need to vent, church related issues

[longboard55]

I really think traditional churches need a restart. They should be focused on helping people, not building monuments and attacking gays. My moms church is similar, been with her a few times, average age looks about 80

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think moving to a different church is perhaps the best path, as backwards as it seems towards the practices, if a church is that ingrained in a certain mentality it's probably not going to happen any time soon that it will change if they ever do.

And as time goes on people can find their priorities or their desires to help their community shift. A thing that stood out to me was the quarterly feminine hygiene products drive which is something that has gained more and more attention towards both the costs to these basic items but also just how many menstruating individuals lack consistent assess to these products. Perhaps that offends those in the congregation (my guess is based on the topic being more taboo to openly discuss along with shifts in how we discuss menstruating individuals--I say individuals because not all identify as female) but it's a fantastic way to help the community and is something more younger people are tuned in on. We have a local shelter that does something similar.

In my area Catholic Charities is one of the most referenced places for those in need most especially when it comes to food insecurities and clothing/furniture needs (other things such as immigration and refugee aid among other things). The denomination isn't important was just trying to provide an example of a religious organization that provides community-based needs in a non-religious manner.

Finding a congregation that is at least more open to a wider array of community givebacks would probably be best given your interests. Alternatively you may try to find local opportunities to volunteer that may provide you with the opportunity to find a congregation that better suits your perspective on faith.

 

[DCLMP]

For me it’s a couple of things…
First the business that churches have become. They are spending money and man power on recruitment. How about spending that money feeding the hungry? Let your “recruitment” be your presence in the community doing good work.

Second, I don’t like getting spammed by anyone with mail and email inviting me to attend. I know it’s Easter. I’m aware of Christmas Eve.

It has improved a bit in recent years. While I’ll still occasionally get a flyer on my door, church members don’t seem to go out knocking on doors anymore.

You just have to find the right one they are not all alike. In order for a church to survive they need customers it’s no different than anything else. I prefer them over the solar scammers that knock on my door everyday.

 

[QueenIsabella]

You just have to find the right one they are not all alike. In order for a church to survive they need customers it’s no different than anything else. I prefer them over the solar scammers that knock on my door everyday.

Ha! I had another one this morning, about an hour after I typed in my response complaining about them.

 

[piccolopat]

quick question for those who've mentioned issues with a shortage of volunteers-

any chance it can be at least in part based on cliquish or exclusionary behaviors by existing volunteers/committees? i've seen and experienced this, known of others who have faced the same. the 'old guard' makes it clear if not by words but their actions that there is a pecking order and newer volunteers are at the bottom where they will carry the less desirable duties/have no voice (not 'old guard' by age necessarily-often it is VERY inclusive of younger members who feel some claim to status within the group by virtue of generational membership in a congregation-as in 'born to faith' vs. what seems the lesser regarded convert).

a lack of membership/volunteers can be a result of many factors but when there's a high turnover in newbies that fairly leave-then the congregation has to look inward and question how they are treating people once they have entered the fold (i've heard it likened to being pursued in a romantic relationship and how the attention can wane when 'the thrill of the chase' wears off).

quick question for those who've mentioned issues with a shortage of volunteers-

any chance it can be at least in part based on cliquish or exclusionary behaviors by existing volunteers/committees? i've seen and experienced this, known of others who have faced the same. the 'old guard' makes it clear if not by words but their actions that there is a pecking order and newer volunteers are at the bottom where they will carry the less desirable duties/have no voice (not 'old guard' by age necessarily-often it is VERY inclusive of younger members who feel some claim to status within the group by virtue of generational membership in a congregation-as in 'born to faith' vs. what seems the lesser regarded convert).

a lack of membership/volunteers can be a result of many factors but when there's a high turnover in newbies that fairly leave-then the congregation has to look inward and question how they are treating people once they have entered the fold (i've heard it likened to being pursued in a romantic relationship and how the attention can wane when 'the thrill of the chase' wears off).

That may be an issue some places but not with the music group that I direct. Our members have always been welcoming and helpful to newcomers. Our only requirements are you have to be able to reasonably carry a tune, attend rehearsals (sometimes weekly, other times biweekly) and one Sunday morning mass from after Labor Day until the end of June.

 

[sk!mom]

You just have to find the right one they are not all alike. In order for a church to survive they need customers it’s no different than anything else. I prefer them over the solar scammers that knock on my door everyday.


No longer interested in looking. For me it’s a broken system.

That may be an issue some places but not with the music group that I direct. Our members have always been welcoming and helpful to newcomers. Our only requirements are you have to be able to reasonably carry a tune, attend rehearsals (sometimes weekly, other times biweekly) and one Sunday morning mass from after Labor Day until the end of June.

My DH was involved in music at every church he’s ever attended. It’s one of the few ways for an adult who loves to sing, but went into a business field, to have that outlet

The program had a break due to Covid and when they picked back up he thought it unwise. Finally last August, He started back. They had been asking him to return frequently.

The long Covid break and events of 2020 that religious people were, for us, unbecomingly involved in left a bad taste, and his deconstructing started to catch up with mine. The church we attended is considered liberal and inclusive but they also remain silent.

Ultimately, he decided to leave the church music group in the fall. Practicing weekly was too much, and he simply didn’t want to attend on Sunday. I haven’t been to a service since preCovid.

The church music pastor texted and emailed every few weeks for months telling DH how much he was missed. Every time he or we run into anyone from that church group they tell him that they miss him. As we discussed this one night though, he came to the realization that what he thought were friendships were not. They missed his service not him. He’s taken to responding to these comments with, “No need to miss me, I’m around, let’s meet for lunch or happy hour and catch up.” The looks on their faces. And guess how many get togethers have panned out?

Yeah, they just want a tenor.

 

[DCLMP]

Ha! I had another one this morning, about an hour after I typed in my response complaining about them.

Have you ever had a quote? We could never make the numbers work. It would cost us 60k to get our bill to zero, and the buyback keeps decreasing. People all over my neighborhood were doing it though when interest rates were low and their home prices were going to the moon. Those company's had a good thing going for a few years. I expect many of them will go out of business.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Have you ever had a quote? We could never make the numbers work. It would cost us 60k to get our bill to zero, and the buyback keeps decreasing. People all over my neighborhood were doing it though when interest rates were low and their home prices were going to the moon. Those company's had a good thing going for a few years. I expect many of them will go out of business.

We don't get that far. They're dealing with engineers, here--nuclear engineers, even, which means we know a little bit about power. I shut them down immediately, while my DH likes to toy with them. He eventually gets bored with explaining the industry to them, and gives up.

FTR, the number one issue is, the solar panels don't work when the power's out. We live in hurricane country. What's the point of having an alternate energy source, if it doesn't work when the primary fails?

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

FTR, the number one issue is, the solar panels don't work when the power's out. We live in hurricane country. What's the point of having an alternate energy source, if it doesn't work when the primary fails?

It's not that they don't work, it's the grid they are attached to requires them to be shut down in the event that the power is out. Reason being so they aren't possibly feeding live power into lines while crews are trying to make repairs.

The way around this is to add a backup battery. So, we have solar, and still have power when the grid goes down.

We put in our system in 2017. Break even should be in 3-4 more years. Often we pay only the base grid connection fee each month ($20). Winter it ends up being a bit more. Fully electric house.

I would never go with a door to door salesman to get the best system, knowledge, or value. Not for solar panels, and not for anything else either.

 

[QueenIsabella]

It's not that they don't work, it's the grid they are attached to requires them to be shut down in the event that the power is out. Reason being so they aren't possibly feeding live power into lines while crews are trying to make repairs.

The way around this is to add a backup battery. So, we have solar, and still have power when the grid goes down.

We put in our system in 2017. Break even should be in 3-4 more years. Often we pay only the base grid connection fee each month ($20). Winter it ends up being a bit more. Fully electric house.

I would never go with a door to door salesman to get the best system, knowledge, or value. Not for solar panels, and not for anything else either.

We know why, and we know how to work around it with a battery. But, you still have the issue of "how long will the battery last" during a power outage--during Hurricane Florence (2018), we were out of power for 4 days. Some people in our city were out for much longer.

If you're happy with solar, good for you--I mean that. We went with a whole-house generator instead. I don't see us getting solar panels in our lifetime, unless there are some drastic changes.

I'm curious--did adding solar affect your insurance rates? Trees through roofs is a common side effect of hurricanes. Also, how does roof repair work? I'd rather ask a "real" person, than get the company spiel from a salesperson.

 

[DCLMP]

It's not that they don't work, it's the grid they are attached to requires them to be shut down in the event that the power is out. Reason being so they aren't possibly feeding live power into lines while crews are trying to make repairs.

The way around this is to add a backup battery. So, we have solar, and still have power when the grid goes down.

We put in our system in 2017. Break even should be in 3-4 more years. Often we pay only the base grid connection fee each month ($20). Winter it ends up being a bit more. Fully electric house.

I would never go with a door to door salesman to get the best system, knowledge, or value. Not for solar panels, and not for anything else either.

We've gotten multiple quotes from different companies, but the numbers just never worked out, and with electric company decreasing the buyback rates every year it's like swimming upstream. I'm glad it works for some people.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

We know why, and we know how to work around it with a battery. But, you still have the issue of "how long will the battery last" during a power outage--during Hurricane Florence (2018), we were out of power for 4 days. Some people in our city were out for much longer.

If you're happy with solar, good for you--I mean that. We went with a whole-house generator instead. I don't see us getting solar panels in our lifetime, unless there are some drastic changes.

I'm curious--did adding solar affect your insurance rates? Trees through roofs is a common side effect of hurricanes. Also, how does roof repair work? I'd rather ask a "real" person, than get the company spiel from a salesperson.

Our battery should give us use for at least 24+ hours - not heavy loads though, so I'm not going to be drying clothes during that time. But, none of our food is going to spoil. That's assuming no solar charging during that time. We are in a hurricane prone area as well. Even if power is not restored for several days, the weather usually turns great once the hurricane blows through, so we would then be charging again. Normally our battery will be used overnight to continue using what we produced, down to about 30%. It gets info when a storm is coming and fully charges so we'll have maximum available for use.

Our insurance increased by $50 per year when I called to have the system noted on our policy so that it would be covered.

For roof repair, we haven't had to deal with that because our roof was only a year old when we installed the panels. That's another of the many considerations. We would never have gone ahead with it on an older roof. The new roof was one of the reasons we went ahead when we did. When it does need a repair, whatever nearby panels would need to come off. We would have to make sure our roofer had this ability. Would probably check with our solar installer before proceeding. I can't think it would be too bad because the install went really quickly. Also, the panels themselves are in theory giving the roof a bit of protection from weathering - keeping the shingles out of all that direct intense sun, and protecting from minor impacts.

There are so many factors, I'm sure it's not a good option for everyone. But it's been great for us.

 

[karen4546]

Honestly, I'm coming here to vent because I can be anonymous.

There is a lot going on with the church I attend. We are moving to a new facility in the early fall. Also, our new building will be host to a childcare company which will benefit our church financially.

Our church is aging. Any given Sunday sees the majority of attendees over age 50+. There seems to be excitement about the move and people talk about wanting to "attract" young adults and families. But...when it comes down to wanting to "serve" this age group, every idea that's been thrown out gets squashed by the oldies. I am so frustrated and am starting to feel like this congregation is all talk and little to no action.

There are things that we've done for years, but don't require much in the way of commitment. Like the once a year school supply drive. There are other things that used be done, but they've stopped because of various reasons. The current excuse for not having a vacation Bible School is that the building we are using is no longer ours (sold to a different church who is graciously letting us continue using it on Sunday mornings until we move). I mean, I get that, but considering we are not paying rent, could we secure an offsite location for VBS this year, it's only a week? Apparently not.

Ideas that "won't work", according to the oldies:
quarterly feminine hygiene products drive
fishing derby for kids, could be as little as one Saturday a year!
After school tutoring once weekly (our new place is across the street from the middle school, kids would have to sign up based on the number of volunteers we have)
English lessons (we have immigrants in our city, could pay a teacher to come in for this)
Alcoholics Anonymous
Hosting a group such as scouts, youth choir, or youth theater...we don't have the facilities for sports.

There could be more. But every thing gets shot down...there's always some excuse.

I hate to see this. My eyes are opening to the bigotry in this congregation. There seems to be an "us" and "them" type attitude. Meaning the people of the congregation are a "club" unto themselves and while they say they want share their beliefs with others. I don't see it happening. I see the oldies wanting to control the demographic that they are willing to accept, it is very discouraging.

I hope and pray that there are enough of us that want to make a difference in our community to be able to stand up to these old farts and just do things anyway. And the old farts can become out voted by people how are excited to serve others.

Otherwise. I'll move on. I'm really starting to think along those lines anyway.

There is a lot to plan when doing offsite events that would require Liability Insurance. VBS, Fishing trips, etc. All would require a lot of planning when offsite.

Every adult that helps with any of the children's activities should have a background check including Nexus Lexus, Federal and State.

I think that if you have such bad feelings about "the old farts" then it would you may want to change churches or your attitude and approach.

 

[barkley]

We went with a whole-house generator instead.

love ours! we've gone over a full week on ours during an outage.

back to the regularly schedualed thread topic...............

There is a lot to plan when doing offsite events that would require Liability Insurance.

this brings up a good point-some people are hesitant to volunteer for things b/c of potential liability given the overly litigious nature of many. my state has a law on the books that limits the liability of volunteers but i recall when we lived in another state and my kids were involved in a church related activity. i was hit up to volunteer and in the course of it was given some kind of release to sign. when i saw it had allot of verbiage about insurance and 'exemption from liability' i contacted my insurance agent and learned that unless a church or non profit has the proper and sufficient coverage a volunteer can be risking themselves financially.

 

[sk!mom]

love ours! we've gone over a full week on ours during an outage.

back to the regularly schedualed thread topic...............




this brings up a good point-some people are hesitant to volunteer for things b/c of potential liability given the overly litigious nature of many. my state has a law on the books that limits the liability of volunteers but i recall when we lived in another state and my kids were involved in a church related activity. i was hit up to volunteer and in the course of it was given some kind of release to sign. when i saw it had allot of verbiage about insurance and 'exemption from liability' i contacted my insurance agent and learned that unless a church or non profit has the proper and sufficient coverage a volunteer can be risking themselves financially.

I was never much of a volunteer past my early 30’s due to this and even when I was volunteering, I generally kept it to providing refreshments for something, a meal for someone in need, etc…

I’m astounded that anyone agrees to drive a van full of kids to camp or host youth overnights in their home. So much personal liability that I was unwilling to take on once I had the maturity to realize the risks. Over time I came to realize that it wasn’t true service anyway but more “blessing the blessed” at a Christian based club.

 

[sk!mom]

As I continue to have this thread stuck in my head another reason for church decline has come to mind. The rise of the internet and Information Age.

When I was being raised in church in the 60’s and 70’s, my information was limited mostly to what my parents provided and they had me in church 3x per week at a minimum. We also only socialized with people in our church. I did go to public school but contrary to what some would have you believe, schools don’t indoctrinate, they teach the academic curriculum. I wasn’t allowed to go to dances or movies or coed pool parties so once I was past the running around outside and playing with neighbor kids age, I had very little outside interaction or exposure to different ideas.

I always hated it but I thought something was wrong with me for doubting and questioning. it took college and adulthood to begin to expose me to other schools of thought.

Fast forward to millennial kids and beyond. They have never been without a world of information at their fingertips. Plus education has changed in that we do try to educate critical thinkers.

This wealth of information has made it much easier for people to see fallacies, hypocrisies, scandals, and move away from organized religion.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Our battery should give us use for at least 24+ hours - not heavy loads though, so I'm not going to be drying clothes during that time. But, none of our food is going to spoil. That's assuming no solar charging during that time. We are in a hurricane prone area as well. Even if power is not restored for several days, the weather usually turns great once the hurricane blows through, so we would then be charging again. Normally our battery will be used overnight to continue using what we produced, down to about 30%. It gets info when a storm is coming and fully charges so we'll have maximum available for use.

Our insurance increased by $50 per year when I called to have the system noted on our policy so that it would be covered.

For roof repair, we haven't had to deal with that because our roof was only a year old when we installed the panels. That's another of the many considerations. We would never have gone ahead with it on an older roof. The new roof was one of the reasons we went ahead when we did. When it does need a repair, whatever nearby panels would need to come off. We would have to make sure our roofer had this ability. Would probably check with our solar installer before proceeding. I can't think it would be too bad because the install went really quickly. Also, the panels themselves are in theory giving the roof a bit of protection from weathering - keeping the shingles out of all that direct intense sun, and protecting from minor impacts.

There are so many factors, I'm sure it's not a good option for everyone. But it's been great for us.

Not to go off-topic--AGAIN!--but I appreciate your insights. FWIW, we can't run our dryer on our whole-house generator, either. We could go down a level in generators and save a couple thousand dollars by eliminating the dryer or the oven. I chose the dryer, figuring--as you probably do--that I could use "solar" to dry clothes if necessary (translation: I have a clothesline). And our roof is 10 years old--a consideration, for sure.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[longboard55]

As I continue to have this thread stuck in my head another reason for church decline has come to mind. The rise of the internet and Information Age.

When I was being raised in church in the 60’s and 70’s, my information was limited mostly to what my parents provided and they had me in church 3x per week at a minimum. We also only socialized with people in our church. I did go to public school but contrary to what some would have you believe, schools don’t indoctrinate, they teach the academic curriculum. I wasn’t allowed to go to dances or movies or coed pool parties so once I was past the running around outside and playing with neighbor kids age, I had very little outside interaction or exposure to different ideas.

I always hated it but I thought something was wrong with me for doubting and questioning. it took college and adulthood to begin to expose me to other schools of thought.

Fast forward to millennial kids and beyond. They have never been without a world of information at their fingertips. Plus education has changed in that we do try to educate critical thinkers.

This wealth of information has made it much easier for people to see fallacies, hypocrisies, scandals, and move away from organized religion.

I think people really underestimate the effect of social media and cell phones on what is happening in this world. We would go to the mall or to a movie because it was something to do, now they play on cell phones. I really do not think a lot of young people can make it through an hour service without hitting their phone. And there is a lot more self expression, the group that wants to take us back to the 50s, just aint getting it.

 

[momz]

OP here. I have found an opportunity to volunteer with my employer. Our city hosts Black Expo every year. My employer (a local hospital network) is participating in the health fair. I will volunteer a couple of days in July. There are several services they are providing, I have my eye on the sports physicals booth. I can complete sports physicals on kids who can't afford to pay for a doctor's visit (or who can, but just want to attend the expo, it doesn't matter).

This will feed my need to serve at least a little bit. Will keep my eye on other opportunities.

I'm going to the worship team meeting at church this evening. I don't have high hopes for anything other than what someone said up-thread..."blessing the blessed".

 

[Marrila]

OP here. I have found an opportunity to volunteer with my employer. Our city hosts Black Expo every year. My employer (a local hospital network) is participating in the health fair. I will volunteer a couple of days in July. There are several services they are providing, I have my eye on the sports physicals booth. I can complete sports physicals on kids who can't afford to pay for a doctor's visit (or who can, but just want to attend the expo, it doesn't matter).

This will feed my need to serve at least a little bit. Will keep my eye on other opportunities.

I'm going to the worship team meeting at church this evening. I don't have high hopes for anything other than what someone said up-thread..."blessing the blessed".

It's nice you have found a volunteer opportunity.
It sounds like you are looking for a new direction. It might be time to gradually resign your leadership roles. Maybe consider moving on without a lot of negativity in your wake. New days await.