The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[Intr3pid]

Pfizer CEO is now officially talking about the boosters within 12 months.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfi...cine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html
The highlights:
* A third dose or a booster will likely be needed in about 12 months
* Possibly an annual vaccination drive like that for the flu shots

If most of the general public in North America and Europe is vaccinated by this summer or early fall, it means the booster will have to be taken by summer or early fall 2022. I imagine this is in response to the ongoing data coming out against the variants.

It also means that full vaccination may no longer be sufficient for, say, cruises requiring them. You will need a timestamp of your vaccination too!

The production and supply of the vaccines is looking much better later in this year and all of the next. We will hopefully see the AZ and J&J vaccines either modified or in the clear by then. Plus, those currently in Phase 3 such as Novavax and GSK should also receive their approvals this year.

BioNTech's chief medical officer is echoing Pfizer CEO's earlier comments about the need for boosters and seasonal shots due to the possible waning immunity:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/21/sci...s-third-shot-is-needed-as-immunity-wanes.html
This leads us into the a new set of questions, such as:

1. What proportion of the population will agree to the third or seasonal shots? A greater hesitancy against the boosters is very likely for a variety of reasons - and particularly if treatments such as tablets get their approvals. We still need more data on how long the protection will actually last.

2. Will the cruise lines that are currently requiring vaccination require boosters too? Over time, as the pandemic eases, restrictions go away. Cruise lines have had near-death experiences, however, and that might move them to keep their restrictions on for longer than the others.

3. What will be the timing of administering the boosters? For travel in general, having everyone's immune system boosted before summer 2022 will be great - but it's absolutely essential for cruise lines who make almost 2/3rd of their annual profits in the summer season.

 

[DCLMP]

Statistically the rate of death from covid-19 itself is much higher than the risk of death from the vaccines*. I'm not a gambler... I don't have it in me. If there was something I could easily do to greatly mitigate my risk of death from everything else on the chart as well, I'd do it. In fact, when they released the HPV vaccine I got it. Still waiting on something to come out for the myriad of others...

*"Over 211 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 3,486 reports of death (0.0016%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." It is vital to note that this figure includes EVERY person who has been vaccinated and died, regardless of cause. I am not sure there is an official figure for people who died due to the vaccine itself; there are some very notable deaths that very could well be, such as the unfortunate people who died due to blood clotting that is being investigated. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

View attachment 569580
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_totaldeaths

I never said the vaccines were dangerous. I don’t understand why your bringing up Covid deaths vs vaccine deaths. If a healthy person doesn’t want I the vaccine no one should be saying they are underestimating the risks of Covid. The numbers and the stats dont back that up.

 

[anricat]

I never said the vaccines were dangerous. I don’t understand why your bringing up Covid deaths vs vaccine deaths. If a healthy person doesn’t want I the vaccine no one should be saying they are underestimating the risks of Covid. The numbers and the stats dont back that up.

Why would a healthy person NOT want the vaccine? If they don't, then, I'm sorry, but they are, in fact, WAY underestimating the risks of Covid. Just as an anecdote, as a fitness instructor, I'm on multiple Facebook groups for instructors (I think you would argue that most of us are "healthy") and the number of them that are struggling with long Covid is astounding to me. If it wouldn't take me forever to black out everyone's name, I could show you threads that would make you seriously reassess some of your statements. There lives are forever altered. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if 10, 20, 30 years down the road, we aren't dealing with millions of people with all sorts of health issues from having had Covid. My friend who is a radiologist says that he does mostly orthopedic radiology, but he's seeing permanent lung damage showing up on scans for otherwise healthy people, many of whom never even knew they had it! That's a rough conversation, I'm sure. "Oh hey, you had Covid and your lungs are forever damaged!" "Uh. Wut?"

I don't have stats at hand, but the risks of long Covid are very real. I'm sorry, but the risks of complicates from Covid far and away are much much greater than those from any of the available vaccines. Even for a "healthy" person (however you're defining that).

 

[DCLMP]

Why would a healthy person NOT want the vaccine? If they don't, then, I'm sorry, but they are, in fact, WAY underestimating the risks of Covid. Just as an anecdote, as a fitness instructor, I'm on multiple Facebook groups for instructors (I think you would argue that most of us are "healthy") and the number of them that are struggling with long Covid is astounding to me. If it wouldn't take me forever to black out everyone's name, I could show you threads that would make you seriously reassess some of your statements. There lives are forever altered. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if 10, 20, 30 years down the road, we aren't dealing with millions of people with all sorts of health issues from having had Covid. My friend who is a radiologist says that he does mostly orthopedic radiology, but he's seeing permanent lung damage showing up on scans for otherwise healthy people, many of whom never even knew they had it! That's a rough conversation, I'm sure. "Oh hey, you had Covid and your lungs are forever damaged!" "Uh. Wut?"

I don't have stats at hand, but the risks of long Covid are very real. I'm sorry, but the risks of complicates from Covid far and away are much much greater than those from any of the available vaccines. Even for a "healthy" person (however you're defining that).

I have dozens of friends and family including myself that aren't struggling after Covid. Our personal experiences are all antidotal. I would need to see stats, not just assumptions about what may or may not happen 10 to 30 years from now. I'm not against the vaccine. I spent 2 months working at a vaccine site. I am an advocate for people being able to make their own decisions and I don't think this should be another issue that divides people.

 

[Intr3pid]

I have dozens of friends and family including myself that aren't struggling after Covid. Our personal experiences are all antidotal. I would need to see stats, not just assumptions about what may or may not happen 10 to 30 years from now. I'm not against the vaccine. I spent 2 months working at a vaccine site. I am an advocate for people being able to make their own decisions and I don't think this should be another issue that divides people.

Anecdotes aside, there is research in place on the COVID long haulers - as we chatted about in this thread a few months back:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/05/lon...nable-to-return-to-work-six-months-later.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/09/cov...-year-to-recover-says-mayo-clinic-doctor.html
But, that's boring stuff. It's not going to change what I want to think:

 

[hrhdhd]

Persuasion theory tells us that mocking someone's beliefs is no way to influence.

Are there a few people who are conspiracy theorists? Sure, but that applies to every issue. The larger group of people who are expressing reluctance to receive a dose or doses of experimental vaccines have reasons other than "boogey man!"

 

[Henlady]

My personal opinion is this;
Get the vaccine or don’t. But when private business (like cruises) require customers to be vaccinated and your not vaccinated don’t cry/complain about not being able to participate. Your choice was not to be vaccinated. You are responsible for the end result of your choice.

 

[DCLMP]

My personal opinion is this;
Get the vaccine or don’t. But when private business (like cruises) require customers to be vaccinated and your not vaccinated don’t cry/complain about not being able to participate. Your choice was not to be vaccinated. You are responsible for the end result of your choice.

You just opened a can of worms. LOL.

 

[hrhdhd]

My personal opinion is this;
Get the vaccine or don’t. But when private business (like cruises) require customers to be vaccinated and your not vaccinated don’t cry/complain about not being able to participate. Your choice was not to be vaccinated. You are responsible for the end result of your choice.

I totally agree on private companies making decisions about vaccine requirements.

I dislike the patronizing tone of those who may disagree with people's personal decisions about their health.

 

[Henlady]

You just opened a can of worms. LOL.

Wouldn’t be the first time

 

[Henlady]

I totally agree on private companies making decisions about vaccine requirements.

I dislike the patronizing tone of those who may disagree with people's personal decisions about their health.

It was not ment to be in a patronizing tone. I was simply stating a fact. We all make our own decisions based on individual needs/beliefs.

 

[hrhdhd]

It was not ment to be in a patronizing tone. I was simply stating a fact. We all make our own decisions based on individual needs/beliefs.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to your post but to others' posts earlier in the thread.

 

[cgolf]

Sorry, I wasn't referring to your post but to others' posts earlier in the thread.

My personal belief is pro vaccine and if someone asks I will give opinions on why it is good to get it. To reach herd immunity we need a certain percent to get it. I may mention what is happening elsewhere where the vaccine rollout is not a successful for them to research etc, but I won't push too much. Will I ever tell a person directly to get it or not be friends with them anymore heck no! It is still a choice to get it or not. Early on I had some concerns about safety as well, they are still there but just less. I just hope that we reach a level such that we achieve herd immunity, time will tell.

 

[DCLMP]

My personal belief is pro vaccine and if someone asks I will give opinions on why it is good to get it. To reach herd immunity we need a certain percent to get it. I may mention what is happening elsewhere where the vaccine rollout is not a successful for them to research etc, but I won't push too much. Will I ever tell a person directly to get it or not be friends with them anymore heck no! It is still a choice to get it or not. Early on I had some concerns about safety as well, they are still there but just less. I just hope that we reach a level such that we achieve herd immunity, time will tell.

At least this board is moderated and people have to be civil. On other forums and social media sites not so much.

 

[tidefan]

You just opened a can of worms. LOL.

Wouldn’t be the first time

Just wait until the "what should I tip" threads start once servers move up from $2.13/hour + tips to $15.00 per hour...

 

[Intr3pid]

Persuasion theory tells us that mocking someone's beliefs is no way to influence.

If the last one year has taught us anything it is that persuading someone with reason is futile if they want to believe something else.

 

[jerry557]

My personal opinion is this;
Get the vaccine or don’t. But when private business (like cruises) require customers to be vaccinated and your not vaccinated don’t cry/complain about not being able to participate. Your choice was not to be vaccinated. You are responsible for the end result of your choice.

But where do you draw the line? Cruise lines are one thing, but what about schools and places of employment? When you make it a requirement just to exist in society and not become homeless, then it’s not really much of a choice at all.

 

[DCLMP]

If the last one year has taught us anything it is that persuading someone with reason is futile if they want to believe something else.

Yes, and the one thats trying to persuade always assumes their the reasonable one.

 

[TestingH2O]

Cruise lines are one thing, but what about schools and places of employment?

Schools, in general, are not private businesses and already require a host of vaccines. (Yes there are exceptions and ways around it, but the requirement still exists.)

Places of employment have all kinds of requirements. Many hospitals already require the flu shot. Catholic schools often require teachers to be Catholic.

Once the vaccine gets full approval, there are plenty of examples of similar requirements yet no one is saying that Catholic schools have made them homeless because they can’t work there.How things play out while still under EUA, I don’t know.

Saying that having vaccine requirement is going to lead to everyone living on the street is an awfully big leap.

 

[mevelandry]

I totally agree on private companies making decisions about vaccine requirements.

I dislike the patronizing tone of those who may disagree with people's personal decisions about their health.

Hypothesis: the idea of having someone they love getting infected (with a whole spectrum of potential consequences) or suffering collateral damage (like postponement of surgeries) because of « someone else’s personal choice » is making some of us a tiny bit emotional?