand by it but still act like a human and show compassion when something goes wrong for the renter.

Believe me, you would not have as many "thumbs up" on your post had you shared that you had a contract and did nothing for your renter when her mother died because your had "zero obligation" to do so and "CONTRACTS MATTER".

 

[Marionnette]

I guess I'm missing the point of your rebuttal to DVC Doctor . That you have a contract but when your renter's mother died you acted in a humane manner? Well, that's exactly what he's been saying all along. Have a contract and stand by it but still act like a human and show compassion when something goes wrong for the renter.

Believe me, you would not have as many "thumbs up" on your post had you shared that you had a contract and did nothing for your renter when her mother died because your had "zero obligation" to do so and "CONTRACTS MATTER".

I think that what rubs me the wrong way is the self-congratulatory pat on the back that the PP has inserted into almost every post in this thread, coupled with a tinge of judgment for those who don't follow suit.

And maybe, there's a bit of self-promotion in the mix. Just my impression and hence the for @Bing Showei 's post.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess I'm missing the point of your rebuttal to DVC Doctor . That you have a contract but when your renter's mother died you acted in a humane manner? Well, that's exactly what he's been saying all along. Have a contract and stand by it but still act like a human and show compassion when something goes wrong for the renter.

Believe me, you would not have as many "thumbs up" on your post had you shared that you had a contract and did nothing for your renter when her mother died because your had "zero obligation" to do so and "CONTRACTS MATTER".

Actually, my like had to do with the holding to a contract aspect. So, I am not sure you can assume the thumbs up is because people agree an owner should be willing to do it a certain way.

 

[robinb]

Actually, my like had to do with the holding to a contract aspect. So, I am not sure you can assume the thumbs up is because people agree an owner should be willing to do it a certain way.

Hmmm. But he didn't hold the renter to the contract.

 

[Sandisw]

Hmmm. But he didn't hold the renter to the contract.

I know that, but I was just staying that you can’t assume that was the part people liked. . He didn’t hold to the contract, but the summary of the post was that contracts do matter and that constantly mentioning that owners who are not flexible are wrong.

I have said, if owners want to be flexible, more power to them. I just personally think it’s a little unnecessary to subtly criticize owners who don’t by posting how great it is when they did.

 

[Bing Showei]

Hmmm. But he didn't hold the renter to the contract.

Before cancelling her reservation, I made her declare explicitly that she is releasing me from any further obligation and that she considered the contract fulfilled. At that point, I had zero liability and there was no need for me to do anything further. That's the point. As the renter, she fully acknowledged the contract she signed. That's the respect people should have for a legal document when they put their signature on it.

We can go into all kinds of "what if" scenarios on both sides.
"What if a renter loses a family member?"
"What if work required a renter forego their vacation?"
"What if the renter lost his job?"
"What if the renter decides they don't want to travel in a pandemic because they are high risk?"
"What if the renter decides they don't want to travel in a pandemic because they got a better deal to rent from Disney?"

Or on the owner side:
"What if the owner was just fired and now earns money trying to drive for Uber in a pandemic?"
"What if the owner just lost their father and was dealing with that?"
"What if the owner had used banked points that expire shortly after the rental?"
"What if the owner had no interest in dealing with having to re-list a rental on the board?"
"What if the owner doesn't want to deal with any of it because they're cooped up, stuck in Canada, and can't even get their own *** to Disney?"

Which "what if" on the renter side is reasonable to expect owners to make a concessions on? Which "what if" on the owner side is reasonable to deny any concessions. To me, it's simple. It's up to the owner to decide what they want to do when a renter wants to break their lease. The owner and renter entered into an agreement that clearly states the terms that both parties agreed to abide by. The renter read and signed that contract. Whatever the reason is that an owner chooses not to diverge from their contract, it's their right.

If a renter doesn't like the terms of a rental contract, they should either amend the terms, or not rent from that owner. Looking for concessions after a contract is signed should never be expected, and owners should not need to justify to any poster which "What if" they are dealing with.

The repeated, self-serving, holier-than-thou posts that you keep cheerleading seem like nothing more than masked marketing for the awesomeness of renting from such a swell owner and active DISboard contributor. But in the process of doing so, it undermines the idea that contracts should not be signed if people are not willing to abide by the terms of those contracts.

 

[robinb]

Before cancelling her reservation, I made her declare explicitly that she is releasing me from any further obligation and that she considered the contract fulfilled.

I actually thought that was a good way of doing things. I filed it away for future reference.

We can go into all kinds of "what if" scenarios on both sides.
"What if a renter loses a family member?"
"What if work required a renter forego their vacation?"
"What if the renter lost his job?"
"What if the renter decides they don't want to travel in a pandemic because they are high risk?"
"What if the renter decides they don't want to travel in a pandemic because they got a better deal to rent from Disney?"

Or on the owner side:
"What if the owner was just fired and now earns money trying to drive for Uber in a pandemic?"
"What if the owner just lost their father and was dealing with that?"
"What if the owner had used banked points that expire shortly after the rental?"
"What if the owner had no interest in dealing with having to re-list a rental on the board?"
"What if the owner doesn't want to deal with any of it because they're cooped up, stuck in Canada, and can't even get their own *** to Disney?"

Which "what if" on the renter side is reasonable to expect owners to make a concessions on? Which "what if" on the owner side is reasonable to deny any concessions. To me, it's simple. It's up to the owner to decide what they want to do when a renter wants to break their lease. The owner and renter entered into an agreement that clearly states the terms that both parties agreed to abide by. The renter read and signed that contract. Whatever the reason is that an owner chooses not to diverge from their contract, it's their right.

If a renter doesn't like the terms of a rental contract, they should either amend the terms, or not rent from that owner. Looking for concessions after a contract is signed should never be expected, and owners should not need to justify to any poster which "What if" they are dealing with.

You can come up with "what if" situations until the cows come home. Most of them can be solved with a little flexibility on both sides while keeping the DVC owner whole. The only that can't be worked out is the complete refusal for the DVC owner to bend at all. I'll say right now that I find that disgraceful to stick a renter with a reservation that they cannot use. I think there is a vast difference between standing behind your contract and hiding behind it.

As for the terms of the contract, I would say that many renters don't even know that they owners have different terms or that they can negotiate better terms. They just go with what's offered to them and agree with something they may not usually agree to because they are conditioned to expect a "no cancelation, no changes" contract. I'm not saying that's right, but it does happen more often than not.

The repeated, self-serving, holier-than-thou posts that you keep cheerleading seem like nothing more than masked marketing for the awesomeness of renting from such a swell owner and active DISboard contributor. But in the process of doing so, it undermines the idea that contracts should not be signed if people are not willing to abide by the terms of those contracts.

Meh. I don't see any difference between between him mentioning his flexible terms and higher pricing than other posters mentioning their strict terms and lower pricing. Frankly, if you're worried about him taking business from you because he has more flexible terms, then maybe it's time to review your terms to attract more renters.

 

[Sandisw]

I actually thought that was a good way of doing things. I filed it away for future reference.



You can come up with "what if" situations until the cows come home. Most of them can be solved with a little flexibility on both sides while keeping the DVC owner whole. The only that can't be worked out is the complete refusal for the DVC owner to bend at all. I'll say right now that I find that disgraceful to stick a renter with a reservation that they cannot use. I think there is a vast difference between standing behind your contract and hiding behind it.

As for the terms of the contract, I would say that many renters don't even know that they owners have different terms or that they can negotiate better terms. They just go with what's offered to them and agree with something they may not usually agree to because they are conditioned to expect a "no cancelation, no changes" contract. I'm not saying that's right, but it does happen more often than not.


Meh. I don't see any difference between between him mentioning his flexible terms and higher pricing than other posters mentioning their strict terms and lower pricing. Frankly, if you're worried about him taking business from you because he has more flexible terms, then maybe it's time to review your terms to attract more renters.

Do you really believe that most renters can’t understand the terms of a contract?

I guess I just don’t get why some feel they get to dictate how others rent their points. Maybe that is the difference. I think when people make a decision that has risks, they should be willing to accept them. Travel insurance exists for a reason...and yet, how many renters actually take it out? If they do, then other than the pandemic, all these reasons for needing to cancel or change should be covered.

This thread started with someone wanting ideas on what they should do and I’ll say it again, there is no right or wrong way to rent. One is not better than the other unless an owner fails to be upfront and honest with the renter.

We can just agree to disagree.

 

[robinb]

Do you really believe that most renters can’t understand the terms of a contract?

I didn't say that. I believe that renters don't understand that they have options and that a different DVC member will give them different terms so they simply sign up with the first person who finds them a reservation. They don't know that they "no cancel, no changes" isn't the only game in town.

I guess I just don’t get why some feel they get to dictate how others rent their points. Maybe that is the difference. I think when people make a decision that has risks, they should be willing to accept them. Travel insurance exists for a reason...and yet, how many renters actually take it out? If they do, then other than the pandemic, all these reasons for needing to cancel or change should be covered.

You know as well as I do that travel insurance does not exist for these private transactions.

This thread started with someone wanting ideas on what they should do and I’ll say it again, there is no right or wrong way to rent. One is not better than the other unless an owner fails to be upfront and honest with the renter.

We can just agree to disagree.

 

[Sandisw]

I didn't say that. I believe that renters don't understand that they have options and that a different DVC member will give them different terms so they simply sign up with the first person who finds them a reservation. They don't know that they "no cancel, no changes" isn't the only game in town.

You know as well as I do that travel insurance does not exist for these private transactions.

Okay. I’m glad I misunderstood about the renters. I always make sure when giving advice to tell them that owners have different terms so to be sure you find one that matches your needs

Interesting about Insurance because the brokers all recommend it?

 

[robinb]

Okay. I’m glad I misunderstood about the renters. I always make sure when giving advice to tell them that owners have different terms so to be sure you find one that matches your needs

Interesting about Insurance because the brokers all recommend it?

I believe the renter's insurance is able to be offered and sold because the broker is an intermediary business. I don't know of any company that would insure a private transaction.

 

[Matty B13]

I think most renters are uninformed about how DVC really works, and usually go with the owners who have points at the resort they want and have to work with the owner that is offering the points.

Also, a lot of them just go with the "lowest" price and have no clue how this might affect their reservation.

This is why the contract is important, and clearly states the terms of the rental.

 

[Evita_W]

I think that what rubs me the wrong way is the self-congratulatory pat on the back that the PP has inserted into almost every post in this thread, coupled with a tinge of judgment for those who don't follow suit.

And maybe, there's a bit of self-promotion in the mix. Just my impression and hence the for @Bing Showei 's post.

I saw no self congratulatory or judgement there, simply stating what they would do. This really shows how hard it can be to properly convey emotions and such via text and emojis and why online really can't replace in person, face to face meetings and such.

 

[Marionnette]

I saw no self congratulatory or judgement there, simply stating what they would do. This really shows how hard it can be to properly convey emotions and such via text and emojis and why online really can't replace in person, face to face meetings and such.

If it was said once, I would agree with you. It was posted repeatedly and actually bumped this thread back up for discussion after it had run its course, only for the purpose of pointing out (again) how flexible the PP is with his rentals. That's what doesn't sit well with me.

 

[crisi]

Many travel insurance companies will cover a private rental as long as you can provide a contract that spells out the details. Which is part of the reason I'm firmly no cancellations, if it wasn't important enough to the renter to get travel insurance, then its not important enough for me to spend my time. And if its a cancellation not covered by travel insurance, then it isn't something I want to cover either.

 

[DVC Doctor]

We get it. You’re an awesome renter. And an even more amazing human being.

Why THANK YOU, that is very magnanimous of you. I am deeply and profoundly honored by your munificent post.

Thank you for saying this! I’m pretty confident the OP never came back because of how critical some of the posts were toward even suggesting they should expect a contract to be honored !

Somehow, I highly doubt that the OP is avoiding this thread as it would be so simple to post an update and it really does not matter if they made a modification or not as that is their choice.

When it comes to DVC rental contracts, WE ALL ARE PLAYING LAWYERS and so far, nobody has posted anything here about actually trying to enforce a contract in a court of law between two parties. From what I know about law, NOTHING is guaranteed and any rookie lawyer could probably blow holes in most DVC rental contracts. So we can't assume, just because someone downloaded some version of a contract that is it enforceable or winnable. Of course having a written agreement is valuable, but it does not mean DVC owners can hide behind an onerous one-sided agreement that states NO CHANGES when we all know changes are possible, but some people may not want to do that.