DDP Rumor and affect on DVC Member Perceived Value

[jjohnson]

The other rumour is it will be appetizer, dessert or alcoholic drink but it hasn't been discussed much on the boards.

 

[gracelrm]

I have no idea of how much a TS wait staff is paid; however on our last trip in June a waiter at LeCellier told us he had been there 18 years. One would assume he is paid fairly good wages/tips to have stayed waiting tables that long. He, by the way, was an excellent waiter and we'll try to ask for him the next time we eat there!

 

[DebbieB]

From what i garnered from our conversation, the server jobs at TS sites are very desireable, ergo the 5 others waiting in line...or perhaps it's just what they're told when they complain.

No bashing here, just hope the servers don't come out short due to this change. I've never waited tables, have moonlighted as a bartender...it's not as easy as it looks.

Not sure what their hourly pay rate is, in my neck of the woods, servers are lucky to earn $3 hour; depend on tips to survive. Perhaps someone can chime in here who is aware of the salary structure for CM waitstaff.

I've heard wait staff is a very in demand job at WDW because the tips are very lucrative. Considering the menu prices are twice what you would see elsewhere for something comparable, their tips have to be very good. Consider a character dinner is now approaching $30 for adults. Even a 15% tip would give them $18 for 4 adults (especially considering 10 or over is considered an adult), 18% would be over $20. Times how many tables they have. I don't begrudge them their tips, I just don't believe the "poor cm's only make minimum wage so let's tip them extra (beyond 18% included in DDP)". They are doing very well.

 

[patsal]

FWIW, years ago when DD was 5 (she's 12 now) we had dinner at 'Ohana. It was early and the waiter had time to spend. He talked with us extensively and asked about where we lived, what we did for a living, etc. When I told him I was a teacher he said he was too, but working at WDW paid at least triple what he made as a teacher. I called him on it and said that seemed really high--he insisted explained the table turnover and that between tips and regular salary he was then making well into the $80's. He said some people were cheap with the tips but others were very generous and that made up for it by averaging. Now this was well before the DDP and would imagine that with DDP and restaurants always very full that 18% adds up fast--think CG where I always tip 25%--what can I say I've always had great service. With DDP my server gets about a $70 tip when all four of us dine together--I bring that up with an additional $30+ and that is a much beter wage than I make. I do not begrudge anyone a high salary, but I would say that you picked the career so it can't be that bad if you are still doing it after all these years and if the ratio between positions and availability is 5 to 1 it can't be that bad.
Back to the OP--at first I thought I would mind paying the tip, then I thought maybe it wouldn't be so bad--I already add to the tip to bring it up, we already only order what we want and will eat (not maxing the plan) so maybe there will be other modifications to feign us into perceived value.

 

[keishashadow]

I've heard wait staff is a very in demand job at WDW because the tips are very lucrative. Considering the menu prices are twice what you would see elsewhere for something comparable, their tips have to be very good. Consider a character dinner is now approaching $30 for adults. Even a 15% tip would give them $18 for 4 adults (especially considering 10 or over is considered an adult), 18% would be over $20. Times how many tables they have. I don't begrudge them their tips, I just don't believe the "poor cm's only make minimum wage so let's tip them extra (beyond 18% included in DDP)". They are doing very well.

Unless we receive special attention, rarely have i tipped above & over the 18% @ WDW on the DP, think it's generous (especially at the buffet service you reference); and factoring for both inflated food costs and more-than-often-not, perfunctory service.

I am certainly not a fan of the guaranteed 18% tip system on the DP, think overall service has declined because of it (had an issue when i paid OOP @ H&V during recent trip - elaborated upon in my TR posted on that thread).

Unfortunately, i do think if a min. gratuity is eliminated entirely, there will be a large contingent of already maxed out guests who won't tip fairly, even if they do receive good service. Assume it would lead to a mass exodus of veteran CMs moving on to greener pastures.

If it were my call, in order to guarantee a min. tip (have been told there is a certain % formula they must report to IRS whether they receive it or not ); there should be a 10% minimum gratuity built into the plan. Effectively, Disney would still garner an 8% rate hike in the plan.

Probably the only way to gurantee both a base wage & encouragement for lackadasial servers to raise the bar of service, in order to earn a larger, more-appreciative tip.

 

[goofy4tink]

Since DVC offered us the option of getting the DDP, I have had to sit and figure which is going to be better for my family...DDP or DDE. It has usually come out pretty close, but with the tip being already included in the DDP, we have gone with that for the past few trips. I actually prefer a system that allows me to decide how much I want to tip. I seldom tip below 15%, and that is for mediocre service. It's usually closer to 20%. In fact, when I use the DDE card, I tip whatever the discount was, as long as I got decent service.

I have to say that I have seen the exact same servers at some of the restaurants over many different visits...Crystal Palace, Chef Mickeys, Prime Time to name some. I have to believe that those servers are making a pretty decent living if they have been there for years.

So, if DDP does away with the gratuity, but leaves the price as it is now, I have to think that we'll be using our DDE card for the most part....as well as a bit more 'bagal toasting' rather than restaurant breakfasts!!! No way am I going to be doing actual cooking....dear heaven..it's vacation people. How is it a vacation for me if I have to cook!!!!

 

[pilferk]

I just can't think of any reason to actually use the kitchen..

MG

Midnight snacks...storing the leftovers from all the DDP (or non-DDP) food for midnight snacks, storing the acompaniments for midnight snacks...oh, and breakfast.

 

[pilferk]

DDE has always been the way to go for our family, so changes to DDP won't impact us at all. Assuming that Disney needs to cut costs somehow, I've always wondered why they didn't change the TS meals to an appetizer OR a dessert. I mean, how many of us comfortably consume that much food in a typical meal, much less once per day for 6 or 8 days straight?!?! If you've got a party of 4 dining, you can still get 2 appetizers and 2 desserts to share, and probably a lot less food waste.

I agree...it's a LOT of food. We'd likely (if paying OOP) do 1 app for the table (5 of us), and 1 (or 2, MAX) desserts for the whole table. One for each person would be WAY too much for us.

The DDP makes good sense to us because we tend, right now, to do LOTS of buffets (character and otherwise) for our TS choices. It's just easier with the kids, because they don't have to wait (though, to be fair, they're pretty good about waiting at "regular" TS places) and we can pace ourselves a bit slower (my kids will eat pretty much anything, but they eat it SLOWLY).

I see that changing once the kids get a bit older...and we'll probably go the DDE route at that point. If the eliminate the tip...we may go that route THIS next trip...we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Inkmahm]

Given that they employ about 60,000 people and the wages aren't great for many positions, Disney is always on the verge of a labor shortage. No mystery that there would be people lined up for food service jobs given the prospective compensation involved.

Exactly. The waitstaff at the TS restaurants at Disney live in utopia. Where else can you work where there is never a slow night and most likely a line of people waiting to be seated every night of the year? They do work hard, no doubt about it. Being so busy means they rarely get a break, either. BUT, I believe they get paid very well for what they do. That 5 people waiting for each job makes sense to me.

I love the DDE card because it makes tipping easy. Whatever the 20% discount is, that's what I add as the tip for the server.

 

[disneynutz]

It has been reported by CMs that servers don't get 18% of the DDP total bill. They get their tip money based upon some Disney formula for Disney owned restaurants and even less at non Disney owned locations. That's why the Union fought to remove the included tip from the DDP starting next year. There may be a waiting list of CMs wanting to be servers but we noticed that many of the servers are in the collage internship program. By the time their year is up they have received some collage credits and experience but not a lot of money. By the time they pay for room and board and taxes, they report that they have made good money but not great money. Disney isn't one of those, pay your tip money under the table type of businesses. Every penny is accounted for and reported to the IRS.

 

[pilferk]

It has been reported by CMs that servers don't get 18% of the DDP total bill. They get their tip money based upon some Disney formula for Disney owned restaurants and even less at non Disney owned locations. That's why the Union fought to remove the included tip from the DDP starting next year. There may be a waiting list of CMs wanting to be servers but we noticed that many of the servers are in the collage internship program. By the time their year is up they have received some collage credits and experience but not a lot of money. By the time they pay for room and board and taxes, they report that they have made good money but not great money. Disney isn't one of those, pay your tip money under the table type of businesses. Every penny is accounted for and reported to the IRS.

From what I've heard, it was Disney (NOT the union) who fought to remove the tip from the DDP in the contract language. The concession from Disney was, in fact, adding an automatic gratuity to any check using the DDE, and to lower the "automatic" tip for large parties from parties of 8 to parties of 6.

I've seen varying reports from both CM's and "insiders" here on the disboards. The one most often seen is that the servers at Disney owned resorts get 18% on the cost from Disney' DDP budget, and the difference between that, and the 18% on the total bill, from the budget of the restaurant. In places NOT owned by Disney, they ONLY get the 18% on cost...the restaurant doesn't make up the difference.

Not sure if that's true, or not, but it's the account I've read most often.

 

[Inkmahm]

It has been reported by CMs that servers don't get 18% of the DDP total bill. They get their tip money based upon some Disney formula for Disney owned restaurants and even less at non Disney owned locations. That's why the Union fought to remove the included tip from the DDP starting next year. There may be a waiting list of CMs wanting to be servers but we noticed that many of the servers are in the collage internship program. By the time their year is up they have received some collage credits and experience but not a lot of money. By the time they pay for room and board and taxes, they report that they have made good money but not great money. Disney isn't one of those, pay your tip money under the table type of businesses. Every penny is accounted for and reported to the IRS.

I would hope that every penny IS accounted for and reported.

At the TS restaurants, I don't remember seeing college interns. I've seen the same waiters at Cali Grill, Brown Derby, etc. for years. Still, anyway you look at it, I'm saying they are making great money. The bill for the two of us for dinner is usually about $120 or so. That's a $24 from me. I figure I'm not the only table the waiter has, either. $40 per hour ($80k per year) I would think is easily doable for tips at the better TS restaurants. Plus whatever Disney actually pays them for wages.

 

[JimMIA]

It has been reported by CMs that servers don't get 18% of the DDP total bill. They get their tip money based upon some Disney formula for Disney owned restaurants and even less at non Disney owned locations.

The most reliable information I have seen is that the servers at Disney-owned restaurants DO get the full 18%. Apparently DDP pays all of the restaurants 18% of what they consider the TS meal to be worth within the overall $38.99 daily cost of DDP. I've heard that's about $25, so they would pay the restaurant about $4.50. The Disney-owned restaurants make up the difference between 18% of the menu price and whatever they receive from DDP.

Some of the non-Disney restaurants do NOT make up the difference. I have heard Raglan Road is one where the servers don't get the full tip, and I'm sure there are others.

Of course, when you are talking about tip income, it's worth remembering that the server doesn't get anywhere near all of that 18%. The bussers get some, bartenders get 10% of all bar orders, the hosts/hostesses get some...quite a bit comes out of that 18%, and that is true in any restaurant.

That's why the Union fought to remove the included tip from the DDP starting next year.

The union was not in favor of removing the tip. In fact, the original contract was rejected by the union. It was only approved when Disney sweetened the pot in other areas.

 

[JimMIA]

...then would this change your percieved value of the DDP and eating at the Disney sit down restaurants?

Getting back to OP's original question, yes, removal of the gratuity from DDP would reduce the value of DDP to me. Not just perceived value, real value. If that happens, every family will have to evaluate DDP based on their own needs -- it may still be a great plan for some families, and it may be worth nothing to others.

We fall into the "DDP would be worthless to us" category, because with our family composition and eating habits at WDW, we only save a little money with DDP as it is. We use it as much for convenience as we do for saving money. Our response would be to eat all but a few meals offsite. There are a number of really excellent restaurants offsite, so I'm sure we'll find food. We'd probably just do one character meal each trip, and that would be it.

Taking out the gratuity would also eliminate the most important perk my family enjoys as DVC owners. (We're Florida residents, so the AP discount means nada to us.) We didn't buy DVC for the perks (neither the AP discount nor DDP were around when we bought), so we'd still be happy, but it would be a small loss to us.

 

[hansel1]

Getting back to whether the DDP is right for you. Don't forget that the DDP pays for the taxes of each meal. That's no small amount for some restaurant bills.

Taxes! Tips! Value! Why, oh, why did we all take the old DDP for granted?

In my greatest STING impersonation: "I WANT MY D...D...P...!"

That was for those of you old enough to remember the early 80s.

 

[La2kw]

We are at OKW right now and we have definitely put our kitchen to use this year. Between meals in, CS lunches, and driving offsite to eat at non-Disney restaurants, we have saved a ton of money and eaten well (and healthier, too). The few Disney meals we have endured this year have been marked by poor service, smaller portions, boring menus, overcrowded restaurants, and high prices. We don't do DDP because in all our many trips to WDW, we have never spent as much money on food as the DDP would have cost us. This year we have spent less money on dining at Disney restaurants than we ever have in the past. We have eaten mostly counter service lunches in the parks, and still haven't had a burger yet. We have had pizza, a variety of salads, shwarma, teriyaki, sushi, tuna sandwiches, roast chicken, clam chowder, veggie wraps, cuban sandwiches, fish & chips, quiche, roast pork loin, chili, tacos, and bratwurst as well as other items. It's been great because the meals we have eaten offsite have been much better quality and the service has been excellent.

 

[BEACHCLUBVILLAS]

Getting back to whether the DDP is right for you. Don't forget that the DDP pays for the taxes of each meal. That's no small amount for some restaurant bills.

Taxes! Tips! Value! Why, oh, why did we all take the old DDP for granted?

In my greatest STING impersonation: "I WANT MY D...D...P...!"

That was for those of you old enough to remember the early 80s.

Are they taking taxes out too????

For us, we are using the DDP for our trip in October. If they take the tips out, it's no longer a good deal to us. If they also take taxes out, then in my opinion it's a downright bad deal. It becomes a situation where the buyer prepays full price for food that is more than we'd normally eat anyway. More than likely, Disney comes out way ahead and the product is no longer valuable to me. I'd rather buy what I use on or off site or heaven forbid actually use that full kitchen. Wait, I"ll have to rent a car to eat off site or grocery shop. Will that offset any savings on meals? Yes. But, now I can think about all that extra time I found not waiting for the bus and I have the freedom to roam off site.

 

[jvaleri1]

If you bought your DVC through Disney and look at the history under news, the DDP was $36.99 last year ('06) and went up just a dollar in '07. I'm hoping for just a modest increase since we're going in January with 6 people.

 

[DebbieB]

If you bought your DVC through Disney and look at the history under news, the DDP was $36.99 last year ('06) and went up just a dollar in '07. I'm hoping for just a modest increase since we're going in January with 6 people.

But if they take out tips, leaving it the same price is equivalent to an 18% increase since the tips will have to come out of your pocket when you are here.

 

[JimMIA]

There are a number of threads going on about this topic on various boards, but if you look over on the DDP board, you will see that UK tour operators are already selling 2008 DDP which includes NEITHER appetizers nor gratuity.

There has obviously been no official announcement from Disney about US offerings of DDP, but this certainly does not look promising.