Na'Vi River Journey - Rider Switch Or No?

[Gina Starr]

I don't usually like to get in on these types of arguments but I thought I would post my two cents. I understand the need for rider swap but it was absolutely taken advantage of in this situation. If it was done fairly they would have got FOP FP for the whole family and parent 1 and child 1 would ride first. They might not even need rider swap if they entered the line at the beginning of the FP time. Parent 2 and child 2 stay out with child 3. Parent 1 and child 1 get off the ride and stay with child 3, then parent 2 and child 2 ride with their FP still within the regular FP window. I know it would take planning to get there right on time and would rely on the first duo getting through the ride with a decent FP wait time and no ride breakdowns. I would even be okay with getting rider swap just to ensure the second duo getting to ride.... anyways, maybe I'm just bitter that I don't travel with kids so I can't game the system.
ETA: even if I did travel with kids, I wouldn't cheat the system.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

So because you don't like the rules, it makes it ok for you to abuse the system. Entitled much? You ARE hurting others. You are using extra spaces in the FP line that you don't have a right to. Therefore you are making the standby wait longer. Why don't you go up to the CM and ask for a rider swap and explain what you are really using it for? I'll tell you why you won't, because they won't give it to you. It is for families with kids who can't ride, period. When the program is done away with or lessened, people can come back and thank entitled jerks like you.

People wonder why there is a $10 fee if you don't cancel reservations the night before. Or why some places are fixed price. Or why using extra bands for fast passes no longer work.

Why? Because some people refuse to see what they are doing. Refuse to see that they are gaming the system Refuse to see that they are in fact hurting others.

And until they are forced to stop, they won't. They are sure that they deserve the benefit that they are reaping.

 

[Ava]

I don't know if I just look shifty or what, but every time we've used rider swap we've had to show our too-small-kid. Once at Star Tours (of all places!) I was actually holding my 3 year old when we asked for one, and they made me put her down to measure her to verify she was too small before they'd let us have the pass.

We've always had to show our too-small child too (although I don't know that we've ever tried to get a RS pass without her there). I've seen many people ask for & receive RS passes without showing a small child, though. On our most recent trip, I took DD4 on Tomorrowland Speedway; we had FP+ and as we scanned our bands a father/son came in right behind us. After they'd scanned in, the father asked for a Rider Swap pass. There was no one else anywhere nearby that could've been with them, but the CM just handed him one without even saying anything. They were in the car behind us on the ride, and when we got off I saw them head back around to the FP entrance again. Now, I know Tomorrowland Speedway isn't a headliner and one person getting an extra RS pass will add less than a minute to the standby wait, but multiply that by the number of people in a day who may get RS passes they aren't really eligible for and the standby wait can increase significantly. I understand CMs don't want to get into an argument with a guest over RS, but there has to be a line between pleasing one guest and enforcing a policy to better the experience for all of their guests.

 

[BriLam]

Chiming in here as part of the "legitimately used rider swap on Na'vi River Journey" party. When we visited in June, my wife and I approached with our just under 3 son with the intention of riding together. For whatever reason, he just recently had begun going through a "scared of the dark" phase and noped out pretty quickly as he also had done on a few other rides that trip. Funny enough, many of these were rides he had been on during previous visits. This situation was a surprise to us and without rider swap, one of us wouldn't have been able to ride later after taking our son to do something else while the other parent rode.

It's not a common situation I know, but just because it's a slow, relaxing boat ride doesn't mean everyone will ride.

 

[10CJ]

I don't usually like to get in on these types of arguments but I thought I would post my two cents. I understand the need for rider swap but it was absolutely taken advantage of in this situation. If it was done fairly they would have got FOP FP for the whole family and parent 1 and child 1 would ride first. They might not even need rider swap if they entered the line at the beginning of the FP time. Parent 2 and child 2 stay out with child 3. Parent 1 and child 1 get off the ride and stay with child 3, then parent 2 and child 2 ride with their FP still within the regular FP window. I know it would take planning to get there right on time and would rely on the first duo getting through the ride with a decent FP wait time and no ride breakdowns. I would even be okay with getting rider swap just to ensure the second duo getting to ride.... anyways, maybe I'm just bitter that I don't travel with kids so I can't game the system.
ETA: even if I did travel with kids, I wouldn't cheat the system.

What is child 3 doing while everyone else is riding FOP? Are you really saying they should have to book a FP for a ride they will not be able to go on? They should be able to book a FP for Navi or whatever else and. It have to waste their FP. This also means another adult in the party will have to FP the other ride as well.

Doing Rider swap takes time. There is a good chance you are still getting more done than a family with this "advantage"

 

[JohnneeO]

If Mom gets a FP+ for FOP, then Dad doesn't get one because he doesn't need it; he will ride later with the RS Pass. That opens up one additional FP+ slot for another party. Meanwhile, the same thing is happening on NRJ; Mom doesn't get a FP+ because she doesn't need it, and she will ride later with the RS Pass, opening a FP+ slot for someone else.

Ultimately, the same amount of Tier 1 FP+'s are issued; one for each guest, so families using RS don't take any FP+'s from anyone else. The RS passes do add guests to the FP line, which will slow down the SB line slightly. But consider the POV of the family. Mom & Dad never get to ride together. Families wait separately for two ride cycles for each ride, which means they have less time to spend together, or in other parts of the parks. Families using RS 'suffer' an opportunity cost that mitigates the advantages from 'gaming' the system.

 

[Gina Starr]

If Mom gets a FP+ for FOP, then Dad doesn't get one because he doesn't need it; he will ride later with the RS Pass. That opens up one additional FP+ slot for another party. Meanwhile, the same thing is happening on NRJ; Mom doesn't get a FP+ because she doesn't need it, and she will ride later with the RS Pass, opening a FP+ slot for someone else.

Ultimately, the same amount of Tier 1 FP+'s are issued; one for each guest, so families using RS don't take any FP+'s from anyone else. The RS passes do add guests to the FP line, which will slow down the SB line slightly. But consider the POV of the family. Mom & Dad never get to ride together. Families wait separately for two ride cycles for each ride, which means they have less time to spend together, or in other parts of the parks. Families using RS 'suffer' an opportunity cost that mitigates the advantages from 'gaming' the system.

No they aren't taking FP away from anyone but they go through the FP line twice with the same amount of people so that makes the wait longer for everyone else. Obviously just one group doing this doesn't have an effect but that's the thing, just like with the same day FP people were taking advantage of, the more people who take advantage, the worse it becomes for everyone.

What is child 3 doing while everyone else is riding FOP? Are you really saying they should have to book a FP for a ride they will not be able to go on? They should be able to book a FP for Navi or whatever else and. It have to waste their FP. This also means another adult in the party will have to FP the other ride as well.

Doing Rider swap takes time. There is a good chance you are still getting more done than a family with this "advantage"

Child 3 is always with a parent in my example. If they are too young to ride then maybe they need a nap. Maybe they want a snack. Maybe they enjoy looking at the surroundings. There's the drums they can play with. There's plenty to entertain the child.

As I stated rider swap is necessary in a lot of situations. The exact situation talked about in this thread is taking advantage. It was admitted that there really wasn't a need for it on NRJ other than to "double up" on FP.

 

[JohnneeO]

No they aren't taking FP away from anyone but they go through the FP line twice with the same amount of people so that makes the wait longer for everyone else. Obviously just one group doing this doesn't have an effect but that's the thing, just like with the same day FP people were taking advantage of, the more people who take advantage, the worse it becomes for everyone.

Regarding the same day FP people, presumably those FP+'s are now still being used, except now those slots are available to a wider group of guests. From a RS standpoint, presumably the amount of RS passes distributed are not limited (unlike FP+slots), and there is no way to anticipate how many RS passes are given out and/or used at a particular time. More to the point, there is no reasonable way to separate out the impact of 'legitimate RS use' versus 'gaming the system RS use', (or even to know if both are occurring).

 

[Gina Starr]

I guess I'm just a rule follower even if it's not an explicitly written rule. I don't get soda in water cups, I don't cut lines, I don't use flash photography on dark rides. Even outside of Disney I don't look for ways to cheat the system. I've been known to tell servers when they leave something off my bill by accident. I just personally wouldn't do what a lot of people have said they do with rider swap. And before anyone says anything about me not traveling with kids. I went with my sister and her 5 kids ages 1-11 in January and we simply only rode things that everyone could ride

 

[Willlyb]

Child 3 is always with a parent in my example. If they are too young to ride then maybe they need a nap. Maybe they want a snack. Maybe they enjoy looking at the surroundings. There's the drums they can play with. There's plenty to entertain the child.

As I stated rider swap is necessary in a lot of situations. The exact situation talked about in this thread is taking advantage. It was admitted that there really wasn't a need for it on NRJ other than to "double up" on FP.

I don't disagree that this was definitely gaming the system on NRJ because it sounded like everyone rode NRJ - nobody actually sat out; thus, there was no need for a rider swap.

However, your interpretation above seems overly harsh AGAINST young children. When we went in June, my family would do something like this:

Me, DS11, DD8 rider 7DMT using FPs (grabbing a rider swap in the process)
Wife, DD3 went to ride Dumbo using FPs

Then, my wife would ride 7DMT with DS11 and DD8 with the rider swap while I would take DD3 off to ride the carousel or something without a FP.

THAT is how rider swap was intended to be used. Your example above basically says, "sorry kid, you can just sit here for the next hour doing nothing while your FP to a ride you can't even go on goes unused", and while that may undoubtedly explain why kids don't want to travel with you, Disney thankfully doesn't share the same view. They want young families to keep coming back. They want young families walking away from the park saying, "y'know, Disney World made it really easy to have a great time despite the crowds" (and rider swap is a part of this, no doubt).

 

[Dumbo7]

Why is rider switch offered for this ride? Is it scary? I have an anxiety-filled 7 year-old that might need to bypass this ride if so. I know he won't be doing FOP.

Not a scary ride. Think it's a small world in avatar land.

 

[Gina Starr]

I don't disagree that this was definitely gaming the system on NRJ because it sounded like everyone rode NRJ - nobody actually sat out; thus, there was no need for a rider swap.

However, your interpretation above seems overly harsh AGAINST young children. When we went in June, my family would do something like this:

Me, DS11, DD8 rider 7DMT using FPs (grabbing a rider swap in the process)
Wife, DD3 went to ride Dumbo using FPs

Then, my wife would ride 7DMT with DS11 and DD8 with the rider swap while I would take DD3 off to ride the carousel or something without a FP.

THAT is how rider swap was intended to be used. Your example above basically says, "sorry kid, you can just sit here for the next hour doing nothing while your FP to a ride you can't even go on goes unused", and while that may undoubtedly explain why kids don't want to travel with you, Disney thankfully doesn't share the same view. They want young families to keep coming back. They want young families walking away from the park saying, "y'know, Disney World made it really easy to have a great time despite the crowds" (and rider swap is a part of this, no doubt).

My issue is that this family essentially doubled up on FP for two tier 1 rides that both have long wait times. What your family did is how I feel rider swap should work. You didn't get rider swap for dumbo. And MK of course doesn't use tiering. I would feel the same way if someone did the same thing for say Soarin and Frozen Ever After at Epcot.
Agree to disagree. This is why I said I never usually get into these discussions.

 

[srwarden1928]

I can't imagine rider switch being used on Navi River. We took my 2.5 yo great nephew on that ride. His mother was wearing him at the time. It was no problem. I think you could even take an infant on this.

 

[Andyman33]

I don't disagree that this was definitely gaming the system on NRJ because it sounded like everyone rode NRJ - nobody actually sat out; thus, there was no need for a rider swap.

However, your interpretation above seems overly harsh AGAINST young children. When we went in June, my family would do something like this:

Me, DS11, DD8 rider 7DMT using FPs (grabbing a rider swap in the process)
Wife, DD3 went to ride Dumbo using FPs

Then, my wife would ride 7DMT with DS11 and DD8 with the rider swap while I would take DD3 off to ride the carousel or something without a FP.

THAT is how rider swap was intended to be used. Your example above basically says, "sorry kid, you can just sit here for the next hour doing nothing while your FP to a ride you can't even go on goes unused", and while that may undoubtedly explain why kids don't want to travel with you, Disney thankfully doesn't share the same view. They want young families to keep coming back. They want young families walking away from the park saying, "y'know, Disney World made it really easy to have a great time despite the crowds" (and rider swap is a part of this, no doubt).

Exactly this. However at some point they will just make it so that rider swap will only be given out to those that don’t use fastpasses. And I don’t think anyone could argue foul there either. I have little kids. I do exactly what you do. However I also can see the other side and in the end if they get enough people doing what the OP just did then I could see them switching to standby only distribution of rider swap

 

[RescueRanger]

Exactly this. However at some point they will just make it so that rider swap will only be given out to those that don’t use fastpasses. And I don’t think anyone could argue foul there either. I have little kids. I do exactly what you do. However I also can see the other side and in the end if they get enough people doing what the OP just did then I could see them switching to standby only distribution of rider swap

Exactly what I have been saying. Disney will be forced to over compensate because of misuse. We can't blame them because people are always looking for loopholes. But make no mistake about it, what the OP did was lie to the CM. When you ask for a rider swap, you are telling the CM you have someone who can't ride and need to swap off. It doesn't matter if you just go up and ask for a rider swap without saying what for, it is understood. If they are fine with lying, then go ahead. It says alot about their character.

 

[otten]

My question is, in the above scenario was there a person in the group who did not ride NRJ at all? If each ride had one member of the party who did not ride at all I don't really see the problem (though it's definitely a loophole we should assume will close) but since NJR does not have a height restriction it would be entirely possible for the group to request an RS at NRJ, group 1 rides the ride and then later on they could theoretically go back and group 2 rides, including the person the swap pass was supposedly for.

I mean I get the dilemma with kids. I have one kid who won't be tall enough for FOP. So we'll get fastpasses for 3 people for FOP (2 adults and the the tall enough kid) and we'll get NRJ fastpasses for the small kid and the third adult. We'll ask for an RS pass so that adult 3 can ride FOP later but the rest of us won't get to do NRJ unless we do standby. It's too bad we can't all do everything but that's how it goes.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I don't think this is gaming the system anymore than having a smart touring plan, utilizing the 4th and beyond FP+, and things of that nature.

At the end of the day, I would be at an "advantage" touring without my small kids and without the option to baby swap. So while it can be used to get around tiers, those who can just have their whole party ride together are still ahead of the game. I think the number of people who are actually aware of swaps, have the ability, right party size, and patience to execute this strategy make little to no impact on anything except maybe people's outrage meters on a message board.