Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[Aluminum Falcon]

While the primary purpose of adding parks may not have been to absorb crowds, it certainly allowed Disney to accept more people into the parks.

I am no expert in crowd control or ways to handle overcrowding, but I do think there are better ways to handle it than has been done recently at WDW, maybe the better answer is expansion in the existing parks, but the additions of Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge did not really provide attractions to deal with a lot of additional people - leading to problems with FP+ which translated into really long standby lines because they needed the FP+ line to keep moving - and now the change to Genie+ which is at least partially being introduced to help solve the issues with FP+.

If you believe the parks are currently overcrowded (the thought just that the parks on average are crowded all year long instead of only during peak season), my opinion is just that if Disney were able to better handle the crowds they wouldn't necessarily have to replace and charge for FP+ they could have kept it the way it was. The solution they chose was to charge customers to solve their problem instead - which imho feels like what might be a good business decision, but not a good decision for customers, and while I know Disney is a business - I thought first and foremost customer satisfaction was their priority - and it seems like that is shifting over the last year with perks going away and towards profitability even if guest satisfaction is sacrified.

That’s where I am seeing an issue, how do we know the average guest is dissatisfied with what is being offered/ do they know things have been taken away from them. I’ve said this a lot, but these boards, in no way reflect the views of the average guest,( and that’s a good thing haha), I just think it’s premature to call the changes a failure without even seeing them in place yet. I think a lot of people need to take a deep breath, companies will always charge more when they can, but that doesn’t mean they are turning their backs on their guests. It’s a delicate balance between giving guests what they would want, and making their shareholders wealthier, an imbalance in either direction is bad for a company always

 

[HashberryOTG]

Its because over the past 15 years you've slowly but surely been getting less value for your dollar - even when you account for inflation.

It's pretty common for luxury items to outpace inflation. Altho lately, I imagine even if you did this chart up for bread or milk or eggs or chicken it might look similar. Probably not as extreme, but other than the word "inflation" I swear it feels like nothing has stayed with it!

 

[Liquidice]

That’s where I am seeing an issue, how do we know the average guest is dissatisfied with what is being offered/ do they know things have been taken away from them. I’ve said this a lot, but these boards, in no way reflect the views of the average guest,( and that’s a good thing haha), I just think it’s premature to call the changes a failure without even seeing them in place yet. I think a lot of people need to take a deep breath, companies will always charge more when they can, but that doesn’t mean they are turning their backs on their guests. It’s a delicate balance between giving guests what they would want, and making their shareholders wealthier, an imbalance in either direction is bad for a company always

True, my opinion is that dropping perks and charging customers for what was once given away for free is not in the best interest of customers and would lower guest satisfaction - that sort of makes sense to me, but some customers could either not care / not know that the perks are gone or are OK with the perks being gone and are willing to pay extra.

I agree with waiting it out to see how it turns out - I'm just more pessimistic about how I'll feel about it once it is running. It is totally feasible that I'm pleasantly surprised by the changes and I'll be willing to pay for Genie+ - I just doubt it.

One interesting tidbit is that the 3 Genie videos that Disney Parks posted on YouTube have ~70% dislikes compared to most of their videos which have a majority (90% or more usually) of likes. YouTube still isn't the entire demographic of Disney's customers, but I would think it represents a greater demographic than these forums. And while some people may dislike the change - they may still choose to pay for it and voting with your dollars is a bigger indicator than a dislike on YouTube ... but time will tell on how popular this is.

I suspect it will probably be very popular and Disney will continue to monetize other things which were once free. Maybe guest satisfaction will continue to be high with these changes, especially if it increases choice while preventing prices for other things from increasing ... I dunno.

The pessimist in me thinks that they will continue to raise prices everywhere along with adding these new charges - and for me that will ultimately drive me to not be a Disney parks goer anymore and I'm not happy about that. Thats me though and it will probably be different for others.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

True, my opinion is that dropping perks and charging customers for what was once given away for free is not in the best interest of customers and would lower guest satisfaction - that sort of makes sense to me, but some customers could either not care / not know that the perks are gone or are OK with the perks being gone and are willing to pay extra.

I agree with waiting it out to see how it turns out - I'm just more pessimistic about how I'll feel about it once it is running. It is totally feasible that I'm pleasantly surprised by the changes and I'll be willing to pay for Genie+ - I just doubt it.

One interesting tidbit is that the 3 Genie videos that Disney Parks posted on YouTube have ~70% dislikes compared to most of their videos which have a majority (90% or more usually) of likes. YouTube still isn't the entire demographic of Disney's customers, but I would think it represents a greater demographic than these forums. And while some people may dislike the change - they may still choose to pay for it and voting with your dollars is a bigger indicator than a dislike on YouTube ... but time will tell on how popular this is.

I suspect it will probably be very popular and Disney will continue to monetize other things which were once free. Maybe guest satisfaction will continue to be high with these changes, especially if it increases choice while preventing prices for other things from increasing ... I dunno.

The pessimist in me thinks that they will continue to raise prices everywhere along with adding these new charges - and for me that will ultimately drive me to not be a Disney parks goer anymore and I'm not happy about that. Thats me though and it will probably be different for others.

well said! The only comment I have is that I would wager that anytime a company comes out and says we are now charging you for something (could be anything), that’s all people hear, and dislike it immediately. I think if genie and genie plus were offered as free, a lot more people on these boards and elsewhere would be all for them,and that like button on YouTube would be broken by now, but all I can do at this point Is speculate

 

[Liquidice]

well said! The only comment I have is that I would wager that anytime a company comes out and says we are now charging you for something (could be anything), that’s all people hear, and dislike it immediately. I think if genie and genie plus were offered as free, a lot more people on these boards and elsewhere would be all for them,and that like button on YouTube would be broken by now, but all I can do at this point Is speculate

Definitely agree if they offered it for free nobody would be complaining at all and the likes would be a lot higher on YT. I actually think if Genie+ included all of the rides there would be a lot less complaining too, at least I would know I'd have to budget in an extra $60 per day for my family of 4 if I want Genie+. Instead there is the looming Tier 1 ride with dynamic pricing where you don't even know how much it will be.

 

[bsmcneil]

I think DVC is targeted at an older group of guests who have a high expendable income, and would not be considered savvy enough to take full advantage of the tech heavy systems they have in place, just my opinion. Now when it comes to renting points, that’s an entirely different story, I believe a younger demographic rents points, and will take full advantage, considering renting points doesn’t seem to be that well understood by the gen pop. So it’s more of a double edged sword, Disney can’t remove point renting, it would destroy their system, but I can’t imagine they like the crowd who rents the points, myself included

I can absolutely say this isn't completely true. DVC has been after me for more than a decade. To be fair, I would seem like a prime candidate based on number of trips, etc and I've expressed enough interest to learn more (but not buy in).

 

[Liquidice]

I can absolutely say this isn't completely true. DVC has been after me for more than a decade. To be fair, I would seem like a prime candidate based on number of trips, etc and I've expressed enough interest to learn more (but not buy in).

The DVC Fan Facebook group that is also run by the DIS is full of people my age (40's) or younger - I don't know if others would consider the ability to use Facebook as "tech savvy" though (I don't). There are certainly people in the group who are older as well - but many of them have been DVC owners for a long time too and bought in when they were much younger and had young children. There might be a perceived notion that the demographic is older because people renting their points might tend to have older children now and not need as many points?

Although the people I have rented from in the past were also younger.

In any case - I do think Disney wants / needs to build and keep loyal set of customers who come to the parks on a regular basis. DVC is proof of that and Disney continues to expand DVC and try to grab more customers (just look how many DVC booths they have around the parks).

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

The DVC Fan Facebook group that is also run by the DIS is full of people my age (40's) or younger - I don't know if others would consider the ability to use Facebook as "tech savvy" though (I don't). There are certainly people in the group who are older as well - but many of them have been DVC owners for a long time too and bought in when they were much younger and had young children. There might be a perceived notion that the demographic is older because people renting their points might tend to have older children now and not need as many points?

Although the people I have rented from in the past were also younger.

In any case - I do think Disney wants / needs to build and keep loyal set of customers who come to the parks on a regular basis. DVC is proof of that and Disney continues to expand DVC and try to grab more customers (just look how many DVC booths they have around the parks).

Those are all good points!, it looks like i stand corrected haha.

I do think that the DVC is unique because you are locked into Disney vacations for the length of your contract, and with all the vacation packages they offer not just to WDW or DL, the program essentially prints money for them. I don't think it's so much about creating loyalty to the park, more about locking in a payment for the next 2 decades, and not letting you take a vacation without paying the mouse

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I can absolutely say this isn't completely true. DVC has been after me for more than a decade. To be fair, I would seem like a prime candidate based on number of trips, etc and I've expressed enough interest to learn more (but not buy in).

I'm in the same boat as you, I've done the tours and watched the videos, but just can't bring myself to pull the trigger. There aren't enough perks in my opinion to justify locking in with Disney, renting points allows me flexibility without having to commit long term, and still pay a fraction of what i would be if i booked Disney direct

 

[glamdring269]

The cost doesn't really dissuade us from visiting at this point but we also need more information before making a decision. It's still not clear to me just how available attractions will be in this system. With FP+ we were able, even on Christmas trips, to sit in lines at Epcot and get our next "good" ride queued up for FP #7, 8, 9 etc. even after rope dropping that morning. Will this still be possible with Genie+? That is the part where I'm looking forward to some anecdotal evidence on once this rolls out.

These experiences have vastly different value to me:

Example #1:
1) Rope Drop MK
2) 7DMT
3) Standby whatever
4) Paid Space Mountain 11AM
5) LL Ride #1 11:30AM
6) Cannot get another LL until 6PM

Example #2:
1) Rope Drop MK
2) 7DMT
3) Standby whatever
4) Paid Space Mountain 11AM
5) LL Ride #1 11:30AM
6) Continual LL without much time gap in between experiences.

#1 has no real value to me. #2 obviously has immense relative value.

Totally separate topic. Talking about $200-300k in income is kind of meaningless without talking about cost of living and debt. Someone who makes $200k but has $1 left after bills is just as poor as the next person, it just doesn't look like it on the surface. Someone who makes $200k with no debt is in much better shape than someone who makes $50k with no debt (assuming certain other aspects like family size and location are similar). HCOL vs. LCOL areas like living in Cali vs. living in Mississippi make a big difference in how far $1 might go.

 

[bsmcneil]

I'm in the same boat as you, I've done the tours and watched the videos, but just can't bring myself to pull the trigger. There aren't enough perks in my opinion to justify locking in with Disney, renting points allows me flexibility without having to commit long term, and still pay a fraction of what i would be if i booked Disney direct

This is me to a T. I wonder, actually, what the pattern of renting and then owning might be. At this point, I'm further away from buying into DVC than I was 2-5 years ago.

 

[Roxyfire]

The cost doesn't really dissuade us from visiting at this point but we also need more information before making a decision. It's still not clear to me just how available attractions will be in this system. With FP+ we were able, even on Christmas trips, to sit in lines at Epcot and get our next "good" ride queued up for FP #7, 8, 9 etc. even after rope dropping that morning. Will this still be possible with Genie+? That is the part where I'm looking forward to some anecdotal evidence on once this rolls out.

These experiences have vastly different value to me:

Example #1:
1) Rope Drop MK
2) 7DMT
3) Standby whatever
4) Paid Space Mountain 11AM
5) LL Ride #1 11:30AM
6) Cannot get another LL until 6PM

Example #2:
1) Rope Drop MK
2) 7DMT
3) Standby whatever
4) Paid Space Mountain 11AM
5) LL Ride #1 11:30AM
6) Continual LL without much time gap in between experiences.

#1 has no real value to me. #2 obviously has immense relative value.

My thought is, the playing field is leveled and segmented. No more prebooked passes (for the exception of DAS who choose 2/day and the paid LL 2/day) Not everyone will purchase the genie+ but undoubtedly many will. So, theoretically, that should keep passes more available throughout the day. But the randomness of next available will probably mess with ADRs and other reservations. As long as either a) the return is not strictly enforced or b) you can tell generally what time it will be, I think it would be ok for most planners. But no real way to tell until people get in there and use it.

 

[IceSkatingPrincess]

I think DVC is targeted at an older group of guests who have a high expendable income, and would not be considered savvy enough to take full advantage of the tech heavy systems they have in place, just my opinion. Now when it comes to renting points, that’s an entirely different story, I believe a younger demographic rents points, and will take full advantage, considering renting points doesn’t seem to be that well understood by the gen pop.

I don't think this is necessarily true, though it may have changed over time. At 28, I'm pretty sure I am in the youngest group of DVC buyers, but there is a lot of marketing aimed at young families growing into both DVC and Disney. I think it is less about age of the buyer and more about visit frequency and disposable income levels. DH and I don't have kids yet but see DVC as something we can both enjoy now and continue to grow into when we get to that point in a few years.

well said! The only comment I have is that I would wager that anytime a company comes out and says we are now charging you for something (could be anything), that’s all people hear, and dislike it immediately. I think if genie and genie plus were offered as free, a lot more people on these boards and elsewhere would be all for them,and that like button on YouTube would be broken by now, but all I can do at this point Is speculate

Exactly this. I think there are going to be some serious pros and cons to Genie+ and a lot of those won't be clear until we see the system in action. I think it was reasonable to assume though that the Disney fan base and public were not going to initially respond well to a previously included benefit suddenly having an upcharge.

 

[shafke]

The cost doesn't really dissuade us from visiting at this point but we also need more information before making a decision. It's still not clear to me just how available attractions will be in this system. With FP+ we were able, even on Christmas trips, to sit in lines at Epcot and get our next "good" ride queued up for FP #7, 8, 9 etc. even after rope dropping that morning. Will this still be possible with Genie+? That is the part where I'm looking forward to some anecdotal evidence on once this rolls out.

These experiences have vastly different value to me:

Example #1:
1) Rope Drop MK
2) 7DMT
3) Standby whatever
4) Paid Space Mountain 11AM
5) LL Ride #1 11:30AM
6) Cannot get another LL until 6PM

Example #2:
1) Rope Drop MK
2) 7DMT
3) Standby whatever
4) Paid Space Mountain 11AM
5) LL Ride #1 11:30AM
6) Continual LL without much time gap in between experiences.

#1 has no real value to me. #2 obviously has immense relative value.

Totally separate topic. Talking about $200-300k in income is kind of meaningless without talking about cost of living and debt. Someone who makes $200k but has $1 left after bills is just as poor as the next person, it just doesn't look like it on the surface. Someone who makes $200k with no debt is in much better shape than someone who makes $50k with no debt (assuming certain other aspects like family size and location are similar). HCOL vs. LCOL areas like living in Cali vs. living in Mississippi make a big difference in how far $1 might go.

In both your examples for option 6 there will most likely always be LL options available. But, will any availability be for a ride you want to go on? One of the problems with FP+ was that after using your original 3 choices the available rides were not something I wished to ride or should never have needed FP. One of the best examples of this was SSE. Except for first thing in the morning the ride was almost a walk on until closing. Many times were would be leaving Epcot and could literally walk on SSE 5 minutes before closing. Even with FP+, after the initial morning rush, the standby usually was not more the 5-10 minutes.

 

[Dis Dragon]

I agree to a certain point about legacy, every CEO at every company is worried about that to an extent. I wouldn’t say Eisner was always one to go after big projects especially on the film side, but he did invest a lot into the parks for sure. Eisner expanded so fast in fact, that Iger and now Chapek are still working to smooth things out, Disneyland Paris comes to mind, as well as not having a clear vision for Hollywood Studios, and still working to fix that to this day. I think Iger and Eisner were both visionaries, Eisner more for domination of every market Disney decided to dip their toe into, and Iger for expanding upon every facet Disney owned through purchases of Fox, Disney plus ect… the jury is still out on Chapek for me right now, way way way to early to pass judgement

Iger did get a present of both Marvel and Star Wars dropped in his lap. Eisner had Katzenberg resurrect the video library and make billions off of it, restarted a renaissance of animated films and created Touchstone which made several hits. The timing and technology was just different for success.

George Lucas wasn't ready to give up during Eisner's era either. Marvel wasn't ripe because of the technology of the time, it would have been more of a cartoon back then.

I think the biggest thing about Chapek is he's not cut from the same cloth as Eisner and Iger, he's a merchandise guy where both of them were media and creative orientated. (With Eisner being way more aggressive)

 

[Dis Dragon]

I can absolutely say this isn't completely true. DVC has been after me for more than a decade. To be fair, I would seem like a prime candidate based on number of trips, etc and I've expressed enough interest to learn more (but not buy in).

To be fair DVC is after anything that has a pulse. Most of the DVC CM's I've met are really good people persons, but I'm so tired of the marketing I try to not make eye contact when passing a booth.

We've done some comparisons and to use DVC with the same way we go to Disney now we'd have to drop somewhere between 75k-100k on a contract and then be willing to go there for at least the next 12 years for vacation to see that value. Not willing to be tied down like that, there's other places to see.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Iger did get a present of both Marvel and Star Wars dropped in his lap. Eisner had Katzenberg resurrect the video library and make billions off of it, restarted a renaissance of animated films and created Touchstone which made several hits. The timing and technology was just different for success.

George Lucas wasn't ready to give up during Eisner's era either. Marvel wasn't ripe because of the technology of the time, it would have been more of a cartoon back then.

I think the biggest thing about Chapek is he's not cut from the same cloth as Eisner and Iger, he's a merchandise guy where both of them were media and creative orientated. (With Eisner being way more aggressive)

Agreed! the only adder i would say is that Eisner was Aggressive to a fault, he seemed to personally destroy the relationship with Pixar, and Steve Jobs. Iger essentially dug them out of the hole Eisner left them in, and turned it into arguably one of Disneys greatest maneuvers. I think Eisner was at his best when he had a built in check to his aggressiveness (aka Frank Wells), and his legacy without Wells, at least in my opinion is a little tarnished.

Side note, Eisner just got crushed at Topps with the MLB falling through with them on baseball cards

 

[bsmcneil]

To be fair DVC is after anything that has a pulse. Most of the DVC CM's I've met are really good people persons, but I'm so tired of the marketing I try to not make eye contact when passing a booth.

Fair. But ouch

 

[DefnotDLav]

The main question I have is will our experience without Genie + be the same as it was with FP+ or FP-?

Meaning, can my fam of 5 ride the same amount of attractions in the same amount of time as we did with the previous free iterations?

If not, then Genie+ would obviously be a failure for us.

Kinda glad we started reading the Potter books as a fam recently......

 

[Jrb1979]

The main question I have is will our experience without Genie + be the same as it was with FP+ or FP-?

Meaning, can my fam of 5 ride the same amount of attractions in the same amount of time as we did with the previous free iterations?

If not, then Genie+ would obviously be a failure for us.

Kinda glad we started reading the Potter books as a fam recently......

My thinking is Disney believes the majority of people will still get 3 rides at minimum with Genie+. If you get more its a bonus.