Poly vs Riviera - Help me spend my money

[sethschroeder]

Personally I bought RIV fixed weeks (2 studios) and it works for me. I have an extra BWV (sold 2 others) that are resale. I plan on likely selling the last BWV contract in a couple years when prices rebound and I use all the banked points.

Any thoughts about selling down the road and I would avoid direct purchasing though regardless of the resort and start with resale.

Are you going to have WDW pried out of your cold dead hands? AND you have someone to pass it down to who will do the same? If not, I'm a never-Riv

@167/168 total points (can't remember which in the OP)
RIV = $187/point
POLY = $242/point

I have brought this up plenty times you need to do the math on the actual incentives.

That is a $55/point premium on getting Poly, with a shorter contract, higher point charts, easiest studio at MK to book at 7 months, and only studio option. You do save 19% on dues in 2020 though compared to the 8-10% premium on rooms though at POLY.

Right now that puts RIV at roughly $80-$85/point before it would breakeven on a sale. ($135-$140 is what I see listed for POLY right)

Yes you can decide to go resale but if you plan on keeping that contract for 10-15 years, and getting APs at least every other year, you will likely break even on the premium you paid. Sure APs are not on sale right now but I don't think there is any hard evidence to say they won't be back in 2021 or at latest 2022 (and that is on Disney not DVC).

 

[davidl81]

Poly resale if you are doing either FW half or Full Disney in January. It’s like a 5-10 min walk to the parking lot/corrals from poly, so much less stressful than trying to catch early buses for the races. We always try to stay at Poly for race weekends if we can, but sometimes at 7 months it tough. I would not do FW/direct since you may change races in the future and do the full. RIV is more convenient for the after party, but you still can take the monorail from Epcot to the trans center, then 5 min walk to poly dvc.

 

[RoseGold]

I have brought this up plenty times you need to do the math on the actual incentives.

These are two childless adults who could stagger season passes, I can’t even make a scenario where blue card makes sense, unless they golf every day.

Besides, you don’t have to buy RIV to get a blue card, even if OP needed one, which it doesn’t sound like they do. Plenty of people are buying OKW/SSR direct right now.

 

[sethschroeder]

These are two childless adults who could stagger season passes, I can’t even make a scenario where blue card makes sense, unless they golf every day.

Besides, you don’t have to buy RIV to get a blue card, even if OP needed one, which it doesn’t sound like they do. Plenty of people are buying OKW/SSR direct right now.

You didn't say in your statement though about never blue card you stated "never-Riv". Which is exactly the math that I showed you the comparison between RIV and POLY both direct and how much less RIV would need to be on the resale market to not have you come out ahead when selling.

As far as the blue card vs resale if they are getting APs every year or every other year than it will save them money in the long term as well. If you are not getting APs for the discount than you can remove that from a positive aspect of going direct and its really down to the fixed week. You need to do the math, see the breakeven, and see if its "worth it to you".

The OP even stated

This will likely be our main trip every year

Meaning they likely go multiple times of year (or think about it) and being 6 hours away having the APs may be more of a benefit with additional weekend trips leveraging the APs.

Gold Pass was $719/person (have to see when it comes back). Their tickets in November (for their fixed week) would be around $565/person (without a park hopper) lets add in a 3 day park hopper weekend in June 2021 for another $453 and we are up to $1018/person. So that's roughly $600 for the first year and after renewals on the Gold Passes drop to $632 in year 2 (AP renewal rate) they would then be saving $772 per year.

Now doing very rough math:
Resale POLY @$135/point for 175 points (you are not getting exactly 168) would make it out to be $23.6k
Direct RIV @187/point for FW of 165 points (if they did Preferred View) would make it around $30.5k (8-10 year breakeven)
Direct RIV @187/point for FW of 130 points (since they don't care if they have Preferred) would make it around $24.3k (1 year breakeven)

So even with 2 people that don't plan on any children will make the math work out depending on how often they need APs. They are also younger and potentially can get a full 50 years out of the DVC direct benefits whatever those may be long term.

Edit: This is all moot if they are a FL resident and can get Gold APs.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I would not buy RIV over Poly. Have you done the math on how much more you will be paying in member fees there over the life of the contract? $8.30 per point RIV verses $6.80 per point at poly. If you keep it for 40 years, it is about 10k difference in dues. Plus, someone just got a contract at RIV for $110 a point resale. If you had to sell in a year because of a catastrophe of some kind, you are looking at a serious loss if you buy RIV at $183 or whatever they are selling it for direct. Buy poly resale. History has shown that you can resell it for the same or for more than you purchased it. No brainer. If you don’t have kids, the blue card just isn’t worth it anyway. The only value in the blue card is the annual pass discount — and it is usually worth it in the case of families when you are buying like 5 annual passes. Also, buying poly direct is just way too much money. You would loose a lot there also if you had to resell. And the fixed week isn’t worth it IMO. As a once avid runner, I can tell you that once I got to my late 30s I realized I needed to switch to lower impact to save my spine. Your likes and dislikes will change as you get older.

 

[poofyo101]

I would not buy RIV over Poly. Have you done the math on how much more you will be paying in member fees there over the life of the contract? $8.30 per point RIV verses $6.80 per point at poly. If you keep it for 40 years, it is about 10k difference in dues. Plus, someone just got a contract at RIV for $110 a point resale. If you had to sell in a year because of a catastrophe of some kind, you are looking at a serious loss if you buy RIV at $183 or whatever they are selling it for direct. Buy poly resale. History has shown that you can resell it for the same or for more than you purchased it. No brainer. If you don’t have kids, the blue card just isn’t worth it anyway. The only value in the blue card is the annual pass discount — and it is usually worth it in the case of families when you are buying like 5 annual passes. Also, buying poly direct is just way too much money. You would loose a lot there also if you had to resell. And the fixed week isn’t worth it IMO. As a once avid runner, I can tell you that once I got to my late 30s I realized I needed to switch to lower impact to save my spine. Your likes and dislikes will change as you get older.

110 is an outlier, not the average. I would buy alot of riv resale at 110.

 

[EYL]

110 is an outlier, not the average. I would buy alot of riv resale at 110.

While you are correct that it is currently an outlier, it is an indicator of what the value could be once supply ramps up. At this time, there aren't that many RIV resales out there, and people who are selling are probably forced to do so due to the economy. But nonetheless, the precedence is set... If I ever see a RIV listing sitting for long, I would always use this to justify an offer. Only time will tell, and the Magic 8-Ball says "Ask Again Later".

 

[RoseGold]

would make it around $30.5k (8-10 year breakeven)

Uh, 8-10 years is terrible. Just stagger the passes and then it’s even longer. PLUS you have no idea if you can sell without taking a bath. And this math on direct, non-promised perks, has some LARGE assumptions, as 2020 has shown.

So yea, definitely never RIV in this scenario.

 

[Sandisw]

Uh, 8-10 years is terrible. Just stagger the passes and then it’s even longer. PLUS you have no idea if you can sell without taking a bath. And this math on direct, non-promised perks, has some LARGE assumptions, as 2020 has shown.

So yea, definitely never RIV in this scenario.

But OP is going direct for the fixed week so you have to look at an immediate $100/point loss with Poly resale.

RIV saves upfront and AP discount only enhances the savings at the start. That does help offset against resale loss down the road of either.

Yes, cheaper ways to get blue card, but not the fixed week they want

 

[TinkB278]

I also still don’t think you can say for sure that in 15-20 years RVA resale is going to be bad. If this restriction is on all resorts moving forward and the 2042 contracts start expiring, there’s no telling what the market might be like.

 

[Sandisw]

I also still don’t think you can say for sure that in 15-20 years RVA resale is going to be bad. If this restriction is on all resorts moving forward and the 2042 contracts start expiring, there’s no telling what the market might be like.

Let’s put it this way, small sample or not, its selling way better than most of us predicted. Even I have my eye on one that if I can get cheap enough and get DH to agree will be more than I thought I’d pay.

Again, it doesn’t have to be the only contract people purchase so it may hold better than we think!

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Let’s put it this way, small sample or not, its selling way better than most of us predicted. Even I have my eye on one that if I can get cheap enough and get DH to agree will be more than I thought I’d pay.

Again, it doesn’t have to be the only contract people purchase so it may hold better than we think!

Isn't Riviera taking a harder hit on the initial resales than CCV or other recent DVC properties? My memory could be failing me but I thought they maintained their value better while Disney was still selling them.

 

[Pluto777]

Husband and I are looking to buy our first DVC contract. Early 30s, no kids (and no plans for any), 6 hour drive from Disney. Will probably resell eventually as we won’t be passing it down, but who knows. Maybe we keep it forever.

Our preference is to buy direct in order to secure a fixed week contract. We are big runDisney fans and want to do a FW contract that lines up with the wine and dine race first week of Nov. This will likely be our main trip every year, even if we aren’t running. The option to stay at any future resorts and the blue card are a bonus of buying direct but the draw here is the FW.

Option 1: Poly.
Lake view room is 168 points which isn’t really a premium anymore. The point chart for the FW contract purchase is based on when the resort opened. They have since reshuffled the points and it’s now 167 to stay there regularly anyway. So will get to use a FW without having to pay the point premium. Love the idea of watching fireworks from the balcony. Two showers is a big plus for race weekends. My parents are retired military and stay at shades, making bigger family trips easier should we switch up dates or they come along. The race starts from TTC so could walk to the start and would take the monorail from both the finish and the runner’s after party. The big con is that it’s 42k + closing costs. This assumes current rewards and rounding up to 175 points. Also, we won’t *always* be doing the wine and dine race.

Option 2: Riviera
I hate that the resale value is so uncertain. The fact that it is locked down to a resale buyer seems like a huge factor. My first thought was that buying river is was crazy town. That being said, the skyliner is realllllly nice. We are generally Epcot and festival people, so the location is great for us. Also, the races end at Epcot (and the after party is at Epcot) so the skyliner would still be a great option during race weekend. The preferred room would be around the same 168 point purchase (155ish normally - so would have a point usage premium unlike poly). Would round to 175 for purchasing. Cost is considerably less at 32k + disney covers closing with current incentives. Also, we would care less about a preferred room at Riviera so would consider doing FW standard, lowering the cost even more. Or we could buy more points on a separate contract and keep the same overall cost.

Option 3: we’re crazy for buying direct at all and need to give up the idea of FW.

Also of note, We are in no rush to buy. We could buy now (with the incentives) or we could wait. We have a trip in Jan booked but won’t be back until wine and dine of 2021.

Thoughts?

You have retired military in the family so let me offer my 2 cents opinion in honor of their service.

I just bought a PVB contract (Poly) resale buy - not direct.

So let's start with 'option 3'. As far as direct vs resale, clearly I favor resale. The difference in cost is HUGE, and while a blue card is nice, in most cases you are talking about a tremendous difference in buy in price for this perk. I can't say what's right for you but for me, I wanted the points - as many as cheaply as possible. So let's use a quick back of the envelope example:
If it cost $235 a point direct at PVB vs say $150 a point for resale at PVB (to be conservative), it means you are saving $85 a point. This means on say a 150 point PVB contract resale it could save you appx $12,750 dollars. Enough said. I like blue cards and YMMV, but personally? I'll take the $12,750 dollars savings for resale, Alex.

As far as RIV (Riviera) vs PVB, I love the monorail area in general, and it is no longer just a rumor, but a fact that they are building a bridge that will enable ALL monorail DVC owners now including GFV and PVB to walk to the MK. I do like the skyliner, but at RIV it's going to be only 2 options: skyliner or bus to 2 parks (EPCOT and HS). PVB on the other hand, will give you 4 options (walking, monorail, bus, boat) to MK & 2 (monorail or bus) to EPCOT.

When you mention resale value is uncertain at RIV you are correct, but actually I think it's even worse than that. The idea that any buyer of a RIV resale contract will foregoe a 7 month option at any other resort is probably going to be a huge disadvantage for resale prices at RIV any way you slice it. No matter how much you love RIV, if you plan on going to WDW every year like the rest of us DVC addicts, the idea of never being able to stay at any resort besides for RIV resale buyers is a huge downside. Imagine never being able to stay at a Monorail resort (or any other DVC resort) at 7 months for as long as you have the contract year after year? This is something that would make a resale purchase at RIV for me such a huge disadvantage it would severely effect the price I personally would be willing to pay. Want to keep RIV forever & NEVER sell? Fine it won't matter because as an original blue card owner you still have the 7 month privilege. However if you ever plan to sell your RR you need to bear this in mind when you negotiate with a resale buyer IMO. I know people are complaining about this resale rule and HOPE that the rules will change, but 'hoping' they will change a rule that you are agreeing to from the start and is crystal clear should not in my opinion, be a basis for purchase. Right now this is the rule you are 'signing up for' when you buy at RIV so if you buy and assume they may somehow 'change the rule later' you take a gamble on the contract.

You also mention the costly price of the buy in. However I think it is worth remembering that over 20, 30 or more years of ownership, the MAINTENANCE FEE cost is one of the most overlooked, and significant costs of ownership, and can eventually become more significant than the initial buy in price. While it's true RIV is even newer than PVB with 4 extra years; PVB is not only one of the newest (and thus has a very late expiration date of 2066), but it also has the 4th lowest MF's at WDW - currently under $7 a point. MF's are one of the most overlooked costs at DVC from a financial perspective IMO.

Wherever you decide to buy and resale or direct, good luck and much thanks to your parents for their service!

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

110 is an outlier, not the average. I would buy alot of riv resale at 110.

I’ve never seen a poly contract go for $110, even though poly has less years left on it and lower member fees. I am not trying to knock RIV. We stayed there last March and, although it does have some drawbacks, it is a beautiful resort. We are flexible and love all of the resorts. I am just thinking about economics.

 

[RoseGold]

The plan is to keep it long term (possibly the whole length of the contract), but with no one to deed it to when we pass I think it's possible there will come a time in our old age when it makes more sense to sell.

It is SO important to have an exit strategy on an asset this large in my opinion.

DVC resale has a long history of known values, especially SSR, which is literally the most traded timeshare in the world because of its size.

I am very comfortable with the maybe ridiculously large amount of points I bought resale, because I know I can sell when we are out of princess dresses, and the commitment is not that large. A direct purchase is a completely different thing, especially RIV. It is a huge commitment and needs to be viewed as such. The reality is no one knows the long term exit strategy for RIV. Sure, it will always have some value, it’s still a Disney hotel. But this is a different product than the O14, and using their strong resale data does not make sense.

It’s your money and your priorities, so buy what you want. But the least commitment purchase is Poly resale.

 

[Turn the Page]

I also still don’t think you can say for sure that in 15-20 years RVA resale is going to be bad. If this restriction is on all resorts moving forward and the 2042 contracts start expiring, there’s no telling what the market might be like.

This. I have been arguing this for months now. I don't even think we need to wait until 2042 to start seeing it.

There are a TON of contracts expiring in 2042. In around 10 years your choices in the EPCOT area are going to be a restricted RIV resale with 40 years and BCV or BWV with a whopping 10 years left. At that point being restricted to RIV doesn't look so bad. I'm frankly surprised BCV hasn't started dropping yet.

 

[Sandisw]

Isn't Riviera taking a harder hit on the initial resales than CCV or other recent DVC properties? My memory could be failing me but I thought they maintained their value better while Disney was still selling them.

Maybe, but given the restrictions, it’s much higher than most expected last year,

My point is that people love the resort and what it has to offer. They are buying it direct, and resale for a decent amount,

Again, for owners who have points that trade, getting it for less than direct to stay there is worth it for many.

Last year, I said I wouldn’t buy resale for $50/point. Now, I would if I can get it around $120 because I absolutely love the place and have only visited.

 

[Turn the Page]

I do find it interesting that the prevailing wisdom is to buy where you want to stay because trading out at 7 months is far from guaranteed and if you can't ever switch you need to be happy staying at your home resort and now the idea of being locked into a particular home resort is considered such a disadvantage.

 

[CaliAdventurer]

Last week I would not have replied as there is lots of sound advice above. BUT, we went to Topolinos Terrace the other night and afterwards I changed an upcoming reservation that I was so excited to get at Riviera to Boardwalk and here's why:
The skyliner is cool but very temperamental and if it's not running, you're walking. There is no bus service from Epcot or DHS so if its a storm too bad for you. Though getting to and from Epcot is nonstop from Riv, there is one line that connects at Caribbean Beach that serves many more so the queue from the parks is LONG and we arent at normal capacity. On other trips precovid, the liner was down for storms or too long to wait.
The vibe at Riv was not what I had dreamed. On paper, this resort is 100% my cup of tea and I am certain the rooms are amazing. The pool is small and there is something about the place that just misses.
Adding to that, we ate at Topolinos Terrace and the food was as good as any of the best on property but the ambiance is like a hotel restaurant in any convention city. Idk if the tables are undressed because of Covid and I assume they are, but it just felt meh. It has the ingredients of a Cali Grill but not the X Factor.

I would figure its just my high expectations except my husband had no expectations and pays no attention to DVC and he had the same thoughts. My 9yo daughter for what its worth cant wait to eat at Topolinos again, she had the lamb shank.

On the other hand, though Poly has limited room sizes, it has alllllll the vibes and location and pool, and dining nearby, and most of all- the best transpo options.
Bottom line- you may need to check these out for yourself before committing but for me the resale restriction would seal the deal for a Poly purchase.

GL!

 

[Ruttangel]

The vibe at Riv was not what I had dreamed....... there is something about the place that just misses.

I know I’m like a stuck record but this is what a lot of people think...........
Why did they choose this theming, it’s just not Disney enough. Could argue the same for other DVC resorts but this was a brand new creation with the intellect of hundreds of imagineers. It doesn’t capture the heart in a way it should.

That’s before the issues on Location, transportation, resale, dues, point charts.

I mean how hard is it to sell DVC?, I could do better than this.

I think my overriding emotion is disappointment....sigh!