Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[cakebaker]

I really do believe that the majority on here are upset because over the years they have figured out how to game the system to take full advantage of all the perks, (and there’s nothing wrong with that), I enjoy doing it myself. Recently Disney has been changing the systems, so that the select few don’t abuse it and cause issues for everyone else. I’m not thrilled about learning how to game their system all over again, it completely understand why this is necessary

I think that was absolutely true when they introduced FP+. While FP+ wasn't perfect, it did end the ability to stack up piles of passes to ride the popular rides over and over while locking others out completely. But just making yourself familiar with how a system works and using it to it's full advantage isn't gaming the system and it's not abusing it. As long as you're within the rules Disney sets, you aren't gaming anything.

I'm going to be interested to watch and see what others learn about using Genie+ to it's full potential. Those guests who choose to go in blind can and should expect to have a lesser experience. That's true with almost anything in life.

But in this case, I think the vast majority of those complaining now aren't doing it because they won't know how to game the system. I'm not all that worked up about it, don't like it but I can live with it, but I think most of the complaints are based on very valid reasons.

 

[Yahweh]

You post seems to reflect the feelings of the lifers on these boards. I would say that they represent the minority of people who visit Disney world. I would say the majority of casual guests wouldn’t know what the skyline was, unless they had already experienced it, and yes I do believe the headliners sell the park, you’re crazy if you think star wars land hasn’t drawn a larger crowd to the parks than the skyliner. I do agree that magical express is something guests will definitely miss, but it made zero financial Sense, with all the demand Disney has had, and no I do not believe any typical person would cancel a trip because the magical express is gone, it was a nice perk, but not a make or break. Wait times could cause people to not return and I think that is partially the reason Disney is rolling out the genie

Your right that Galaxy's Edge draws people into the park more than Magical Express or the Skyliner, especially first-time visitors!

But the question is, how many people does Pandora and Galaxy's edge bring back for a second visit, or a third, etc.? Especially when the ability to experience these lands is so limited and soon to be more costly with Genie +

WDW's long-term financial sustainability is dependent upon repeat visitation. It's one thing to entice new visitors to come, but it's another to create loyalty to the brand. I think this is where you might see WDW's current strategy of taking as much money as quickly as possible will backfire in a few years.

 

[amylevan]

I really do believe that the majority on here are upset because over the years they have figured out how to game the system to take full advantage of all the perks, (and there’s nothing wrong with that), I enjoy doing it myself. Recently Disney has been changing the systems, so that the select few don’t abuse it and cause issues for everyone else. I’m not thrilled about learning how to game their system all over again, it completely understand why this is necessary

Or people are upset that something that has been included in the price of admission since 1999 - over 20 years! - is now going to cost a minimum of $15/pp/day for the tier 2 rides…and even more for the rides that it is almost necessary for.

And no, you don’t need to buy it if your unhappy - but as noted, people have been going to WDW for over 20 years with it. People have been upset all summer about the lines and no FP option. So yeah, people are unhappy.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I agree and I said this over the Disneyland California Genie thread

"Before the shutdown, mobile ordering and Maxpass / free Fastpass worked so well for those of us that used them because we were the minority. We were able to game the system and come up with all sorts of hacks and tricks because the % of people using them was so low. So many people didn't even know that Fastpass was free and just accepted waiting in standby lines.

Those of us on Disboards who research and plan and study things like crowd patterns are a very small % of the people in the parks on any given day.

I see the same thing happening with Genie, Genie+ and Lightening Lane. The low % of people using the new systems on any given day , for whatever reason, will actually benefit those of us who will use it. "

you got it, everyone is sad for themselves on this topic in particular, but no ones been talking about the rest of the crowd.

I think people are upset because Walt Disney World is already the most expensive theme park vacation on the planet, and yet Disney has done a lot of nickel-and-diming over the last few years:

1. Charging for hotel parking when it used to be included in the price of the hotel.
2. Increased hotel rates a lot even though parking is no longer included.
3. Ended free MagicBands for onsite Guests.
4. Ended Disney's Magical Express. (Now that was a great benefit!)
5. Greatly cut back on Extra Magic Hours and then limited what's left to Deluxe Resort Guests only.
6. Theme park parking is now up to $25 per day.
7. Jacked up ticket, food, and beverage prices.
8. Ended the free FastPass+ and replaced it with something that could cost as much as $60 per person per day.

Yeah, I understand why people are upset.

would you have rather seen those increases reflected directly in ticket price. Every business raises rates every year, if they didn’t they would be closing their doors pretty quickly. So yes unfortunately removing benefits, and charging what looks to be industry standard pricing on other things would make the most financial sense, especially with the demand Disney has seen over the last for years. I just feel like if all these prices were dumped into a higher ticket price it would be more palatable for most in these boards, but for me personally, I don’t mind picking and choosing what charges will affect me

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Your right that Galaxy's Edge draws people into the park more than Magical Express or the Skyliner, especially first-time visitors!

But the question is, how many people does Pandora and Galaxy's edge bring back for a second visit, or a third, etc.? Especially when the ability to experience these lands is so limited and soon to be more costly with Genie +

WDW's long-term financial sustainability is dependent upon repeat visitation. It's one thing to entice new visitors to come, but it's another to create loyalty to the brand. I think this is where you might see WDW's current strategy of taking as much money as quickly as possible will backfire in a few years.

I disagree respectfully, Disney has an endless supply of first time guests, new families are created every year, and those families are always potential first timers, Disney should not cater to the small minority of loyal guests. In my opinion these loyal guests have games their system to the point of needing to relaunching a lot of their systems. I think you can see this reflected in limits per purchase, and Disney genie, to name a few. I believe the loyal guests have taken over Disney’s system, and Disney is attempting to take it back. Now I don’t believe that’s the only reason they’re doing this, but I do believe it is partially why. If it wasn’t broken they wouldn’t have to fix it

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think that was absolutely true when they introduced FP+. While FP+ wasn't perfect, it did end the ability to stack up piles of passes to ride the popular rides over and over while locking others out completely. But just making yourself familiar with how a system works and using it to it's full advantage isn't gaming the system and it's not abusing it. As long as you're within the rules Disney sets, you aren't gaming anything.

I'm going to be interested to watch and see what others learn about using Genie+ to it's full potential. Those guests who choose to go in blind can and should expect to have a lesser experience. That's true with almost anything in life.

But in this case, I think the vast majority of those complaining now aren't doing it because they won't know how to game the system. I'm not all that worked up about it, don't like it but I can live with it, but I think most of the complaints are based on very valid reasons.

I agree that you wouldn’t be doing anything wrong by learning how their system works, I believe Disney has found weaknesses in their system where we find strengths. For that reason alone, I think they had to retool/ relaunch “fast pass” to keep the few from damaging the many. Btw gaming doesn’t mean you’re doing anything wrong, I use it more of a “taking full advantage of any system”

 

[Liquidice]

would you have rather seen those increases reflected directly in ticket price. Every business raises rates every year, if they didn’t they would be closing their doors pretty quickly. So yes unfortunately removing benefits, and charging what looks to be industry standard pricing on other things would make the most financial sense, especially with the demand Disney has seen over the last for years. I just feel like if all these prices were dumped into a higher ticket price it would be more palatable for most in these boards, but for me personally, I don’t mind picking and choosing what charges will affect me

I honestly think I'd be happier with higher ticket prices and perks not going away. DME might have been an exception because we don't know what happened between Mears and Disney, maybe Mears was holding Disney hostage and made the price too high that it was unacceptable.

Some of perks can't really be replaced like the Evening Magic Hours (I mean I guess you can stay Deluxe or DVC) and some would argue the 30 min morning Extra Hours is not as good (they even stopped calling them Magical - like they're admitting the new offering has lost the magic ... just kidding haha).

Although one potential positive of DME going away is it will be easier to get off property with a rental car and you can save money eating at a much cheaper offsite restaurant.

I think it is the perspective similar to the dining plan - even though the dining plan may not actually offer a discount, you know going in what you're paying and what you're getting. With FP+ I knew what I was getting ahead of time, with Genie+ and LL+ I don't even know how much the Lightning Lane will be before I leave for the trip.

It would even be easier to swallow if it were just Genie+ and included all of the rides - but instead there's this variable pricing. It still speaks to the overall value though and that is a piece I can't get past. Yes competitors have a similar pay to skip the line system, but Disney is the most expensive theme park destination - especially if you want the "full" experience staying on-site, etc. It also made Disney a stand-out amongst others, that they gave everyone a skip the line pass with your ticket entry.

Yes there were issues with FP+ that supposedly gets fixed with Genie+ (that remains to be seen since we don't know what the limits will be) - but imho Disney should have addressed the overcrowding issues directly (building lands with higher capacity attractions, like a theater show, build a 5th gate, etc) - All of those things take planning but the writing has been on the walls for a long time. Instead they're asking us pay if we want to "work around" the overcrowding issue to skip the line.

There's still a lot we don't know about Genie+ and LL+ so I'm still taking a wait and see approach - but my current opinion is I don't like it.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Or people are upset that something that has been included in the price of admission since 1999 - over 20 years! - is now going to cost a minimum of $15/pp/day for the tier 2 rides…and even more for the rides that it is almost necessary for.

And no, you don’t need to buy it if your unhappy - but as noted, people have been going to WDW for over 20 years with it. People have been upset all summer about the lines and no FP option. So yeah, people are unhappy.

by this logic ticket books should still exist. I wouldn’t blame no fast passes on the genie coming out, I see it more of a pandemic issue that they decided to just keep closed instead of reopening for a few months, and then changing over to Genie. I cannot imagine the firestorm on these boards if that happened haha

 

[Dis Dragon]

The first time visitor vs returning is an interesting argument. I know the first time we went, we looked at the cost of staying on property (we still had the reasonable pricing glasses on at that time) was outrageous so we stayed off property. Everything was insanely expensive. After the first couple of trips we became insensitive to the cost because of our experience and deemed it worthwhile. Now dropping thousands isn't an even a second thought when booking a vacation at WDW, I'm not sure how many first time visitors have that same mentality. I was commenting to my wife at how you really have to take a step back into reality with pricing when you're used to paying 5-800 dollars a night for these properties, and 12-20 dollars for a fast food hamburger.

As far as the ticket prices, they really have clouded increases with the date based pricing. Tickets have increased, they just are obfuscated now - and they will continue to be so. So there will be people saying they haven't increased ticket prices so don't complain, but in actuality they have just because the "base" ticket for that one day hasn't moved, everything else has shifted to be more expensive.

 

[Liquidice]

I disagree respectfully, Disney has an endless supply of first time guests, new families are created every year, and those families are always potential first timers, Disney should not cater to the small minority of loyal guests. In my opinion these loyal guests have games their system to the point of needing to relaunching a lot of their systems. I think you can see this reflected in limits per purchase, and Disney genie, to name a few. I believe the loyal guests have taken over Disney’s system, and Disney is attempting to take it back. Now I don’t believe that’s the only reason they’re doing this, but I do believe it is partially why. If it wasn’t broken they wouldn’t have to fix it

There seems to be some conflicting evidence on not caring about loyal guests though - as DVC is definitely a loyal guest "club" and Disney has continued to build more DVC resorts and even convert hotel space to DVC space (Grand Floridian is the latest example). Disney does seem to want to create loyal guests by having people buy into DVC, unless they think they can just sell DVC points and then kick those people to the curb since they already paid their upfront fees to Disney - but I don't think thats the case (evidence at least so far being that they included DVC Villas in the evening extra hours Deluxe perk).

 

[Liquidice]

Sorry double post

 

[Dis Dragon]

I honestly think I'd be happier with higher ticket prices and perks not going away. MDE might have been an exception because we don't know what happened between Mears and Disney, maybe Mears was holding Disney hostage and made the price too high that it was unacceptable.

I think this might have more merit if taken on it own, with all the other changes that the company has been doing it makes it more unlikely this was the case. They have decided to run as lean as possible at the cost of guest experience.

 

[disneydreamer781]

dupe post

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

There seems to be some conflicting evidence on not caring about loyal guests though - as DVC is definitely a loyal guest "club" and Disney has continued to build more DVC resorts and even convert hotel space to DVC space (Grand Floridian is the latest example). Disney does seem to want to create loyal guests by having people buy into DVC, unless they think they can just sell DVC points and then kick those people to the curb since they already paid their upfront fees to Disney - but I don't think thats the case (evidence at least so far being that they included DVC Villas in the evening extra hours Deluxe perk).

I think DVC is targeted at an older group of guests who have a high expendable income, and would not be considered savvy enough to take full advantage of the tech heavy systems they have in place, just my opinion. Now when it comes to renting points, that’s an entirely different story, I believe a younger demographic rents points, and will take full advantage, considering renting points doesn’t seem to be that well understood by the gen pop. So it’s more of a double edged sword, Disney can’t remove point renting, it would destroy their system, but I can’t imagine they like the crowd who rents the points, myself included

 

[Liquidice]

I blatantly stole this image from James Craig in the Walt Disney World Adults Only Facebook Group, so I apologize for stealing it - but I think it is worth reposting to show how ticket prices have changed over the last 15 years or so but this goes back all the way to 1971 and is adjusted for inflation...



What you can see is that ticket prices adjusted for inflation in today's dollars have remained relatively stable from 1971 to 2005 or so (around $60-80 in today's dollars) and then have continuously gone up since then.

Note the pricing used is the most expensive 1-day ticket for that year.

It doesn't show or account for increases made to lodging, food, etc - but I think if you looked at those numbers too you'd see that those also have increased above inflation.

Now with perks being cut, it just backs up what I've been saying - you're getting less value for more money.

Yes, Disney is a business and yes they have a right to make money ... I've heard all that before. I'm not necessarily trying to shame Disney for making money - but what I'm trying to say is - you're getting less value for your dollar at Disney. If you're cool with that - then more power to you. But if this announcement didn't sit right with you - this is why imho. Its because over the past 15 years you've slowly but surely been getting less value for your dollar - even when you account for inflation.

BTW- What this also tells you is that Chapek isn't solely to blame - Iger is just as much to blame. Chapek is just doing it in a way that is more obvious to us

 

[Liquidice]

I think DVC is targeted at an older group of guests who have a high expendable income, and would not be considered savvy enough to take full advantage of the tech heavy systems they have in place, just my opinion. Now when it comes to renting points, that’s an entirely different story, I believe a younger demographic rents points, and will take full advantage, considering renting points doesn’t seem to be that well understood by the gen pop. So it’s more of a double edged sword, Disney can’t remove point renting, it would destroy their system, but I can’t imagine they like the crowd who rents the points, myself included

I think you just called me old and unable to use technology - and I work for an IT company haha ...

I have no clue what the DVC age demographic is like, but it seems like buyers are often ones who have young children and plan to go to Disney more often because their kids are at the "right age" to enjoy Disney. That is where I am, I'm definitely not young though - so you're probably somewhat right about the age group lol.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I blatantly stole this image from James Craig in the Walt Disney World Adults Only Group, so I apologize for stealing it - but I think it is worth reposting to show how ticket prices have changed over the last 15 years or so but this goes back all the way to 1971 and is adjusted for inflation...

View attachment 598801

What you can see is that ticket prices adjusted for inflation in today's dollars have remained relatively stable from 1971 to 2005 or so (around $60-80 in today's dollars) and then have continuously gone up since then.

Note the pricing used is the most expensive 1-day ticket for that year.

It doesn't show or account for increases made to lodging, food, etc - but I think if you looked at those numbers too you'd see that those also have increased above inflation.

Now with perks being cut, it just backs up what I've been saying - you're getting less value for more money.

Yes, Disney is a business and yes they have a right to make money ... I've heard all that before. I'm not necessarily trying to shame Disney for making money - but what I'm trying to say is - you're getting less value for your dollar at Disney. If you're cool with that - then more power to you. But if this announcement didn't sit right with you - this is why imho. Its because over the past 15 years you've slowly but surely been getting less value for your dollar - even when you account for inflation.

BTW- What this also tells you is that Chapek isn't solely to blame - Iger is just as much to blame. Chapek is just doing it in a way that is more obvious to us

what I would say to this, is
1 supply and demand.
2. Unless Disney was adding a new benefit every year, you are always getting less value for your dollar. It’s why pricing on everything goes up from year to year, for instance a bag of chips, same bag, higher cost year over year.
3. I would argue that Disney has created value by adding to their parks, Star Wars land, the skyliner, toy story land, new fantasyland, countless restaurants, and hotels… and I feel like I’m just scratching the surface.

Just because you personally feel like value hasn’t been added, doesn’t mean you are correct

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think you just called me old and unable to use technology - and I work for an IT company haha ...

I have no clue what the DVC age demographic is like, but it seems like buyers are often ones who have young children and plan to go to Disney more often because their kids are at the "right age" to enjoy Disney. That is where I am, I'm definitely not young though - so you're probably somewhat right about the age group lol.

haha, maybe it’s just all the DVC owners I know

 

[Liquidice]

what I would say to this, is
1 supply and demand.
2. Unless Disney was adding a new benefit every year, you are always getting less value for your dollar. It’s why pricing on everything goes up from year to year, for instance a bag of chips, same bag, higher cost year over year.
3. I would argue that Disney has created value by adding to their parks, Star Wars land, the skyliner, toy story land, new fantasyland, countless restaurants, and hotels… and I feel like I’m just scratching the surface.

Just because you personally feel like value hasn’t been added, doesn’t mean you are correct

1. Agree demand has outstripped supply, but I continue to blame Disney for not creating more supply - in the past they have increased supply to help with overcrowding which evens out demand. Revenue could be even better than today if they expanded the parks to handle more capacity by sheer virtue of handling more guests.

2. Actually, if you adjust for inflation if the perks stay the same - you're not getting less value for your dollar. I'm not saying less value in literal dollars and cents, of course because of inflation that will always occur. I'm saying adjusting for inflation you're actually getting less.

3. This is true, and when I look at perks only it ignores what they've added to the parks - I will say they should have done is added more to those lands like a large theater show to give large crowds a place to go or sit down restaurants, etc (or created a 5th gate with those lands and more) - which would help to solve the overcrowding.

Value is an opinion / perspective though - so not sure how you can be correct / incorrect here? There is a certain point where most would probably agree they are getting less value (Ticket prices increase to $500 per day overnight) or getting more value (ticket prices decrease to $50 per day overnight) - but we're definitely in more of a gray area here.

Again I think I'd be happier if the perks were still all included and the overall pricing just went up. Maybe it is more of a perspective of I don't like feeling like I'm being nickel-and-dimed than anything else

 

[disneydreamer781]

haha, maybe it’s just all the DVC owners I know

Not me. I'm in my 60s and really good with technology.