Cases rising or dropping by you?

[RamblingMad]

But it's not rooted in science. It's rooted in fear and control. You mean to tell me that if the gathering lasts two hours and one minute everyone suddenly gets Covid? Or if someone sings louder than speaking voice?

Christmas won't be there for many people next year. Tomorrow is not guaranteed.

I’m pretty sure it’s about 15 minutes to get COVID. And I’m pretty sure singing will project COVID farther.

A lot of people are going to get it over the holidays.

 

[sparks&whimsy]

Cases are dropping here in Hawaii, however my son has been running a fever for several days and our pediatrician had us get him covid tested yesterday and we are still waiting on the results. I am a bucket of nerves currently.

 

[Pyotr]

I just wanted to add his article.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...s-elderly-people-are-dying-isolation-n1244853

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

But it's not rooted in science. It's rooted in fear and control. You mean to tell me that if the gathering lasts two hours and one minute everyone suddenly gets Covid? Or if someone sings louder than speaking voice?

Science...
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6919e6.htm

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

I just wanted to add his article.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...s-elderly-people-are-dying-isolation-n1244853

But you do realize that the 98 year old man in the article died mere weeks after a positive coronavirus diagnosis...

 

[Pyotr]

Science...
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6919e6.htm

Where in that study does it quantify what a safe decibel level is?

 

[Pyotr]

But you do realize that the 98 year old man in the article died mere weeks after a positive coronavirus diagnosis...

So an extremely vulnerable person died of a virus. Okay. Point made.

 

[Colleen27]

I fail to see the big uproar. So we shouldn’t have a big holiday meal one year out of many. Who cares? Not the greatest sacrifice one could undergo.

You couldn’t pay me to gather around a Christmas table indoors with anyone other than the four people I live with right now. Not worth the risk, however small. Christmas will be there next year.

This ultimately comes down to personal philosophies and life experiences. We have lost too many people in recent years for me to make the assumption that Christmas will be there next year. The holiday will, of course, but those we celebrate it with may not. And at that point, the question shifts to which risk - the virus or the passing of time - is greater. And the answer to that is going to be different based on a million different things that are specific to individual families and celebrations.

 

[RamblingMad]

Another one of my Chicago friends got COVID. This one isn't in the hospital. That's two in Chicago in the past month.

 

[JimMIA]

And I’m pretty sure singing will project COVID farther.

YMMV, but my singing is actually a pandemic-preventer. It drives people into the next county, if not state, and promotes social distancing like you wouldn't believe!

 

[monsterkitty]

Where in that study does it quantify what a safe decibel level is?

I'm an instrumental music teacher who has researched the viral particle spread so that our kids in my school could sing or play instruments safely.

The spread has no bearing on what decibel is safe to sing at. However, the louder you sing or play a wind instrument results in more force and air speed that spreads the virus. Several universities have concluded that it is only safe to sing or play an instrument if you are 6-12 feet away, wearing masks, the air exchange in the room is at a certain rate (that is a huge finding in the cause of spread), not playing or singing for more than 15 minutes in 60 minutes time for that safe air exchange no matter how great the ventilation system is, and various other scenarios. Our district is not allowing vocal classes or band classes in certain building because of the out dated ventilation systems that will not allow for that safe air exchange rate.

So to answer your question about safe decibel levels, it's not a level, it's the amount of air being forced out of the mouth and nose while singing or playing a wind instrument that forces and spreads the particles around the room. Colorado State University, Colorado University, and the University of Maryland collaborated in one study and many other studies came to the same conclusion. I linked many of the results in a different thread if you want to read the study.

 

[monsterkitty]

So an extremely vulnerable person died of a virus. Okay. Point made.

I'm sorry, but flippant attitudes such as this are one of the reasons people are dying. Look up the wedding in Maine on August 7th that only had 65 people attend the ceremony. By September 16th, 175 people had contracted the virus because of that event. 7 people died. 6 of those 7 people did not even attend the wedding. Yes, they were residents of a rehab center, but we have no idea why they were at the rehab center. It was brought into the center by an employee who lives with someone who attended the wedding.

Finally, what does it not matter if someone who extremely vulnerable dies of the virus? Their lives have just as much value as the younger people are also dying. The sarcasm is rude and offensive and hurtful to every person who has lost someone to the virus, regardless of age or prior health.

 

[dreamer17555]

Is everyone focused on throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Isn't there a way to more safely celebrate the holidays with those at risk of not being there the next year? Wear masks, quarantine two weeks before the event, maybe skip the meal or eat outside if possible in your climate, shorten the guest list, skip the singing.

There are ways to keep the connection and stay safe. It won't be what many want, it won't be what we have had in years past but moments with those we love? They are still precious even without a turkey, without the carols, with a mask. I feel like I am trying to share what we all learned from The Grinch- "Maybe Christmas, perhaps, is a little bit more." Maybe its time connecting and talking (masks on), maybe it is caring and limiting our own lives before we venture to visit others, maybe it is about doing all we can to make sure as many people as possible are here next year to celebrate with their families. There are 225,000 people that will be missing at the holidays this year. Let's all do our part to not add more.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Where in that study does it quantify what a safe decibel level is?

The force of expulsion makes the droplets smaller and the smaller they are the easier they carry in the air before settling and the easier to move through your airways without getting trapped as you breathe the air into your body.

Think of it like a garden hose. If you just turn it on the water just pours out with very few splashes so that you can stand a few feet away and stay dry. Now consider adding a spray nozzle, the less you let out the more fine the spray becomes and the further it carries. Add a smidge of wind and you can get splashed across the yard.

As we sing we force expelled air through varying sizes of nozzle.

In today's hostile environment I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a study but you can see it for yourself in your own study in your own yard.

 

[RamblingMad]

Is everyone focused on throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Isn't there a way to more safely celebrate the holidays with those at risk of not being there the next year? Wear masks, quarantine two weeks before the event, maybe skip the meal or eat outside if possible in your climate, shorten the guest list, skip the singing.

There are ways to keep the connection and stay safe. It won't be what many want, it won't be what we have had in years past but moments with those we love? They are still precious even without a turkey, without the carols, with a mask. I feel like I am trying to share what we all learned from The Grinch- "Maybe Christmas, perhaps, is a little bit more." Maybe its time connecting and talking (masks on), maybe it is caring and limiting our own lives before we venture to visit others, maybe it is about doing all we can to make sure as many people as possible are here next year to celebrate with their families. There are 225,000 people that will be missing at the holidays this year. Let's all do our part to not add more.

We can use the cone of silence.

 

[Frwinkley]

I have very few words left regarding this subject. Had we all thought of others from the beginning instead of acting so inconvenienced by a simple piece of clothing, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

Just like seat belts and airbags do not prevent every automobile fatality, masks are not meant to prevent 100% of cases; they are meant to limit the spread. It is so simple that it boggles my mind. We are a selfish lot and it infuriates me that as the most developed and powerful country in the world, the USA is a laughing stock.

 

[dreamer17555]

We can use the cone of silence.

So much for trying to be sincere, I guess I shouldn't have tried. I still think there is a way to celebrate with those at risk of not making it another year and limit covid risk. I guess for some it is too much to ask that people alter their traditions to keep people alive.

 

[amylevan]

I have very few words left regarding this subject. Had we all thought of others from the beginning instead of acting so inconvenienced by a simple piece of clothing, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

Just like seat belts and airbags do not prevent every automobile fatality, masks are not meant to prevent 100% of cases; they are meant to limit the spread. It is so simple that it boggles my mind. We are a selfish lot and it infuriates me that as the most developed and powerful country in the world, the USA is a laughing stock.

We wouldn’t be in this predicament? So Germany and France are home free?

I’m not saying I’m against masks. I wear mine as required by my state. I’m just pointing out that this virus isn’t going anywhere. We can slow it down, yes, but just a few months ago Germany was being heralded for its masterful handling of the virus. What went wrong there? Perhaps this thing is going to run it’s course everywhere, regardless of restrictions.

 

[dreamer17555]

We wouldn’t be in this predicament? So Germany and France are home free?

I’m not saying I’m against masks. I wear mine as required by my state. I’m just pointing out that this virus isn’t going anywhere. We can slow it down, yes, but just a few months ago Germany was being heralded for its masterful handling of the virus. What went wrong there? Perhaps this thing is going to run it’s course everywhere, regardless of restrictions.

Pandemic fatigue is real. Everywhere. And let's state for once that YES eating in a restaurant is a way that covid spreads. Dresden did not have the compliance as elsewhere in Germany. It spread and quickly.

This is like the airbag thing again. It is one part of what keeps you safe but breaks, seatbelts, etc (ie social distancing, hand washing, etc) are needed as well. Throwing our hands up and saying we can't do anything to limit the spread is a lie. We can't stop it but we can limit it.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

So an extremely vulnerable person died of a virus. Okay. Point made.

I guess I misunderstood the reason you posted that particular article then, because it SEEMED to be to argue against elder isolation. He didn't die from isolation, no matter what spin the article author or you are attempting to put on his death. Had I known it was just for you to make a point that you apparently don't care how old people die, as long as they just hurry up and die so you can move on with your life in a normal fashion, I would have just ignored and not engaged. I know better now.