Cruise and Theme Park Operational Updates due to Coronavirus

[Pizzaman12]

Ride times are actually shorter without fastpass (this isn't just me guessing, others who are far more data oriented than I both here on the DIS and at some of the more reputable Disney blogs have crunched those numbers). FP is what creates the logjams/long wait times in the standby line.

And with reduced capacity, there's no need to offer FP. Will they bring it back when they increase capacity? Who knows....but I could see them going more the way of Universal and offering a paid option only, or modeling it more after Disneyland MaxPass/fastpass system.

The lines are shorter until they're not. This image is from today. Plenty more examples.

 

[runjulesrun]

The lines are shorter until they're not. This image is from today. Plenty more examples.

I think the point they were trying to make is that if you add Fastpasses into a line that long, it will end up being even longer because the line will continually have to be stopped to allow Fastpasses in. How does that make things better? At least with no Fastpasses, the lines move (unless you hit a cleaning cycle). And for that matter, what would you do while you were waiting for your Fastpass times? Get in another line (making that line longer)? Without shows and character meet & greets and parades and more dining options, there is simply nothing else to absorb people.

 

[rteetz]

I think the point they were trying to make is that if you add Fastpasses into a line that long, it will end up being even longer because the line will continually have to be stopped to allow Fastpasses in. How does that make things better? At least with no Fastpasses, the lines move (unless you hit a cleaning cycle). And for that matter, what would you do while you were waiting for your Fastpass times? Get in another line (making that line longer)? Without shows and character meet & greets and parades and more dining options, there is simply nothing else to absorb people.

And the rides aren’t operating at their intended capacity. With skipping rows and seats some of the attractions capacities are significantly less per hour. Then add in cleaning cycles like you said.

 

[Pizzaman12]

I think the point they were trying to make is that if you add Fastpasses into a line that long, it will end up being even longer because the line will continually have to be stopped to allow Fastpasses in. How does that make things better? At least with no Fastpasses, the lines move (unless you hit a cleaning cycle). And for that matter, what would you do while you were waiting for your Fastpass times? Get in another line (making that line longer)? Without shows and character meet & greets and parades and more dining options, there is simply nothing else to absorb people.

The problem is that the lines, in many cases, slow down movement around the parks. This is certainly the case in MK, less so in the newer parts of Toy Story Land where there is space for expanded queues to stretch.

I agree they need more dining options to absorb some folks. However, without some level of consistency on wait times, there's space in the FP queues that isn't getting used. That space mostly goes unused now (with the exception of DAS). It's not a ton of space, but it is space nonetheless.

EPCOT works best right now because of the myriad dining and shopping options, IMO. The same should hold true at MK if they do add some more of those elements back in.

 

[Eric Smith]

The lines are shorter until they're not. This image is from today. Plenty more examples.

That happened pre-COVID as well. I was also told by someone who was there this past week that the waits were 60%-80% of the posted wait.

 

[Pizzaman12]

That happened pre-COVID as well. I was also told by someone who was there this past week that the waits were 60%-80% of the posted wait.

Roughly 75% of the waits are as you describe. But 25% are longer than advertised, making it hard to consistently rely on a shorter wait.

 

[rteetz]

there's space in the FP queues that isn't getting used. That space mostly goes unused now (with the exception of DAS). It's not a ton of space, but it is space nonetheless.

VIP Tours/Club 33 and they do have recovery FP when issued in use for that as well.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Fast Pass and Dining Plans are what books more rooms, people don't want to spend big bucks to stand in lines.
This was the whole point of FP+ ....so that guests would be able to do some of the best rides and still have time to eat ..$$$$ for WDW and happy to spend a lot of money guests

Wasn’t the point of FP+ actually to encourage buy in from guests for what was the newest thing at the time (mymagic+), which gave Disney more detailed information than ever about guests and our patterns, as well as the ability to staff more effeciently? And also to lock guests into their plans and ticket purchases months before they made it to Orlando, to ensure they captured as much of their vacation time (their money) as possible? I could have sworn I read somewhere that FP (the original one) didn’t actually increase spending like they thought it would, I could also be completely imagining that lol.

The original FP was intended to get guests spending more money in the parks and less time in line, but thats not really feasible in the current WDW. Not to mention all the issues with actual attraction capacity and the mess FP would make. Whoever listed all the things Disney could do that would help wait times right now is right, longer hours, entertainment pulling people away from rides, etc.

Worse than the current state of lines would be those same very long looking, often outside queues at a completely standstill while a FP line takes overwhelming priority.

 

[Pizzaman12]

VIP Tours/Club 33 and they do have recovery FP when issued in use for that as well.

VIP tour capacity has been cut by approximately 90%. 33 and recovery just don't add much capacity. Most FP queues are empty the past two weeks.

 

[Pizzaman12]

Wasn’t the point of FP+ actually to encourage buy in from guests for what was the newest thing at the time (mymagic+), which gave Disney more detailed information than ever about guests and our patterns, as well as the ability to staff more effeciently? And also to lock guests into their plans and ticket purchases months before they made it to Orlando, to ensure they captured as much of their vacation time (their money) as possible? I could have sworn I read somewhere that FP (the original one) didn’t actually increase spending like they thought it would, I could also be completely imagining that lol.

The original FP was intended to get guests spending more money in the parks and less time in line, but thats not really feasible in the current WDW. Not to mention all the issues with actual attraction capacity and the mess FP would make. Whoever listed all the things Disney could do that would help wait times right now is right, longer hours, entertainment pulling people away from rides, etc.

Worse than the current state of lines would be those same very long looking, often outside queues at a completely standstill while a FP line takes overwhelming priority.

A FP line doesn't have to take overwhelming priority. Like all the other aspects of COVID theme park management, that formula needs to be tweaked.

I'm not saying FP is the only solution. I'm just saying that the current park format needs more work.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

A FP line doesn't have to take overwhelming priority. Like all the other aspects of COVID theme park management, that formula needs to be tweaked.

But then when you tweak it you lose FP availability, making it something that benefits a smaller and smaller group of guests. It just does not work well under the current circumstances.

 

[Eric Smith]

A FP line doesn't have to take overwhelming priority. Like all the other aspects of COVID theme park management, that formula needs to be tweaked.

I'm not saying FP is the only solution. I'm just saying that the current park format needs more work.

It can be tweaked, but it’s still going to eat up a significant portion of the standby capacity. There’s also the question of how to phase FP back in. There will have to be some sort of delay. They couldn’t just open up FP availability all at once, that would be a nightmare.

 

[rteetz]

VIP tour capacity has been cut by approximately 90%. 33 and recovery just don't add much capacity. Most FP queues are empty the past two weeks.

Just pointing out things that use those queues right now. As much as you may want it FP+ in its iteration pre-covid isn’t coming back right now.

 

[Pizzaman12]

But then when you tweak it you lose FP availability, making it something that benefits a smaller and smaller group of guests. It just does not work well under the current circumstances.

There are a number of items that need tweaking. But, with long waits for rides they're losing opportunities to maximize revenue per guest. Many of the smaller kiosks that sell treats and retail items are closed down as well, pushing more people to the larger stores, causing longer lines.

When the Carrousel is a 30-minute wait and most everything else is the same or worse it's just not a very pleasant experience. I have to imagine that leads to less ancillary purchases. Shorter park hours trim payroll but also force people to stay the entire day to get their money's worth.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's plenty of fun to be had. But, back to the original statement I was responding to. I don't think wait times are shorter than when FP was around. That's not all due to FP. It's due to significantly reduced capacity on attractions that used to be people eaters. That's a problem Disney needs a better solution to.

 

[Pizzaman12]

Just pointing out things that use those queues right now. As much as you may want it FP+ in its iteration pre-covid isn’t coming back right now.

I'm not advocating for FP to come back, per se. Just don't agree with the assertion that wait times are shorter now because FP is gone. In many cases, I don't believe ride times are shorter, which is a pure capacity issue.

I don't see Disney dialing back the number of people in the parks. To do that they'd need unbelievable confidence that it would lead to a stark increase in revenue per guest.

They do need some other sort of solution to manage the queues, and the lack of flow caused by expanded queues. Now is a great time to experiment, whether on FP or other radical ideas to find solutions that organized the lines and keep guests occupied.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

There are a number of items that need tweaking. But, with long waits for rides they're losing opportunities to maximize revenue per guest. Many of the smaller kiosks that sell treats and retail items are closed down as well, pushing more people to the larger stores, causing longer lines.

When the Carrousel is a 30-minute wait and most everything else is the same or worse it's just not a very pleasant experience. I have to imagine that leads to less ancillary purchases. Shorter park hours trim payroll but also force people to stay the entire day to get their money's worth.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's plenty of fun to be had. But, back to the original statement I was responding to. I don't think wait times are shorter than when FP was around. That's not all due to FP. It's due to significantly reduced capacity on attractions that used to be people eaters. That's a problem Disney needs a better solution to.

I think it’s like before the pandemic when we used to talk about how the crowded feel at the parks was made worse by Disney having less regular hours than years past with record breaking crowds. Those are the types of things that would be overall helpful right now, to lowering wait times. The best fix is always going to be increased capacity, achieved by more things to do, more time to get more people through things, and the pandemic specific fix - more people in each vehicle/theatre. Some FP like program doesn’t necessarily help overall although it may help the small group of people who can utilize it well, which it makes sense would be tougher in current WDW. FP+ itself is notorious for ruining a lot of the traditional walk on or low wait attractions, and this was accomplished by adding FP+ to it.

At the end of the day the problem right now is capacity on specific attractions as well as overall park capacity. To take the heat off of certain attractions, restaurants, and stores, the only thing that would really work well IMO is more to do or more time to do it in. Even a virtual queue system is still a problem when those people not standing in line are looking for something to do.

TBH I’m not convinced Disney is ready to staff parks and run things at the level that would make a difference. I don’t know that they do see this as a problem that needs fixing like we do, unless fixing means Genie granting wishes for a fee. I wonder if they coast until attraction and park capacity can be safely increased. So many of our conversations here are about Disney just doing X, Y, or Z and they would make more money, and those things probably would increase revenues but I think we’re just looking at a totally different WDW than March 2020 and before, and some of those things are not worth the cost right now. Otherwise, I think they’d already be happening.

 

[rteetz]

I'm not advocating for FP to come back, per se. Just don't agree with the assertion that wait times are shorter now because FP is gone. In many cases, I don't believe ride times are shorter, which is a pure capacity issue.

I don't see Disney dialing back the number of people in the parks. To do that they'd need unbelievable confidence that it would lead to a stark increase in revenue per guest.

They do need some other sort of solution to manage the queues, and the lack of flow caused by expanded queues. Now is a great time to experiment, whether on FP or other radical ideas to find solutions that organized the lines and keep guests occupied.

With the current situation adding FP would increase wait times. In a normal full capacity situation no it would change too much but because of the lower capacity attractions right now it would only hurt it more. I think we see some sort of virtual queues before anything else.

 

[paradesintherain]

The FP debate is so tiring.

 

[PixarBall]

Have any Disney hotels soldout?? I’m unsure if I’m going next week or the week after but I’m worried about a hotel selling out possibly. Thanks for any wisdom from the elite Disney fans

 

[Moliphino]

There are a number of items that need tweaking. But, with long waits for rides they're losing opportunities to maximize revenue per guest. Many of the smaller kiosks that sell treats and retail items are closed down as well, pushing more people to the larger stores, causing longer lines.

A whole lot of stores are still closed, too, not just kiosks (Epcot seemed especially bad - most stores in Germany/Italy/France/UK/Canada were not open). There just aren't enough places for people to go when they aren't in line/on a ride right now.