Borrowed v. Banking Points Return

CaliforniaGirl09

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
One thing I learned a lot about in the points chart fiasco a couple years ago was the amount of "breakage" there is with points that DVCM is able to take advantage of--as I recall it was a ton of points. Wouldn't that be enough to cover the presumably limited number of owners (myself included) who had stays canceled with current year points that were past the banking deadline? Surely that would absorb some of those points and stave off throwing the system out of wack?

Also, going forward DVC owners can help with the imbalance issue by banking current points they are unable to use forward. IOW, I can't get a room that I want next year with my 2020 points so I bank them into 2021. Over time that will help rebalance the system (at least until the last year of ownership). It may hamper people who books with three years worth of points, but the rest of owners can help with the rebalance by booking behavior.

Also I find the imbalance issue somewhat self-serving as DVCM was the one who created the problem with the cabins, bungalows, etc.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
One thing I learned a lot about in the points chart fiasco a couple years ago was the amount of "breakage" there is with points that DVCM is able to take advantage of--as I recall it was a ton of points. Wouldn't that be enough to cover the presumably limited number of owners (myself included) who had stays canceled with current year points that were past the banking deadline? Surely that would absorb some of those points and stave off throwing the system out of wack?

Also, going forward DVC owners can help with the imbalance issue by banking current points they are unable to use forward. IOW, I can't get a room that I want next year with my 2020 points so I bank them into 2021. Over time that will help rebalance the system (at least until the last year of ownership). It may hamper people who books with three years worth of points, but the rest of owners can help with the rebalance by booking behavior.

Also I find the imbalance issue somewhat self-serving as DVCM was the one who created the problem with the cabins, bungalows, etc.
It is very possible that some of that breakage inventory is enough to absorb it. Points do go unused every year, Disney owns points too,

This is why I think it’s going to take time for them to figure it out because as you mention, lots of variables,

I would rather they take their time, make sensible decisions, so that impact is minimal,

Just to clarify, DVCM is the management arm of the timeshaee. They oversee the implementation of the program...including hiring TWDC to be the property manager.

DVD is the arm that is in charge with the building of resorts. So, they were the ones who decided to build cabins and bungalows which did add a lot of points to the program. Unfortunately, not something owners have nay control over and doesn’t relieve us of having to deal with what it does to the booking process.
 

CaliforniaGirl09

DIS Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Just to clarify, DVCM is the management arm of the timeshaee. They oversee the implementation of the program...including hiring TWDC to be the property manager.

DVD is the arm that is in charge with the building of resorts. So, they were the ones who decided to build cabins and bungalows which did add a lot of points to the program. Unfortunately, not something owners have nay control over and doesn’t relieve us of having to deal with what it does to the booking process.
Oops. I knew that but was typing too fast. Thanks for the correction :)
 
  • DVCSunDevil

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 1, 2020
    For the second time, this is not about already banked points. This is about current UY points, and yes; they most certainly did let people bank current UY points early on. Word is that it depended on who you talked to, but apparently a lot of people were able to. I knew about it when it was going on because I keep up on the boards, but trying to be a good DVC citizen, I refrained from calling and contributing to overwhelming MS and here I stand for my trying to do the right thing.

    I haven't seen one single post that I can attribute to anybody complaining about banking already used and cancelled banked points for a second time. Maybe it exist, but I haven't come across one and I read the boards pretty thoroughly, especially on what's going on right now with those of us with APR and JUN UYs. Allowing re-banking of already banked points would account for 4 years of usability in a system designed entirely around points being good for 3 years of use. Those of us complaining are having usage of our points cut off at 2 years.
    No, the comment was "I really don’t see them ever banking banked points due to problems with future bookings and availability". To which you replied "Ummm... They already have. For some." No, they haven't allowed banking of already banked points. I know the situation on current UY points that you are referring to. My comment was in regards to you saying they were allowing banking of already banked points. I am assuming now that you were confused and thought the poster was referring to current UY points.
     

    ChimneyJim

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 27, 2012
    I canceled yesterday via Chat and the CM said within 30 days for Borrowed Points to be returned. Just checked and they are back in 2021 in 24 hours.
     

    WilsonFlyer

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 24, 2008
    No, the comment was "I really don’t see them ever banking banked points due to problems with future bookings and availability". To which you replied "Ummm... They already have. For some." No, they haven't allowed banking of already banked points. I know the situation on current UY points that you are referring to. My comment was in regards to you saying they were allowing banking of already banked points. I am assuming now that you were confused and thought the poster was referring to current UY points.
    And that was a mistake in the way I read that original response.

    My point was that current UY points that had to be cancelled that were due to expire outside their normal banking window were allowed to be banked by some members by some in MS early on in all this fiasco, which is what this original thread was about. I missed the whole bank/banked thing because that wasn't even what this thread was originally about, and I'm not even sure how it got in here.
     

    DVCSunDevil

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 1, 2020
    And that was a mistake in the way I read that original response.

    My point was that current UY points that had to be cancelled that were due to expire outside their normal banking window were allowed to be banked by some members by some in MS early on in all this fiasco, which is what this original thread was about. I missed the whole bank/banked thing because that wasn't even what this thread was originally about, and I'm not even sure how it got in here.
    Got it. At the end of the day, I think everyone in your situation needs to be patient. I think DVC is still going to do something for people with those April and June UYs. They just need some time to figure this out.
     

    CarolynFH

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 5, 2000
    Got it. At the end of the day, I think everyone in your situation needs to be patient. I think DVC is still going to do something for people with those April and June UYs. They just need some time to figure this out.
    Hopefully, people with August UY whose banking deadline was March 31 and had reservations using 2019 points in March, April or May saw the writing on the wall and cancelled their reservations so they could bank their points. I guess the September UY folks can wait it out until later this month, but those with August UY shouldn't complain since they could see the problem coming in time to do something about it. I don't think I'd want to play chicken with DVC over points.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Hopefully, people with August UY whose banking deadline was March 31 and had reservations using 2019 points in March, April or May saw the writing on the wall and cancelled their reservations so they could bank their points. I guess the September UY folks can wait it out until later this month, but those with August UY shouldn't complain since they could see the problem coming in time to do something about it. I don't think I'd want to play chicken with DVC over points.
    I agree and honestly, the more that did, the better chance I believe those that didn’t have the chance could see something done.

    Now with the governors 30 day stay at home order, no way things will happen before June 1st
     

    Minniesgal

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 29, 2013
    Got it. At the end of the day, I think everyone in your situation needs to be patient. I think DVC is still going to do something for people with those April and June UYs. They just need some time to figure this out.
    April June and August UY are now in the same position.
     

    momtwoboys

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 9, 2007
    at least Aug UY had the chance! June/ April had no choice . I am still wondering how long it will take DVC to make a decision on how we will be helped. I can't see them just ignoring our loss. Yes I want everyone to be healthy, yes I hope the world comes out of this ok, but we worked hard for our DVC contract and losing points and losing money isnt taken lightly. Hoping something is communicated with us soon.
     

    WilsonFlyer

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 24, 2008
    at least Aug UY had the chance! June/ April had no choice . I am still wondering how long it will take DVC to make a decision on how we will be helped. I can't see them just ignoring our loss. Yes I want everyone to be healthy, yes I hope the world comes out of this ok, but we worked hard for our DVC contract and losing points and losing money isnt taken lightly. Hoping something is communicated with us soon.
    This.
     

    Novakm

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 9, 2013
    Can someone help me rationalize how DVC can allow everyone in every UY to return borrowed points for cancelled trips and not allow those of us that (through no fault of our own) have UYs outside our banking windows (April and June come to mind) to bank our points for cancelled trips?

    They can’t.

    POS says they must honor reservations. They did not, so there must be compensation. They just need to figure out how.

    Regardless of what they do, the points are out of balance, and they will need to find a way to make the system work. Just expiring April/June points isn’t nearly enough to bring the system back into balance.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    at least Aug UY had the chance! June/ April had no choice . I am still wondering how long it will take DVC to make a decision on how we will be helped. I can't see them just ignoring our loss. Yes I want everyone to be healthy, yes I hope the world comes out of this ok, but we worked hard for our DVC contract and losing points and losing money isnt taken lightly. Hoping something is communicated with us soon.
    With the new stay in place order for 30 days, they know they can not open until May 1st, at the earliest,

    Since they will be dealing with half of the UYs beyond banking windows for sure, I would think that will help in getting a decision out,

    They said they had to have more info and this, IMO, gives them a lot,
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    They can’t.

    POS says they must honor reservations. They did not, so there must be compensation. They just need to figure out how.

    Regardless of what they do, the points are out of balance, and they will need to find a way to make the system work. Just expiring April/June points isn’t nearly enough to bring the system back into balance.
    The POS also gives them emergency powers to close the resort and that means it was a legal move.

    The Home Resort rules and regulations allow them to adjust as needed to make the system work. They actually can return borrowed points and not allow late banking. We may not like it or think it is fair, but it is allowed, as long as it supports the goal of making the system work.

    Here is the language:

    1. Amendments. DVC Operator reserves the right to amend these Rules and Regulations, in its discretion. These changes may affect a Club Member’s right to use, exchange, or rent the Club Member’s Ownership Interest and may impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of the Club Member’s Ownership Interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Club Members will be notified of any such changes through Member Services publications, including posting on a Club website. Current publications supersede prior publications with respect to the terms and conditions of these Rules and Regulations
     
    Last edited:

    nagshead

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 12, 2013
    I’m from the UK bought direct last May and were due to to travel towards end of May using our 2019 June UY points as well as 20 OTU points.

    It’s our first welcome home visit and I completely understand that there are much bigger issues going on. In the UK companies have been fantastic at providing other options so consumers aren’t losing out. I would be extremely disappointed if my OTU points weren’t refunded or banked and a reasonable alternative option provided for our 2019 points.

    I was on hold for 75 minutes yesterday and it looked like they were going to bank them for us. After they tried to bank them I was told to send an email so there was something in writing as they were now considering what to do.

    Fingers crossed there’s a reasonable alternative for all impacted.
    did you get your points banked?
     

    carli_h

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 28, 2018
    did you get your points banked?
    I have now heard back. They’re not banking or making any decisions until they know the scope of the impact.

    The email response strongly recommended that I transfer the points to RCI. This is obviously not our preference as we have purchased park tickets that have been extended until next September and did not want to borrow points for our vacation.
     

    nagshead

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 12, 2013
    I have now heard back. They’re not banking or making any decisions until they know the scope of the impact.

    The email response strongly recommended that I transfer the points to RCI. This is obviously not our preference as we have purchased park tickets that have been extended until next September and did not want to borrow points for our vacation.
    Thank you for updating. We will wait it out to see what will happen with our 200 aug use year points if they cancel our May trip.
     

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