Polynesian CRUSHING Copper Creek in direct sales

That reports only the month of March, which is after the 75 point minimum had been set. I am sure there were many, many more 25-50 point contracts that sold in February, before the 75 point minimum went into effect.
CCV is selling, but that same report shows that the first quarter is only 6% better than their previous best in 2011.
FYI: 118 25-point deeds were sold in February 2018 compared to the 186 25-point deeds that were sold in March 2018. Of course, there is usually a 10-day to 25-day delay between a deed being purchased and its recording with the Orange County Comptroller. Thus, its difficult to know exactly how many deeds were actually sold before the 75-point requirement was implemented on February 25, 2018.

By the way, in the first quarter of 2011 Disney was actively marketing three resorts located at Walt Disney World. Bay Lake Tower and Animal Kingdom Villas sales were still going on, and Disney was resuming its marketing efforts for Saratoga Springs Resort. The combination of these three resorts help Disney record very strong sales for the first quarter of 2011.
 
By the way, in the first quarter of 2011 Disney was actively marketing three resorts located at Walt Disney World. Bay Lake Tower and Animal Kingdom Villas sales were still going on, and Disney was resuming its marketing efforts for Saratoga Springs Resort. The combination of these three resorts help Disney record very strong sales for the first quarter of 2011.

They are currently actively marketing just CCV, though. If people were truly in love with the Wilderness Lodge specifically, then we would be seeing much higher resale prices on BRV. Many of those buying in direct right now are doing so because 1.) the economy is still doing well, 2.) lots of growth is coming to Disney World over the coming three years, and 3.) CCV is the only thing being offered to them at this current time. I am sure there are some who are buying there because it fits their specific needs, but many others are being sold on being able to book elsewhere at 7 months.
 
I have to disagree with you here. As a direct buyer we were told over and over by our guide perks are not guaranteed and can altogether disappear. Also, it isn’t like the guides lead you to believe that direct is the only option. At least ours didn’t. I can see where some may never have known about resale but you will always have consumers that never do their homework. CCV is a pretty great resort and if you want that as a home resort you pretty much have to buy direct or wait for stripped out contracts to start popping up.
The guides are individuals. Some are thorough and truly honest, some not as thorough and some purposefully misleading with a few who outright lie. As a group they are likely the best in the industry in terms of honesty and thoroughness but there are many examples of obviously purposefully misleading statements. An example would be that many have been told if they buy resale they will be limited to their home resort only. Another example is that often retail buyers are mislead in thinking that getting anything at 7 months out is not difficult or is a given.
 
They are currently actively marketing just CCV, though. If people were truly in love with the Wilderness Lodge specifically, then we would be seeing much higher resale prices on BRV.
If someone was trying to explain the pricing of Boulder Ridge on the resale market, that could be a good working hypothesis. However, another hypothesis might be that buyers who are "truly in love" with Wilderness Lodge see better value with Copper Creek than with the older resort. BRV will expire in less than 24 years, while Copper Creek won't expire in 50 years, and Copper Creek offers Grand Villas and Cabins, while BRV does not. It might be that buyers find BRV deeds on the resale market, but discover they are often stripped of points, which reduces the value of these deeds. On the other hand, directly purchased deeds always come with a full current allotment of points that can be used right away. Thus, the very presence of Copper Creek could be undermining demand for Boulder Ridge.
 


That reports only the month of March, which is after the 75 point minimum had been set. I am sure there were many, many more 25-50 point contracts that sold in February, before the 75 point minimum went into effect.

As wdrl indicated, the sales numbers are based upon contract closing dates. Due to the mandatory timeshare waiting period and normal paperwork processing time, it’s very likely that all 25-point contracts purchased after the Feb 11 policy change announcement did not close until March. And even if some of them did sneak in during the February calendar month, only 1% of February sales were 25-pt add-ons.

I am sure there are some who are buying there because it fits their specific needs, but many others are being sold on being able to book elsewhere at 7 months.

As has been the case for much of the last 20 years. DVC didn’t sell 11 million points at Saratoga Springs because all of those owners adored SSR. And not every BLT or VGF owner purchased becuase they wanted 11 month booking rights at their favorite.

No matter the resort, there is always a mixture of owners who are buying for booking rights and owners who are buying just because it’s what is offered. It’s impossible to make any meaningful, accurate comparison of 2018 buyers vs 2008 buyers vs 1998 buyers. Countless factors have always come into play, with buyers weighing those factors in moderately different ways.
 
Update, 4/16/18........

For the quarter ending March 2018, 676,809 DVC points were sold for the 10 DVC resorts located at Walt Disney World. This represents a 35.5% increase over the same quarter in 2017 and is 6.0% more than the first quarter of 2011, the previous high, when 638,262 points were sold.

Copper Creek Villas & Cabins dominated sales with 175,167 points sold in March 2018. With 175,167 points sold in March 2018, Copper Creek set an all-time high for the resort for the third consecutive month. The resort has now sold 28.3% of its 3,321,966 points.
 
Update, 4/16/18........

For the quarter ending March 2018, 676,809 DVC points were sold for the 10 DVC resorts located at Walt Disney World. This represents a 35.5% increase over the same quarter in 2017 and is 6.0% more than the first quarter of 2011, the previous high, when 638,262 points were sold.

Copper Creek Villas & Cabins dominated sales with 175,167 points sold in March 2018. With 175,167 points sold in March 2018, Copper Creek set an all-time high for the resort for the third consecutive month. The resort has now sold 28.3% of its 3,321,966 points.

Yes, that was the data that was being discussed in the previous posts. It's fun data to look at because there are so many variables involved, and it is impossible to isolate any single one, making it an easy topic for discussion.
If the force driving these sales was just the awesomeness of Copper Creek, then why did Polynesian outpace its sales while Poly was still available to be bought direct? Are there suddenly a bunch of people who realized that they loved CCV, or are they "settling" for whatever is available, and are now in a position to buy into DVC? When I was ignorant about DVC, I took a sales call in order to get a free gift card. The whole time I was only presented with Poly as an option. They didn't tell me anything about the other locations being available for sale. Is that what we are seeing now with CCV, only with more people in position to buy? That's my assumption, but it is impossible to know.
 


o, it isn’t like the guides lead you to believe that direct is the only option. At least ours didn’t.

Some guides. Some guides talk about resale, but say things about how rumor says X, Y or Z, all of which are false. Stuff like "not being able to switch at 7 months," or "won't get home resort booking" or "must wear a scarlet R on forehead and swim diapers in all pools."
 
If you bought into DVC at presale levels at $48/point

If you want to always stay in a 2 bedroom unit during dream season - not the most expensive but gets you any week but holidays.

Say you bought into OKW in 1991 and you paid $48/point for 300 points to do that. That's $14,400 outlay initially. They used to say the break even point was 5-7 years so let's say 7 years and let's add in the dues in 1998 x 7, which is a little higher than the dues per year, but I'm lazy. So after 7 years you will have paid another $6657 in dues. So after 7 years your total cash outlay was just a hair over $21,000, or $3000 per year, or the equivalent of paying about $400 per night before taxes for a 2 bedroom luxurious home away from home unit.

Let's run the same numbers at copper creek.

a 2 bedroom villa during magic season is 350 points. The cost per point is $182/point. So your initial buy in for enough points for a 2 bedroom villa yearly is $63,700. Say 7 years of dues at the current level, another $17,800 in dues. Total outlay is $81,500 for 7 years of 2 bedroom units, which is roughly the equivalent of $1,560 per night before taxes.

My guess is that the average DVC buyer is not spending $1,560 per night for their accommodations. Per an inflation calculator, $1,560 in 2018 dollars was about half that in 1991 dollars so even accounting for inflation, the price of a 2 bedroom has doubled.

But look at a studio in magic season. Then you only need 130 points. Initial buy in is $23,660. 7 years of dues at current levels is another $6,600. Total outlay = $30,200 or $4,315 a year or around $575 a night before taxes. Now I'm sure people will get discounted rates and spend less than that on a deluxe so maybe the break even point is more like 10 years than 7. But what I'm saying is THAT is in the ballpark of what people are already paying for deluxe accommodations. paying 3x as much for a unit 3x the size is probably WAY WAY WAY out of reach (at least year to year) for most remotely middle class people. Even upper middle class are probably not paying nearly $12,000 a year for hotel only on a luxury vacation which is what you're paying for the larger units.

I may LIKE a 1 bedroom but I have always compared to studios. a 2 bedroom is really 3x the cost of a studio because it takes 3 studio units to make it. That is a luxury product even above and beyond the luxury product that is a DVC studio. I'm guessing MOST people can't afford that on a regular basis (or might save points year to year and take trips every other year to afford to take family and friends along). But people who bought in in the 90's and early 2000's have long since broken even and now I am looking at being able to stay in a studio for 7-10 nights (depending where) for about $850 in dues. A 2 bedroom is not nearly as much of a splurge for me than for someone who bought in recently because I LONG ago recovered my initial buy in price, even compared to $140 a night boardwalk/beach club/yacht club AP rates that I compared against. So maybe it takes 2 years worth of points or $1700 worth of dues. Still $230 a night is not that out of reach for a middle class person. $1500+ is.

Disney needs more studios because the only people who can afford the larger units are members who bought in at an older resort and the upper end of income of new members buying in. MOST people who buy in are going to be able to afford studios. And that's why they book way faster than anything else.

I love when folks speak the language of math. :-)
 
I took a tour of the Poly bungalows. (I have stayed in a studio there so I skipped that part of the tour). I whined about the weird bathroom setup at Poly studios. To ME, 1 1/2 bathrooms is 2 toilets, not 2 showers. (It is easier for a group to schedule shower times than potty times).

Guide told me, they had plans to build 1 and 2 BR. Their hands were tied by local government restrictions, environmental things, limits on additional sewer lines or something. They could not knock down the building and build new, had to renovate so it was grandfathered in.

I had 4 kids traveling with us when we bought in, so Poly would never have worked for us. CC would have been fine, since we were booking 2BRS anyway.

One thing I have told friends, is that it would be easier to book CC with Poly points, vs booking Poly with CC points. So if you like both, you might want to buy at Poly. Personally, I love both and my next trip in 4 weeks is CC, and next summer Poly.

In the future they should build 1BR, with 2 bathrooms, that sleep 6. Not as comfortably as a 2BR of course.


This. So much this.

2 bunkbeds and a queen in the bedroom plus a double/queen Murphy bed like the Fort Wilderness cabins...or 2 queens in the bedroom plus a pullout sofa in the LR...

That would be my sweet spot.

But right now 2 brs are our only option. (Or 2 studios...but while we don’t “cook” on vacation, being able to make breakfast in the room is a BIG plus to us. And with little ones still in the mix, a dishwasher is too.)
 

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