Can we talk WDW price inflation???

[jpeterson]

Right now I’m operating on the fumes of fond memories, trying my best to remain positive and to believe “this too will pass.” I may be alone in that, but I don’t think I am. If my sentiments are shared by a lot of people, and if Disney doesn’t change course, they may be setting themselves up in a bad way long term. I suppose time will tell.

Very much this. I'm telling myself similar right now. I'm hoping this is just a blip and things will rebound and that "magic" will return. I don't for a second think that prices will go down, but I won't mind as much if/when level of service returns. It's less about the dollar amount as it is about what I'm getting for that dollar. Right now the ratio is not great. I'm hopeful it won't always be that way.

 

[Jrb1979]

Very much this. I'm telling myself similar right now. I'm hoping this is just a blip and things will rebound and that "magic" will return. I don't for a second think that prices will go down, but I won't mind as much if/when level of service returns. It's less about the dollar amount as it is about what I'm getting for that dollar. Right now the ratio is not great. I'm hopeful it won't always be that way.

I agree with everything you said. IMO the problem is they are so focused on Hollywood and Disney+ that the parks are in the background right now. Before Covid, my wife wanted to take my 2 year old to Disney but now with all the cuts we have decided to check out other parks that are out there.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

But we really do need to get amenities back and for some to just get better overall. The loss of DME really bothered me. Park hopping still being after 2PM is pretty awful too. I am not a fan of Genie+ and the loss of FP+. The park reservation system is starting to irk slightly too, I understood it's initial need, but we are long past that.

I agree 100%. I understand some price increases, but it's all the other stuff that is impacting our enjoyment--the loss of FP+, the nonexistent housekeeping, the limited menus, etc. I hate the park reservation and hopping changes and really hope they get rid of those. I find they really impact my trip especially with the limited ADRs and trying to find dining.

the food quality has gotten worse and worse, year after year.

Preach! We went to both WDW and DL in January and the food was very disappointing. DL has never had great food, but it was pretty horrible last weekend. The best meal we had at WDW was at Morimoto but even that wasn't as good as before and my husband's favorite dish was missing.

Another thing I'm noticing while here. Basic Merchandise has skyrocketed to Gucci price levels with the same sweatshop quality. I was here a few months back and it has gone down hill FAST.

Thank you so much for mentioning this ... yes! I've noticed this, too. I also hate how it's basically the same merchandise wherever you go--DL or WDW. I miss the unique items they used to sell only in certain shops, etc. Now it's pick your spirit jersey (which I personally hate) and Dooney bag. DL used to have a great store in Downtown Disney called the vault that would have licensed Disney stuff by other brands (juicy, junk food, etc. ). Now you can go into any store and find basically the same stuff of not so great quality.

I think many people are getting disillusioned with Disney’s current management of WDW. I know I am. As frequent attendee for over 30 years, I feel that today I’m being taken advantage of. Prices are up and services are down. And there seems to be a steady stream of bad news for guests.

We are in the same boat. We've been APs at DL for almost 25 years and APs at WDW for most of the past 5 years. We own DVC on both coasts, so 2-3 trips per year at each resort. There are always changes that I haven't liked, but the past 6 months/year have seen so many unwelcome changes that it has really impacted our enjoyment and clearly we aren't alone.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I have seen no one here saying “the parks are empty,” “no one is going or bringing their kids, “the business is hovering on the verge of collapse,” or that there is “no demand.” So I think you are misrepresenting what several people here are saying.

Let me help with that then...

"I love seeing the top dog get beaten."

"I can't help but think that in pricing themselves out of the range of average families today, if WDC isn't cannibalizing a lot of future earnings in the name of today's profits."

"I think you're missing my point.

When little Johnny or Susie is introduced to Disney parks as a young tyke through repeated visits, my premise is that he or she can be imprinted with overwhelmingly positive feelings that extend into adulthood and adult buying decisions.
......
discouraging some/many families with young children from coming as often or coming at all, and that may translate down the road into a smaller population valuing "Disney Magic."
"

These are exactly talking about people not bringing their kids to Disney anymore and thus bringing about the end of the company long-term.

Those are just some of the comments. And yes, a lot of posts here are about "I'm done" and "my family is done" and "Disney will fail with these policies" and so forth.

I don’t know that anyone knows for sure, but the most common figures I have seen for the percentage of park guests who stay on property is 33-35%. If that’s the case (but I’m not sure it is), do you really think it makes sense to infer that “Disney has all the crowd they want and maybe a little more than they want” based on a few anecdotal examples of unavailable rooms in resorts operating at capacities no one here knows?

Disney hotels are where the people who are willing to pay higher prices go. If those hotels are filled and one of the biggest complaints are about how high Disney prices are and how people will still go, but not stay on property and the loss of benefit to on property, then yes. I believe that the amount of availability of property resorts IS reflective of the overall demand. That makes complete logical sense.

In addition, as mentioned it's not just resorts. ADR's are filled. Genie+ is filled. AP's were oversold. Experiences are all sold out. They simply have no capacity available in any of their services.

Extrapolating to the absurd, what if the resorts were operating at 5% capacity?

I do not understand this point. Like you said, that's not reflective of reality. I could make up thousands of take scenarios that have no basis in reality. What does that tell us?

I think many people are getting disillusioned with Disney’s current management of WDW. I know I am. As frequent attendee for over 30 years, I feel that today I’m being taken advantage of. Prices are up and services are down. And there seems to be a steady stream of bad news for guests.

Right now I’m operating on the fumes of fond memories, trying my best to remain positive and to believe “this too will pass.” I may be alone in that, but I don’t think I am. If my sentiments are shared by a lot of people, and if Disney doesn’t change course, they may be setting themselves up in a bad way long term. I suppose time will tell.

I hear you, and again I do not think you are alone. But I do wonder how much of this is expected and even anticipated by Disney Management. One thing I will say about Disney - they didn't get to where they are by being stupid. They usually know far more about their base's sentiment than they let on. Which again leads me to believe that some of this may be on purpose.

 

[k5xs]

The quotes you provided show no one posting any of those things you said had been said (“the parks are empty,” “no one is going or bringing their kids, “the business is hovering on the verge of collapse,” or that there is “no demand”). Can you show any of those comments? (Maybe I missed them.) Or maybe you are given to hyperbole.

What the absurd 5% comment "tells us" is that hypothetically, resorts could be limited to 5% capacity and you would get the "sold out" results you posted above with very few guests in those resorts. Obviously current capacity is not 5%. But is it 25%? 35%? 45%? 55%? If so, you are arguing a fallacy to offer that resorts are sold out as evidence the parks are full.

You may be right, some of this may be deliberate. Like many, I suspect, I've not enjoyed crowded parks, so if recent changes tamp down demand that would relieve crowds. But to my original point in this discussion, I think WDC is putting at risk more than current revenue. I think there may be possible long-term negative consequences that transcend parks revenue.

Who knows. I surely don't. But it's leaving a bitter taste in my mouth after decades of nothing but warm feelings about Disney.

 

[nashvilleash]

We've been going for years and have never seen hotel rooms this hard to get, its been like that since they opened back up in 2020. I could be wrong, but in our trip in June, it sure didnt feel like the parks were at pre-pandemic levels. i dont believe hotels are all opened up.

Could the shortage of rooms be related to more conferences and wedding room blocks?

 

[mom2rtk]

Could the shortage of rooms be related to more conferences and wedding room blocks?

It's almost certainly about staffing shortages and resorts not fully open.

 

[Miffy]

It's almost certainly about staffing shortages and resorts not fully open.

^^^^This.^^^^
Having just been at AKL in December, I can tell you that they are extremely short-staffed. They do not have enough staff to service the rooms that are available to book, and the staff they do have is very new and often clueless. I do not blame them, btw, they are doing their best.

We had a meal at MM in December. We always go there. Always. For years. We had a server who'd been on the job for 2 days. I'm guessing the kitchen staff had been there maybe 1 day.

I guess this because we ordered a side salad--Just give us a tossed salad without meat or cheese and some vinaigrette--and got . . . wait for it . . . about 5 pieces of lettuce, 3 cherry tomatoes, and 2 large chunks of cucumber in a teacup-sized dish with a teensy tiny container of just plain balsamic vinegar on the side. We didn't even complain or ask for something better because it was obvious to us that the staff there was new, overwhelmed, and undertrained.

That being said, will we be back to MM in the future? No way. Maybe 5 years from now. Maybe. This was such a contrast to what it's usually like there that it left a huge impression.

And to the poster who said that repeat visits cause dissatisfaction and complaints (or words to that effect), I'd have to say that all my previous, many, repeat visits to WDW were the source of joy, fun, and great reviews. Not complaints. If I had complaints, I wouldn't've gone back so many times. Or at all.

Edited for additional sentence.

 

[fumanchu2488]

But to my original point in this discussion, I think WDC is putting at risk more than current revenue. I think there may be possible long-term negative consequences that transcend parks revenue.

Who knows. I surely don't. But it's leaving a bitter taste in my mouth after decades of nothing but warm feelings about Disney.

I agree with some of your point but this one I strongly disagree with. I think the generational increase in demand allows Disney to exponentially increase their prices. It’s an interesting economic case study in brand loyalty and overall marketing. 50 years ago vs 30 years ago vs today.

I have a young family. My parents (2) brought me and my siblings (3) in the early 90s. Now we have had generational trips with grandkids (9) that are growing. So in just our family they have converted 2 people to 10 people. And we are loyal fans. Our cousins family is similar but with 15 now.

This is allowing Disney to target higher affluent groups and increase prices way faster than inflation. I think the increases over the past 2/3 years probably aren’t enough.

Where I think it can go off the rails is if the offerings or services decrease. If you are luring people to pay close to $1000/night for a hotel and maybe $8k-$10k for a weeklong family vacation for 4, but the experience is lacking you could easily lose those 10 people you got over 30 years ago. I do have some specific gripes.

For example, why not just charge an extra $5 or $10 per night and keep DME? Why not just increase the ticket prices for day and AP by 25% and include Genie+? They are trying to play both sides of the fence and it seems like it is too expensive for some and for others it seems like they are nickel and diming everyone.

 

[Miffy]

I agree with some of your point but this one I strongly disagree with. I think the generational increase in demand allows Disney to exponentially increase their prices. It’s an interesting economic case study in brand loyalty and overall marketing. 50 years ago vs 30 years ago vs today.

I have a young family. My parents (2) brought me and my siblings (3) in the early 90s. Now we have had generational trips with grandkids (9) that are growing. So in just our family they have converted 2 people to 10 people. And we are loyal fans. Our cousins family is similar but with 15 now.

This is allowing Disney to target higher affluent groups and increase prices way faster than inflation. I think the increases over the past 2/3 years probably aren’t enough.

Where I think it can go off the rails is if the offerings or services decrease. If you are luring people to pay close to $1000/night for a hotel and maybe $8k-$10k for a weeklong family vacation for 4, but the experience is lacking you could easily lose those 10 people you got over 30 years ago. I do have some specific gripes.

For example, why not just charge an extra $5 or $10 per night and keep DME? Why not just increase the ticket prices for day and AP by 25% and include Genie+? They are trying to play both sides of the fence and it seems like it is too expensive for some and for others it seems like they are nickel and diming everyone.

I agree with much of your post, but your thinking that "increases over the past 2/3 years probably aren't enough"? I can't agree with that. I'm guessing you have a significantly higher income that I do or you wouldn't be saying this unless, of course, you actually want to be priced out of a WDW vacation in order to make way for people with greater financial resources so they can have a vacation that the rest of us would then only be able to dream about. Sort of like Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous Walt Disney World Guests. We'd get to watch them on a bad reality show (as if there are other kinds of reality shows), swoon over the wonderful time they're having, and dream of the day when we all had tens of thousands of dollars to spend on a one-week vacation.

Could Disney survive with only high-income visitors staying at their onsite resorts? Perhaps they can. I can't judge this since I have no data to work with. But it seems to me that the more WDW cuts off a somewhat affordable experience for, say, middle-class (not upper-middle-class) people, the fewer guests, in general, it will have staying at their resorts. Perhaps this is some kind of ideal for WDW--to have its resorts 3/4 occupied by people willing to pay $1,000+/night just for their room. A room that gets housekeeping service only every once in a while. If they can do less and less and charge more and more and still make money, then maybe they'll do that.

But I wouldn't judge anything by current park attendance and resort occupancy, because WDW right now, I believe, is riding on a wave of guests who had to cancel and postpone intended trips. This is the only reason we were able to afford our stay in December--it was nearly double the cost of our stay in 2019, but we'd saved up because there were 3 trips we didn't take. Going forward, it won't be like that for us.

 

[fumanchu2488]

I agree with much of your post, but your thinking that "increases over the past 2/3 years probably aren't enough"? I can't agree with that. I'm guessing you have a significantly higher income that I do or you wouldn't be saying this unless, of course, you actually want to be priced out of a WDW vacation in order to make way for people with greater financial resources so they can have a vacation that the rest of us would then only be able to dream about. Sort of like Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous Walt Disney World Guests. We'd get to watch them on a bad reality show (as if there are other kinds of reality shows), swoon over the wonderful time they're having, and dream of the day when we all had tens of thousands of dollars to spend on a one-week vacation.

Could Disney survive with only high-income visitors staying at their onsite resorts? Perhaps they can. I can't judge this since I have no data to work with. But it seems to me that the more WDW cuts off a somewhat affordable experience for, say, middle-class (not upper-middle-class) people, the fewer guests, in general, it will have staying at their resorts. Perhaps this is some kind of ideal for WDW--to have its resorts 3/4 occupied by people willing to pay $1,000+/night just for their room. A room that gets housekeeping service only every once in a while. If they can do less and less and charge more and more and still make money, then maybe they'll do that.

But I wouldn't judge anything by current park attendance and resort occupancy, because WDW right now, I believe, is riding on a wave of guests who had to cancel and postpone intended trips. This is the only reason we were able to afford our stay in December--it was nearly double the cost of our stay in 2019, but we'd saved up because there were 3 trips we didn't take. Going forward, it won't be like that for us.

I guess what I’m saying for it not being expensive enough is the park crowds. To your point maybe that settles after the backlog but I think there is a huge backlog in international guests that probably hold them over another year or two at least.

As far as pricing people out, I think the change comes in vacation habits. People that spend say $3000 for their Disney vacation and get 6 nights now, maybe they get 4 nights for the same price but a better experience. Some will not come but I think they can make up for it.

 

[jade1]

I agree so focused on Hollywood and Disney+ that the parks are in the background right now.

Agreed. Although after the last Star Wars trilogy having a few things I wasn't a fan of, having the right people doing Mando and Fett, has been very good entertainment the other 51 weeks a year many folks are not at WDW. Wed alone was amazing.

Maybe it will turn back to improving WDW soon I hope.