Heads up for Canadian drivers in Florida

[DisneyDaddy-O]

Heard on the radio this morning that CAA is offering refunds to anyone who wants it.

Heard the same thing, march 15th is deadline for refunds.

 

[webworm]

For all those who rushed out to purchase their IDP & passport photos you may want to visit CAA now to get your refund.
http://www.680news.com/2013/02/15/caa-to-offer-international-driving-permit-refunds/

 

[Sue M]

Well I'll let you know tomorrow because we leave next Friday so we're going to need to go get it.
This really annoys me. There is NO purpose to it. The license is already in English and has been acceptable for decades. All of a sudden this is a matter of importance? I don't think my eyes can roll any further into my head.

Passport renewals are going through the roof, extra insurance to travel out of country, passport photos, and now an International Driving Permit to translate something from English to English? You have to be kidding me.

Totally agree!! And why the rush? They should at least give folks a 2 month lead. It is just crazy, ESP for all those with trips coming up Ina week or 2.

And English speaking countries should be exempt. I think I heard in the news Canada is trying to get an exemption.

I just got back Feb 1 and car rental never said a word about this.

 

[dvcdisney]

Same thing here. And if you think about it. It is not that our driver's license are invalid. We still have valid Canadian driver's licenses so I am not sure why that would be an issue for Canadian Insurance companies.

But technically the law still exists even when it is not enforced so technically you are still breaking the law. And if somebody wants to be a pain in the 'you know where'...

That's why CAA probably is probably covering their 'you know what'.

I guess what I'm saying is that the FHP is saying that it's lawful to drive with just your valid Canadian Drivers License, so why would the insurance co question this. If someone gets in an accident, the report will not show that they are unlawfully driving since they do have a valid drivers license.

It's correct that the insurance can deny coverage if someone was to drive illegally. And on that official statement, it says that you only need to have a valid drivers license to lawfully drive in Florida. And that's my issue. If they say it's lawful, how can an insurance co say it's not????

Actually, I just noticed the statement from CAA:

"...In addition, the Canadian insurance industry through IBC has released the following information regarding this situation late this afternoon:

IBC is contacting Florida officials directly for more information on the nature and duration of this reprieve, as well as the states intentions for implementing the regulatory change and the laws potential applicability to Canadian residents. In the interim, IBC strongly discourages any insurer from using the amended Florida Statute as a reason to deny coverage on the basis that the nonresident driver was not authorized to operate a motor vehicle in the State of Florida...."

Hopefully that would alleviate some anxiety.

 

[Maddysdaddy]

My two cents (and considering I'm a lawyer, I would expect each and every one of you to send me payment in the mail, except I guess I have to round down to zero, since we lost the penny).

Ok... my (apparently) free thoughts are as follows.

Simply because the law is not being enforced (and 'may' ultimately be proven to be in contravention of international treaties) does not mean that for the time being, it is not a valid law in the state of Florida.

If it was simply a matter of worrying about being ticketed, I would likely not bother with obtaining an IDP. But let's be clear here - if you don't have the IDP and are in a motor vehicle accident, in my opinion, you run a significant risk of your insurer denying coverage on the basis of your failure to comply with the law.

Everything that has been written and reported on to date simply deals with the issue of ticket writing - the insurance companies have been silent, and the media has not asked any necessary questions of them.

We all know what the insurance companies are like in terms of finding 'any' reason to deny coverage, so for $40, let's call it a cheap insurance policy on your already existing insurance.

I wish you good luck if you want to be the test case where you stand up in court with a press release from the Florida DMV saying they are not going to enforce the law for the time being, trying to convince a judge that based on that, he or she should force your insurer to pay up. How much time and money is that going to cost you (the correct answer is 'years' and 'tens of thousands').

 

[damo]

My two cents (and considering I'm a lawyer, I would expect each and every one of you to send me payment in the mail, except I guess I have to round down to zero, since we lost the penny).

Ok... my (apparently) free thoughts are as follows.

Simply because the law is not being enforced (and 'may' ultimately be proven to be in contravention of international treaties) does not mean that for the time being, it is not a valid law in the state of Florida.

If it was simply a matter of worrying about being ticketed, I would likely not bother with obtaining an IDP. But let's be clear here - if you don't have the IDP and are in a motor vehicle accident, in my opinion, you run a significant risk of your insurer denying coverage on the basis of your failure to comply with the law.

Everything that has been written and reported on to date simply deals with the issue of ticket writing - the insurance companies have been silent, and the media has not asked any necessary questions of them.

We all know what the insurance companies are like in terms of finding 'any' reason to deny coverage, so for $40, let's call it a cheap insurance policy on your already existing insurance.

I wish you good luck if you want to be the test case where you stand up in court with a press release from the Florida DMV saying they are not going to enforce the law for the time being, trying to convince a judge that based on that, he or she should force your insurer to pay up. How much time and money is that going to cost you (the correct answer is 'years' and 'tens of thousands').

There was an interview last night on 680 News with someone from the Insurance bureau. This is what he said,

"Pete Karageorgos of the Insurance Bureau of Canada told 680News that Canadians should expect to be covered by insurance as usual.

“We’ve asked insurance companies to operate on the status quo that if you do have a client in the United States or in Florida specifically that your insurer does in fact cover your claim.”

However, he advises that to err on the side of caution to obtain the permit until the law is clarified.

“To be on the safe side, get the International Driving Permit,” he said."


Interesting that CAA is offering refunds now if you purchased yesterday... http://www.680news.com/2013/02/15/caa-to-offer-international-driving-permit-refunds/

 

[Maddysdaddy]

That is one wishy-washy statement if I've ever heard it. "We've asked..." but no definitive statement that there will actually be compliance from the insurers.

The flip side is if you are renting and have to rely on an American insurer. Good luck with that litigation.

Again, I just can't envision 'not' having the IDP until such time as the law is revised/repealed. Way too much risk for my liking.

There was an interview last night on 680 News with someone from the Insurance bureau. This is what he said,

"Pete Karageorgos of the Insurance Bureau of Canada told 680News that Canadians should expect to be covered by insurance as usual.

“We’ve asked insurance companies to operate on the status quo that if you do have a client in the United States or in Florida specifically that your insurer does in fact cover your claim.”

However, he advises that to err on the side of caution to obtain the permit until the law is clarified.

“To be on the safe side, get the International Driving Permit,” he said."


Interesting that CAA is offering refunds now if you purchased yesterday... http://www.680news.com/2013/02/15/caa-to-offer-international-driving-permit-refunds/

 

[gmeh1]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: DHSMV COMMUNICATIONS
FEB. 14, 2013 (850) 617-3102
FLORIDA’S DOORS AND ROADWAYS REMAIN OPEN TO VISITORS
~ Highway Safety agency reassures visitors that travel to the Sunshine State is business as usual ~
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. – Whether you fly or drive to Florida, visitors can be assured the Sunshine State is
doing business as usual. Earlier today, DHSMV released a statement to media around the world that the Florida
Highway Patrol will defer enforcement of a law that requires visitors from outside the United States to have an
International Driving Permit to drive lawfully in Florida. The statement explained that the law may potentially
conflict with an international treaty.
The Department understands the concerns of the international community and is working with its partners to
ensure that visitors are not inconvenienced. Visit Florida, AAA, Canada Automobile Association and law
enforcement agencies around the state are helping DHSMV get the message out that Florida’s doors and
roadways are open as usual to all visitors.
The Department will be working with the Florida Legislature in the coming months to ensure that the law
reflects Florida’s rich history of welcoming our friends from around the world to the Sunshine State.
The Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles provides highway safety and security through
excellence in service, education and enforcement. The Department is leading the way to a safer Florida through
the efficient and professional execution of its core mission: the issuance of driver licenses, vehicle tags and
titles and operation of the Florida Highway Patrol. To learn more about DHSMV and the services offered, visit
www.flhsmv.gov, follow us on Twitter at @FDHSMV or find us on Facebook.
###

 

[biggroofy]

So international driver permit "not required"?

We are heading there in March.

 

[CanuckTraveller]

After reading all these threads, I'm going to talk to my insurance broker and get something in writing before getting the IDP.
The spirit of the law and the actual consequences are two different things.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

After reading all these threads, I'm going to talk to my insurance broker and get something in writing before getting the IDP.
The spirit of the law and the actual consequences are two different things.

The IDP is not necessary as the Florida law is not enforceable. It is contrary the the 1949 Geneva Convention signed by the federal government of the USA. States cannot put laws into place which are contrary to treaties signed by the federal government.

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[RoyalCanadian]

Simply because the law is not being enforced (and 'may' ultimately be proven to be in contravention of international treaties) does not mean that for the time being, it is not a valid law in the state of Florida.

Actually, that is exactly what it means. The law is not enforceable because it is contrary to the 1949 Geneva Convention. The only purpose of an International Drivers Permit is to translate your drivers license into the local language. In this case, English to English.

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[vacation_junkie]

Thanks for the heads up! I found several sites but here is a link from the Florida Department of Highway Safety: http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/idp.html

Also, here is info on the visitflorida site: http://www.visitflorida.com/uk/articles/florida-frequently-asked-questions

Here is the text found about halfway down the above page:

Take note if you reside outside the United States and will be visiting Florida as of January 1, 2013. A nonresident must have in their possession an International Driving Permit (IDP) issued by their country of residence and a valid license from that country. This applies to any vehicle, including rental vehicles. The IDP must be in the customer's name and from their country of residence. Again, this permit is only to be shown in conjunction with a valid driver license issued from the visitor's country, not as a substitute. Contact the authorities in your country who issued your driver's license, or the motoring association there, to find out how to obtain an IDP. A listing of associations in foreign countries authorized to issue an IDP is provided for your reference, courtesy of the American Automobile Association (AAA).

We were just in Florida and rented a car pre and post cruise..neither rental place even mentioned this. We only found out on the news the other day!

 

[mtmbyck]

I called my insurance agent (Allstate) and asked about coverage to ensure I was covered while renting a car in Florida without an IDP and they said yes. And I will just have my Canadian Drivers License.

 

[MarieLightning]

I actually work in the travel industry, and I sell a lot of cruises leaving out of Florida, so I do encounter people who want to stay a few extra days and do a car rental. Last week, we were actually sent this email to clear any questions or worries our passengers might have:

There has been conflicting information published in the press this week regarding Florida requiring an Int’l driver’s license.

Canadians DO NOT need an international driver’s license to drive in Florida.

Non-resident visitors to Florida who wish to drive while here will be required to have in their immediate possession a valid driver license issued in his or her name from another state or territory of the U.S. or from their country of residence

I don't know exactly what's happening and if CAA is trying to make more money off of this? But there's no real requirement for Canadian drivers in Florida.

Now, it's possible this comes from the fact that many, many Canadians 'snow birds' go and spend 5-6 months at a time down in Miami or wherever during the winter months. Possibly this is aimed at those Canadians?

 

[sympatico]

I actually work in the travel industry, and I sell a lot of cruises leaving out of Florida, so I do encounter people who want to stay a few extra days and do a car rental. Last week, we were actually sent this email to clear any questions or worries our passengers might have:



I don't know exactly what's happening and if CAA is trying to make more money off of this? But there's no real requirement for Canadian drivers in Florida.

Yes, that's true as far as it goes but since the law is on the books and hasn't been taken off the books is your insurance company going to back you when you have an accident and someone sues you and says that because this law is still on the books and you didn't have an IDP then you weren't legally suppose to be driving in Florida. Maybe that claim won't hold up in court but maybe it will. Is your insurance company going to balk and say "you should have had the IDP so "too bad, so sad."

 

[Maddysdaddy]

Actually, that is exactly what it means. The law is not enforceable because it is contrary to the 1949 Geneva Convention. The only purpose of an International Drivers Permit is to translate your drivers license into the local language. In this case, English to English.

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Unless there is some update in last 48 hours that I have not yet seen, all we know is that the question has been raised as to whether this law is in contravention of the Convention. If there has been some formal pronouncement by the courts or a repeal of the law by the Florida legislature, I would invite you to post a link to same - otherwise you may want to consider your definitive statement that the "law is not enforceable".

Let's be clear - from what has been reported, it would appear that when the legislature reconvenes in March, the law will be amended to exclude licenses printed in English. Until that happens, the law is on the books, and I for one will not give the insurance companies an opening to deny coverage if I'm involved in an accident.

 

[Maddysdaddy]

I called my insurance agent (Allstate) and asked about coverage to ensure I was covered while renting a car in Florida without an IDP and they said yes. And I will just have my Canadian Drivers License.

I hope you're right. Did they happen to confirm that in writing?

 

[Maddysdaddy]

Just saw the link to this on the main WDW board:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/a...iving-licence-law-sunshine-state-drivers.html

Apparently some car rental firms are refusing to rent to out of country visitors who are not producing the IDP.

 

[Mike2023]

Unless there is some update in last 48 hours that I have not yet seen, all we know is that the question has been raised as to whether this law is in contravention of the Convention. If there has been some formal pronouncement by the courts or a repeal of the law by the Florida legislature, I would invite you to post a link to same - otherwise you may want to consider your definitive statement that the "law is not enforceable".

Let's be clear - from what has been reported, it would appear that when the legislature reconvenes in March, the law will be amended to exclude licenses printed in English. Until that happens, the law is on the books, and I for one will not give the insurance companies an opening to deny coverage if I'm involved in an accident.

Your correct. It has not been confirmed and I doubt it will be confirmed before the law is adjusted.

I get the feeling that the DHSMV is using it as a reason to justify not enforcing the Law. They can't just come out and say we will ignore it even if it was a mistake in the first place. The law is the law. What they have done is question the legality of it and using it as a reason to push enforcing it until an amendment can be made.

State Police, Rental Car Companies, and Insurance Companies have all been "strongly encouraged" to not to change policies based on the flawed bill.

If it makes people more comfortable then spend the 30 bucks and get an IDP.