DVC has stopped returning borrowed points to original use year

[Cyberc1978]

^^^ this

 

[Novakm]

Actually, the only true legal way to do it, that we know about, is to have not waived any rules

I don’t believe there is anything DVCMC could have done that followed the contracts and all laws exactly.

It would have been illegal for them to remain open once they determined that closing was in the best interest of the membership, so they could not legally stay open.

Once they did close, it caused there to be more points in the system than rooms available for booking. This is a violation of FLA timeshare laws. The only way the contracts allow for fixing this is by suspending banking and borrowing rules, but that won’t work on a problem this size. So what do you do when you can’t legally follow the contract? You work with all parties to find a legal and equitable solution. That means voting.

The secondary problem is some people are losing points as a result of the closing. Not everyone with March reservations is affected. Only certain use years with banked or borrowed points. This is a very small group. There is nothing in the contracts that allows DVCMC to invalidate points for a small group of owners, but that is what’s happening. So these people need to be compensated, or there WILL be lawsuits. The only remedy allowed in the contracts to compensate these people is suspending banking and borrowing rules. So this is what they need to do.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t believe there is anything DVCMC could have done that followed the contracts and all laws exactly.

It would have been illegal for them to remain open once they determined that closing was in the best interest of the membership, so they could not legally stay open.

Once they did close, it caused there to be more points in the system than rooms available for booking. This is a violation of FLA timeshare laws. The only way the contracts allow for fixing this is by suspending banking and borrowing rules, but that won’t work on a problem this size. So what do you do when you can’t legally follow the contract? You work with all parties to find a legal and equitable solution. That means voting.

The secondary problem is some people are losing points as a result of the closing. Not everyone with March reservations is affected. Only certain use years with banked or borrowed points. This is a very small group. There is nothing in the contracts that allows DVCMC to invalidate points for a small group of owners, but that is what’s happening. So these people need to be compensated, or there WILL be lawsuits. The only remedy allowed in the contracts to compensate these people is suspending banking and borrowing rules. So this is what they need to do.

They do have emergency powers to shut down the resorts so If the lost points are a result of that action, I’m not sure I understand how that translates in an illegal move by DVC if some points expire or how thst would be seen to violate timeshare law.l

In terms of voting, again, there is nothing there that allows members to have one, so I see thst any changes would be a vote by the board of directors,

Like I said, right now, as an owner, my knowledge of legal is what the contract says because that is all I am privy to.

That didn’t mean that there are not other legal avenues, but those would only be known right now to those in charge,

Yes, they have to figure out what to do. But, honestly, I still believe that what should be happening is sticking to the rules, and suspend banking and borrowing in future years.

I am sure that whatever avenue they take, will create upset owners who lose points, either now or in the future due to lack of availability.

 

[Deploraboo]

We’re I a DVC owner here I’d check the offering docs to see if DIs has wholesale power to suspend all resales and/just not approve them in its sole discretion Bb/c if they do, that’s next.

 

[Sandisw]

We’re I a DVC owner here I’d check the offering docs to see if DIs has wholesale power to suspend all resales and/just not approve them in its sole discretion Bb/c if they do, that’s next.

They can not legally prevent an owner for selling a contract. It’s a deeded piece of real estate.

They don’t approve a sale. They only have the right to decide if they want the sale to go to another owner or if they want to buy it back for the agreed price.

So, they step in and become the buyer or they don’t, and the sale goes through

 

[Deploraboo]

Probably worse. No price floor.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Probably worse. No price floor.

They could decide not to buy any contracts back through ROFR. That would make the contracts drop in price.

but thats not really an action take due to the current issue with the points.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

They could decide not to buy any contracts back through ROFR. That would make the contracts drop in price.

but thats not really an action take due to the current issue with the points.

That also makes the argument of resale vs direct easier for buyers and more difficult for DVC with the high prices they've forged forward with.

 

[Sandisw]

They could decide not to buy any contracts back through ROFR. That would make the contracts drop in price.

but thats not really an action take due to the current issue with the points.

The other part could be that the number of contracts that go for ROFR may slow down if buyers are hesitant to buy in this market...like the buyer who just pulled out of mine.

 

[Hjs33]

It’s going to be a legal issue no matter what they do. Just making people forfeit banked & borrowed points they used for March is no where near enough to make up for weeks of closure. It’s just a small fraction of the points used in March.

I think the only “legal” way to do this is to refund all points not honored into next use year, and then have the full membership vote on how to solve the imbalance once the full extent of the imbalance thereis known.

If full membership votes, it would be pretty hard to challenge in court.

I think your being too optimistic that the full membership is going to be willing to have two or more years of bad availability to bail out the small percentage of members that had reservations canceled. Maybe if this goes on for half a year, a majority of the membership would vote to do something favorable because most would be impacted, but can you image the magnitude of the mess if they tried to carry forward 40 million points or so into next year. I just don’t see it working and that’s probably why they stopped bending the rules.

At best I think once Disney reopens there might be a lot of empty cash rooms at first at all their resorts. Maybe they offer a 60-80% large discount to people who lost points. DVC members get a cheap room and Disney gets bodies into otherwise empty rooms and people back into the parks spending money.

 

[rg35]

This is an unprecedented situation. It sucks that people might lose points, but inventory can't be thrown out of wack for years on end to offer some kind of points restitution to a small number of members who will lose points now.

We had a trip planned for June-July, which I have rebooked for August. The way things are looking now, who knows if even that will happen. I have about 150 points banked from last year that I stand to lose if I can't use them this year (which as we move from summer and back into the school year, becomes less and less likely. If I lose those points, it is what it is. People are dying and we are essentially in quarantine -- worrying about losing vacation points isn't really on the first two pages of things that I'm thinking about.

 

[Sandisw]

This is an unprecedented situation. It sucks that people might lose points, but inventory can't be thrown out of wack for years on end to offer some kind of points restitution to a small number of members who will lose points now.

We had a trip planned for June-July, which I have rebooked for August. The way things are looking now, who knows if even that will happen. I have about 150 points banked from last year that I stand to use if I can't use them this year (which as we move from summer and back into the school year, becomes less and less likely. If I lose those points, it is what it is. People are dying and we are essentially in quarantine -- worrying about losing vacation points isn't really on the first two pages of things that I'm thinking about.

Very well said. It’s why I think anyone right now who has vulnerable points tied up in reservations that are still bankable or can be rebooked for summer and beyond, they should do that.

If not, they take on the risk....like I am doing....of losing points.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Perhaps they will exercise rofr a lot more and use those points to cover the imbalance.
When back in balance they can resell those points.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Perhaps they will exercise rofr a lot more and use those points to cover the imbalance.
When back in balance they can resell those points.

I think its a great idea and it could potentially work if they got a lot of points. Unfortunately I dont think it will happen as Disney could be strapped for cash with the closure of parks etc so they need every penny they got.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I don’t believe there is anything DVCMC could have done that followed the contracts and all laws exactly.

It would have been illegal for them to remain open once they determined that closing was in the best interest of the membership, so they could not legally stay open.

Once they did close, it caused there to be more points in the system than rooms available for booking. This is a violation of FLA timeshare laws. The only way the contracts allow for fixing this is by suspending banking and borrowing rules, but that won’t work on a problem this size. So what do you do when you can’t legally follow the contract? You work with all parties to find a legal and equitable solution. That means voting.

The secondary problem is some people are losing points as a result of the closing. Not everyone with March reservations is affected. Only certain use years with banked or borrowed points. This is a very small group. There is nothing in the contracts that allows DVCMC to invalidate points for a small group of owners, but that is what’s happening. So these people need to be compensated, or there WILL be lawsuits. The only remedy allowed in the contracts to compensate these people is suspending banking and borrowing rules. So this is what they need to do.

I'm not sure your first point violates any laws. It wouldn't have been illegal for them to stay open. It was a decision based on current circumstances.
I do agree with your second point. Allowing borrowed points to be returned to their original UY or points from this use year to be banked for those that are already in months 9-12 of their use year would only affect April and June UY contracts. Every other UY still has the ability to bank their points. It's only two UY months...it's not the end of the world. If you have an August UY you can still bank points, so yes having to cancel a trip in the near future is annoying buy at least those people can still bank and keep the points. Those of us that had a March trip with an April UY or March/April trip with a June UY (my situation) are the ones that are going to get shafted if DVC doesn't allow us to bank the points. I can't imagine the group of people in those situations in terribly large.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Very well said. It’s why I think anyone right now who has vulnerable points tied up in reservations that are still bankable or can be rebooked for summer and beyond, they should do that.

If not, they take on the risk....like I am doing....of losing points.

I completely agree. I posted something below that is similar to your response. If you have an August-March UY, I would bank those points. The people that DVC should make an exception for are those with April and June UY's that had reservations in March, April or May. I can't imagine people in that exact situation represents an enormous population that would throw everything out of whack. Number one, the UYs are narrowed to April and June. Number two, contracts with those UYs would have to have reservations in March-May...again, a window of three months. IMO, it doesn't make sense that DVC wouldn't make it right for those people. Especially when word is already out that they were making that exact exception up until last week.

 

[tbay]

Here is hoping they make some kind of exception for borrowed points for June use year. If the resorts
are closed till the end of May we would have no where to use them as they exp on May31st

 

[Cyberc1978]

Here is hoping they make some kind of exception for borrowed points for June use year. If the resorts
are closed till the end of May we would have no where to use them as they exp on May31st

Sorry i'm not hoping they would do that. IF they allow any exceptions then what if John Doe in 5 months have forgot about his banking window shouldn't he get an exception too then? in that case the impact would be non-existent as its only one member. DVC need to draw a line now and not allow anyone any exceptions when it comes to banking.

They could allow you to bank to RCI even with short notice then you can still use your points and the inventory wont take a big hit for the foreseeable future. Maybe even allow all members to use points towards the regular Disney hotel. Another maybe not so popular options is to create another membership magic "event" only for eligible expiring or expired points.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Or just as easy, keep things as is, don’t change the rules, and suspend banking and borrowing.

But, from what they have done, it seems like they are trying to help but being mindful of the future.

As an owner, I am glad they are taking their time and making sure that the ultimate impact is good for both short term and long term.

But also remember, the Disney resorts side is suffering as well so taking that much inventory out of service for regular hotel guests makes a change like this much more difficult.

Ooooh...sorry, but disagree.
Suspending banking-borrowing would be a disaster. Your contract is a set number of points, but your trip isn't that same number of points and was never meant to be. You think members are complaining now? Just suspend banking-borrowing and yearn for the good ol' days!
Taking cash resort inventory out of the system to make DVC members whole on the other hand, THAT would work, and would not be as big of a deal as you might think. Reason being, I believe occupancy will be really low in the next year or so. Better to open this up to DVC members needing to use their points than to leave it empty. That goes for all resorts, not just Riviera.

 

[Dtw002]

Ok what’s the deal with borrowed points, as of 10am est on Monday March 23rd? If you cancel do they go back to original use year?

Thanks!!