Gators at resorts...facts and wise tips

[HopperFan]

Actually, when you rent a ski boat there, you are in the water by the shore at certain times (at least we were in 2014). They take you to a dock at the north end of Bay Lake which is right next to the shore. That is where they get tubes, etc. to drag behind the boat. That is also where we first entered the water.

And I am sure they are sure that it is a safe area. Bay Lake is more than twice the depth of Seven Seas, a natural lake and as you say a dock. Knowing Disney I wouldn't be surprised if they tested and treated the area with some chemicals on a regular basis where they would put guests in the water.

We can all keep discussing the BUT BUT BUT of all of this to no end ........ going in the lakes is not allowed from the beaches. Going in the lakes under the guidance of the staff is allowed. This has never happened at WDW before and appears to have been a fluke accident. Could it have happened if the boy was not in the water .... sure .... but had there not been noise and movement in the water it is likely the alligator would have moved on. The alligator pulled him in then apparently just let him go, he really didn't want him and obviously wasn't hungry.

Disney doesn't want anyone going in the water, so we shouldn't. It's easy.

Disney is now going to have to react .... expansive and expensive "barriers" to keep the people out of the water or maybe just lots more signs with detailed do nots ....

And after this .......... would not be surprised to see the final straw of water sports being eliminated from Disney offerings. Most the boat rentals already disappeared.

 

[elizabethswan]

the photos of the beach on page 6 show so many kids near the water. so scary in light of the horrible events of the past day. i just can't get over the tragedy today. there must be so many community lakes in florida. i wonder if there will be some changes in regulations or warning requirements not only at disney but elsewhere. such a tragedy for that family. never want to see anything like this happen again. just so sad.

 

[fishermouse]

The signs that I have seen at the Beach Club and Poly absolutely do NOT say anything about alligators. I thought the non swimming sign was for bacteria also.

We have stayed at other properties on water in FL and their signs DO say alligators!

no signs telling you not to jump off the balcony either! sometimes you must use common sense.
ever notice how people flock to fish jumping when your at the beach. they jump because big fish are chasing them and bigger fish chase the big fish and so on all the way up to sharks

 

[doctorintheTARDIS]

(decided this was a post I'd rather just read then post in. don't know how to delete this though. please do admins)

 

[amyamya]

It's artificial but it looks like a beach, it acts like a beach, it has chairs and hammocks like a beach, it has a jungle gym like a beach.....you aren't allowed to swim in the water but there is nothing physically there to keep kids from dipping their toes in and everything there encourages families to treat it like a real beach.

They're everywhere. This one is at the Carribean Beach Resort at DW.

This is the actual beach where the incident occurred, note the little kids at the shoreline as it gets dark and the outdoor movie is about to begin. The gator was hiding submerged a few feet off shore and then lunged and pulled the boy off the beach and under. Note that none of the kids are 'swimming' but all are in mortal danger with no warnings posted for parents.

THANK YOU for posting these! I am shocked at the sight of those kids near the water! This is very helpful!

 

[boltjames]

THANK YOU for posting these! I am shocked at the sight of those kids near the water! This is very helpful!

You're welcome, just sorry it's under these circumstances.

 

[oceanmarina]

The signs that I have seen at the Beach Club and Poly absolutely do NOT say anything about alligators. I thought the non swimming sign was for bacteria also.

We have stayed at other properties on water in FL and their signs DO say alligators!

Let's be real.

First off, it was 9:00 at night and he's 2. It's not like the family was in bathing suits night swimming in a lake. The family got out of the pool late afternoon, washed up in the room, gave the boy a nap, got dressed, had a nice dinner. They're pushing the stroller around after ice cream in the pitch dark and decide to go check out the movie at the beach. The 2 year old gets out of the stroller and wanders down in his sandals and is standing in 3" of water which is what "a foot out" would be in that shallow runoff. The alligator sees the splashing shadow in the dark and grabs him.

That's what it's going to turn out to be. It's a 2 year old and it's 9:00 at night at a luxury resort. There was no "swimming". They were walking around on a beach that Disney had no right to encourage people to be on. Because it's Florida and it's feeding time and it's a body of water and no sane parent in the state of Florida would ever allow their 2 year old to be in that position. Disney should know what all Floridian parents apparently know yet this New York father doesn't know and these poor people from Nebraska surely did not know.

"Wading in the water" for a 2 year old that is 34" tall, can't swim, is from Nebraska, at 2 hours past his bedtime that law enforcement said was "a foot out" from the shore or about 3" of water. He was standing in a puddle. He's 2. You realize this, yes?

This family was not night swimming in a lake. They were walking around on a tiny beach watching fireworks and an animal came up out of the water and grabbed the small shadow that was splashing around. The family is not to blame for being at the edge of the water, they get the best view there and it's encouraged. The only warning is "no swimming" and they weren't swimming.

Oh, and here's what we non-Floridian's learned today: People shouldn't encourage families with small children to congregate near water in the dark because apparently there are alligators down there who are hungry. Fools like me from New York might be excused for not knowing Floridian amphibian culture; there's no excuse for Disney.

The No Swimming signage and designation is going to be a critical distinction moving forward. The fact that the sign says simply No swimming AND that Disney encourages activities on the shoreline/beach are going to mean that Disney will be paying out on one huge lawsuit. Had the sign said "Stay away from water-alligators" and there were no chairs/activities on the beach, the outcome may have been very,very different.

Just some thoughts here. The common thread here is that everyone on this board (regardless of differences in opinion regarding where and what degree of blame lie) , our hearts go out to that family. The loss of their beautiful child is incomprehensible, to take your family on a dream trip and have this happen, our hearts break for them. We can only pray for them as they suffer through this heartbreaking time...sigh

I think the quotes above make some really compelling points. I think that a warning - if vague can be less effective ; For example a sign saying "no swimming" vs. "Keep away from the water and water's edge as alligators and poisonous snakes inhabit this water"

What's so scary about this terrible, heartbreaking tragedy is that it really could have happened to anyone who has let their child play on the beach at a Disney resort. I have never let my child swim or wade in the water - but have I let my kids play a few feet away from the water on the beach of the Poly when they were toddlers? (similar to the picture posted above) - yes. Would I have had there been a specific sign such as- snakes and alligators are in this water so stay away from the water's edge - the answer would be heck no!!! As shown in the picture above - if it looks like a beach, people act like its a beach - and people generally go play by the water at beaches.

I think another good point someone made is that as a guest I have been told by different cast members at different resorts - what a great place the beach is to watch the electrical parade and the fireworks. Put that recommendation with people who are from different states and do not know about the dangers in these waters - well you see my point.

A question I also have is I know that people in Florida have gate over pools (I see them as I fly in to MCO) , I am assuming it is to keep out gators, correct?

Are pools at Disney resorts in danger of having gators in them as they are not gated? This tragedy had me wondering about this. What a sad, tragic and devastating week for Orlando, so sad.

 

[WishesCameTrue]

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]

The No Swimming signage and designation is going to be a critical distinction moving forward. The fact that the sign says simply No swimming AND that Disney encourages activities on the shoreline/beach are going to mean that Disney will be paying out on one huge lawsuit. Had the sign said "Stay away from water-alligators" and there were no chairs/activities on the beach, the outcome may have been very,very different.

Okay first DIS post for me and just want to share information about The Shades of Green resort which is right across the street from the Poly. Was there last October and saw numerous gators about the property. Saw them at least 3 times in the ponds next to the walkway that leads from the front of hotel to the Poly. And saw them a couple of times walking to the pool in the back of the hotel. I took a few pictures and would share them if I could figure out how...however, to note there are numerous signs by all of the water locations which have an image of an alligator and a snake and says to not go near the water because it is a natural habitat. Also says do not feed them and basically beware of alligators. I must admit because of the signs we didn't get off the pathways and the specific warning did make us more vigilant.

Also to note, we were on the first floor and had a snake come onto our patio. Someone came very quickly and used a spray to make the snake unwrap itself from the chair and leave. The person who did this said the snake was wanting to get in the air conditioned room (we had shut the patio door just in time). I had not stayed at this resort for a few years (was at Contemporary year before) and forgot just how much wildlife there is in the area. Staying there again this October and will be super vigilant about gators in particular.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

It's artificial but it looks like a beach, it acts like a beach, it has chairs and hammocks like a beach, it has a jungle gym like a beach.....you aren't allowed to swim in the water but there is nothing physically there to keep kids from dipping their toes in and everything there encourages families to treat it like a real beach.

They're everywhere. This one is at the Carribean Beach Resort at DW.

This is the actual beach where the incident occurred, note the little kids at the shoreline as it gets dark and the outdoor movie is about to begin. The gator was hiding submerged a few feet off shore and then lunged and pulled the boy off the beach and under. Note that none of the kids are 'swimming' but all are in mortal danger with no warnings posted for parents.

Thank you for posting this photo. I'm not even sure if there is a word to describe my incredulity at people acting like the world should know of the danger of hanging around the water when the setup is presented as a beach and designed to attract families to come and hang out. Please, come hang out, roast marshmallows, watch a movie, BUT OMG STAY AWAY FROM THE WATER DON'T EVEN PUT A TOE IN IT! It just doesn't make any sense at all. And people are acting like these guests have no common sense? It's INCREDIBLY unfair. If this water is so hazardous then this is basically the equivalent of Disney holding this little family gathering on a cliff. No one would ever dream they would do something so reckless with the potential for such a tragedy. Yet this is apparently what they are doing right here.

Disney needs to make some changes to these fake beaches. And people who are upset about the "overreaction"? You can't have it both ways. Either this type of event is so uncommon because only one fatality has occurred in the last 45 years OR the water is OBVIOUSLY dangerous because its Florida (duh!) and there's alligators around every corner and in every puddle of water. If the latter is the case, then Disney should not be recreating beaches and trying to attract families to such a potentially dangerous area. Period.

 

[manning]

I would suggest guest stop feeding ALL wild animals and birds they see on property. Actually, stop feeding them at home too! You are not helping the animal in any way by feeding it.

MsA

I got a good laugh one time. Was standing on the bridge at Beach Club DVC. There was a guy there with his child throwing food down to the gator. I informed him there was a law in Florida against feeding gators. The guy say " I'm from New York it doesn't apply to me" The guy on the other side taps him on the shoulder informing him it does apply to him while at the same time showing his badge. I don't know if he was police or wild life. I didn't stick around....poetic justice.

 

[minnie mum]

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]
Okay first DIS post for me and just want to share information about The Shades of Green resort which is right across the street from the Poly. Was there last October and saw numerous gators about the property. Saw them at least 3 times in the ponds next to the walkway that leads from the front of hotel to the Poly. And saw them a couple of times walking to the pool in the back of the hotel. I took a few pictures and would share them if I could figure out how...however, to note there are numerous signs by all of the water locations which have an image of an alligator and a snake and says to not go near the water because it is a natural habitat. Also says do not feed them and basically beware of alligators. I must admit because of the signs we didn't get off the pathways and the specific warning did make us more vigilant.

Also to note, we were on the first floor and had a snake come onto our patio. Someone came very quickly and used a spray to make the snake unwrap itself from the chair and leave. The person who did this said the snake was wanting to get in the air conditioned room (we had shut the patio door just in time). I had not stayed at this resort for a few years (was at Contemporary year before) and forgot just how much wildlife there is in the area. Staying there again this October and will be super vigilant about gators in particular.

SOG has always had a lot of wildlife on its grounds, hence the warning signs. It's because of its location. It's sandwiched between 2 golf courses, and is surrounded by numerous water courses. Ask anyone who has golfed at Disney. Gators are frequently seen either in the water or sunning themselves on the banks. As for snakes, again they're common in the southern US. Most are not venomous, but you never want to get close enough to find out for sure.

 

[CailinFig]

This is one of the kindest responses I have read this morning, could have written it myself. In hindsight, we can all agree letting a toddler paddle in an unknown body of water is not a good idea. But I, myself, have made parenting mistakes that could have been disastrous, but luckily they were not. We were vacationing in CA when my youngest was 6, and took the kids to the beach. Being used to the bathtub that is the Gulf, we were unprepared for the big waves of the Pacific, and allowed her to build sand castles in the damp sand. A huge wave crashed onto the land, grabbed her and pulled her down the beach - it was terrifying, and changed the way we behaved on every beach vacation thereafter.

A similar situation happened to us in Hawaii with my oldest child when she was very young. I underestimated the ocean and to this day shudder at what could have been. I feel terrible for this family and what they have gone through. We have yet to visit WDW with our kids, but this just reminds me to be alert at all times.

 

[Funholiday]

I always thought those signs were just due to the bacteria in the water. I would have thought wading was safe. The signs don't say anything about gators do they?

Are aligators nocturnal? Are the searays (the little boats zipping around) safe? I don't know that I would be comfortable in one. They probably don't capsize easily, but a big gator would be really close in one of those!

I also wonder if movies on the beach will be relocated or have some sort of additional safety measures.

I would have thought the same thing, bacteria or no lifeguard. I am not from an area with gators so I would not have thought that was the reason for the signs. As such wading or walking on the shore would not have seemed like a potentially life ending hazard.

 

[disneykelly]

Does anyone have a pdf or picture from the little welcome package with all the info that is in your room when you get there? I am just curious if there is any information in it that gives warnings about things like wildlife and other dangers.
I can't find mine from my April trip and it is driving me batty :*

 

[mustinjourney]

Forgive me for a bit, but I just can't stand to listen to anymore people rattle on about the "do not swim" sign being enough of a warning.

My guess is none of the commentators so far have any legal training whatsoever. Any first year law student would instantly recognize that Disney failed massively here. And it's really not close.

Here's a quick rundown.

Disney runs a business and invites people onto their property in order to make profits. That means they owe their guests a heightened duty of care to make the premise safe. In cases like this, the guests are known as "invitees."

The owner of the land has a legal DUTY to make the property safe, which includes conducting a reasonable inspection of the premises to uncover hidden dangers. And this next part is important!

THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS A DUTY TO WARN THE INVITEE OF HAZARDOUS CONDITIONS THAT CANNOT BE FIXED. Clearly, it would be impossible to rid the entire property 100% of the time of alligators, snakes, etc... Therefore, at an absolute minimum, they must at least provide an appropriate warning that would be considered reasonable under the circumstance.

A vague sign that says "do not swim" is clearly not an adequate warning. As we have clearly shown in these pages -- that warning is not clear as to the extent of the danger. For all I know, they don't want people swimming in the lakes due to all of the boating activity on the lake.

Moreover, I think everyone would agree that a simple sign that warned guests that, at a minimum, "natural wildlife might be present, do not enter the water" would cost very little to post. Spending a few thousand dollars to update the signs is a small price to pay considering the magnitude of the potential harm.

Additionally, Disney created artificial beaches that practically beg families and their kids to get near the water. When you look at those beaches, combined with the water activities they provide (e.g., skiing, tubing, boating...), late night movies, s'more nights by the campfire, most reasonable people tend to view the "do not swim" warning as "this lake is not intended to be used as a swimming hole." I know I personally never considered that there might be an alligator waiting nearby to snatch my child right by the shore.

Finally -- Disney could pay this family $100 million dollars, and I would be willing to bet that the mom and dad would not even hesitate to trade it all to have their son back. For crying out loud, the dad and mom risked THEIR OWN LIVES trying to get their son back.

The self-righteousness of some of you absolutely baffles me. Have some empathy. These people did something that literally tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands or more) of families have done over the years. Yet some on here act as if these people let their kid play with a loaded firearm while riding around on a hoverboard and trying to cross a busy freeway.

I can't even imagine the pain these people are going through. It is worse than anything I could even imagine. Think about it -- they watched their baby get snatched by an alligator. And the dad was close enough to spring up and try to wrestle the alligator. No doubt that child was screaming. This is beyond horrific.

They were literally at the happiest place on earth, suffered what has to be one of the worst tragedies one could imagine, and now they have to live with this the rest of their lives.


Just let that sink in before you decide to post about how "negligent" they were. I hope you feel better about yourself.

 

[agavegirl1]

Where we live, there are no sharks, alligators or other deadly predators. A sign that says "no swimming" indicates unsafe water. A parasite or something else is in the water so...don't touch the water. While the signs are rare, that's what they mean to us. That said...

There is a complicated permitting processing to remove a "problem" alligator from any area in Florida including WDW.
Courting for alligators occurs around April with mating season being May and June.
Alligators do not feed often (sometimes not for months) but when they do, they look for opportunities around dawn and dusk.
A four foot gator is not considered risky to people and the Florida authorities will not relocate them under that size.
Alligators can be in any body of water in Florida including those at WDW, water hazards on golf courses, or swimming pools.
Alligators can climb walls.
Alligators can move very quickly, more quickly than their prey.
If you feed alligators, they lose their natural fear of people.
"Problem" alligators are created by people feeding them illegally. It is illegal to feed them.

I just assume I will see alligators in Florida and seldom do. Be aware of where you are. Stay away from water sources after dark unless you trust the barrier and your ability to run away. Don't touch the water when it says "No Swimming", often there are multiple reasons why.

 

[mustinjourney]

Thank you for posting this photo. I'm not even sure if there is a word to describe my incredulity at people acting like the world should know of the danger of hanging around the water when the setup is presented as a beach and designed to attract families to come and hang out. Please, come hang out, roast marshmallows, watch a movie, BUT OMG STAY AWAY FROM THE WATER DON'T EVEN PUT A TOE IN IT! It just doesn't make any sense at all. And people are acting like these guests have no common sense? It's INCREDIBLY unfair. If this water is so hazardous then this is basically the equivalent of Disney holding this little family gathering on a cliff. No one would ever dream they would do something so reckless with the potential for such a tragedy. Yet this is apparently what they are doing right here.

Disney needs to make some changes to these fake beaches. And people who are upset about the "overreaction"? You can't have it both ways. Either this type of event is so uncommon because only one fatality has occurred in the last 45 years OR the water is OBVIOUSLY dangerous because its Florida (duh!) and there's alligators around every corner and in every puddle of water. If the latter is the case, then Disney should not be recreating beaches and trying to attract families to such a potentially dangerous area. Period.

spot on

 

[cheerupem0kidx0x]

Not everyone has the same "common sense" or knowledge as everyone else. Disney has guests from all over the world, some who probably don't know the first thing about Florida water and wildlife dangers. I am 99.99% sure if these parents or any of the other probably thousands of parents who let their kids wade, walk in, or play near this water knew what danger there was lurking near the shore they would not have been there. Disney sets this up to look like a beach with sand leading to the water, hammocks, chairs, it pretty much looks like they are inviting you to the water. Yes, there are no swimming signs but as evidenced from comments that isn't really the most clear phrasing. Perhaps do not enter water or danger alligators would have been more clear. To me no swimming sounds more like "we don't want to be sued if your kid drowns" than "if you stand in 1 ft of water an alligator might get you". I can see how someone might look at no swimming as you can't go fully in the water but maybe splashing around this shallow shore area is ok. Especially if they have seen other people doing it all day. It is also a possibility these parents didn't even see the sign if they walked down at night. I haven't personally been to this area so I don't know how prominent the signs are but the pictures I've seen it doesn't look like the stand out all that much. It's easy to be so caught up in the moment that you might overlook something. No one really knows what happened unless you were there. Maybe they were completely clueless that they were in any danger, that does not make them bad parents. It is frustrating to those of us who know better but instead of blaming them or acting better than them, why not have empathy. Next time you see someone doing something unsafe speak up, maybe they honestly don't realize. What if someone out there that night had saw them and said hey don't be in the water, there are alligators out there. What if disney, who definitely have more insight into the dangers of alligator attacks on their own property than parents vacationing from nebraska, had placed clear warning signs or at least not made the area appear to be a safe walk right up and play beach where they encourage people to gather day or night. Disney employees had to have seen kids playing in or near the water before and knew that was a risk even if a small risk, why not make sure the guests are aware of it. That is negligent at best in my eyes. If they have a no swimming sign up and what that really means is stay out of the water completely, did they ever tell guests who let their children stand in the water not to do that, did they have a cast member patrol the area telling people not to go in the water if they saw them in it, or did they just let it slide until something like this happened?

 

[mustinjourney]

SOG has always had a lot of wildlife on its grounds, hence the warning signs. It's because of its location. It's sandwiched between 2 golf courses, and is surrounded by numerous water courses. Ask anyone who has golfed at Disney. Gators are frequently seen either in the water or sunning themselves on the banks. As for snakes, again they're common in the southern US. Most are not venomous, but you never want to get close enough to find out for sure.

I'm an avid golfer and it's pretty well known that local wildlife are out on the course. Moreover, every course I've played at (especially at tourist locations), give explicit instructions to not go poking around for your ball in the marshy areas.

These beach areas at the resort though -- I would have never thought about an alligator.

 

[mustinjourney]

Not everyone has the same "common sense" or knowledge as everyone else. Disney has guests from all over the world, some who probably don't know the first thing about Florida water and wildlife dangers. I am 99.99% sure if these parents or any of the other probably thousands of parents who let their kids wade, walk in, or play near this water knew what danger there was lurking near the shore they would not have been there. Disney sets this up to look like a beach with sand leading to the water, hammocks, chairs, it pretty much looks like they are inviting you to the water. Yes, there are no swimming signs but as evidenced from comments that isn't really the most clear phrasing. Perhaps do not enter water or danger alligators would have been more clear. To me no swimming sounds more like "we don't want to be sued if your kid drowns" than "if you stand in 1 ft of water an alligator might get you". I can see how someone might look at no swimming as you can't go fully in the water but maybe splashing around this shallow shore area is ok. Especially if they have seen other people doing it all day. It is also a possibility these parents didn't even see the sign if they walked down at night. I haven't personally been to this area so I don't know how prominent the signs are but the pictures I've seen it doesn't look like the stand out all that much. It's easy to be so caught up in the moment that you might overlook something. No one really knows what happened unless you were there. Maybe they were completely clueless that they were in any danger, that does not make them bad parents. It is frustrating to those of us who know better but instead of blaming them or acting better than them, why not have empathy. Next time you see someone doing something unsafe speak up, maybe they honestly don't realize. What if someone out there that night had saw them and said hey don't be in the water, there are alligators out there. What if disney, who definitely have more insight into the dangers of alligator attacks on their own property than parents vacationing from nebraska, had placed clear warning signs or at least not made the area appear to be a safe walk right up and play beach where they encourage people to gather day or night. Disney employees had to have seen kids playing in or near the water before and knew that was a risk even if a small risk, why not make sure the guests are aware of it. That is negligent at best in my eyes. If they have a no swimming sign up and what that really means is stay out of the water completely, did they ever tell guests who let their children stand in the water not to do that, did they have a cast member patrol the area telling people not to go in the water if they saw them in it, or did they just let it slide until something like this happened?

totally agree.

How hard would it be to put up a rope that extends along the edge of the water? That alone would be a simple visible barrier that would remind people to stay away.